Flashbacks of stupidity
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by Change4life 
I would llke to hear the story
I've looked at your posting history a little - that's heavy but now fits even better with my experience.
Congrats on your clean time, please keep it up it'll get much better if the worst of the withdrawal is over. Glad you feel somewhat better, hope you can sleep some tonight
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi again How are you doing now?
So here it is. As I said before, I’ve looked at your history here on SR a bit to be able to write something more specific.
These are some of the things I’ve found, may not be the best order but how they line up in my mind:
• A person with deep feelings (that’s you)
• Long and complex history of (multiple) drug addictions, quitting efforts and relapses
• Sadness and despair over rejections and losses in the past (family, lovers)
• Long and deep longing for love and acceptance, also reaching out for these
• Trying to detach and escape (probably out of fear)
• Lots of self-loathing, guilt, disappointment, anger, resentments towards yourself
• Crying for help but also anger and resentments towards the external world (as well)
Did I extract these things correctly? If so, what do you notice in these features?
Many things… but for me what stand out: lots of dichotomies and contradictions. It’s like you seem to be in war not only with yourself but also with all external reality.
Ruminating on the past, lots of guilt, second guessing yourself, all sorts of dark imaginations, self-blame... you said in the OP that you stay awake at night running these mental activities. I asked if it’s only/mainly drug use-related, because that’s obvious, drugs mess with the brain/mind of all of us.
But if these are feelings you had also BEFORE starting using/drinking…then the above complex is most likely to be a trait combination that you carry naturally, probably a predisposition that was triggered in the past by your experiences and then exacerbated by drug use and withdrawals. I don't have this problem (great excess of negative thoughts and insomnia) myself and I'm really not someone who tends to be stuck in the past or finds it too difficult to let go of it. OK there have been exceptions but there are for everyone I guess. I did experience a form of it once when I had a major depressive episode. Actually not long ago, it started in the winter of 2012 and lasted about 6 months, never sought help (would never do that again!). I don't think I am prone to depression much, but I had lots and lots of insane chronic unpredictable stresses beforehand plus the drinking, that was enough to trigger it. It was honestly probably the most difficult experience I'd been through - I am realizing that I must be lightweight compared with many other people... I really feel for anyone who experiences these states repeatedly or chronically, this is why your thread grabbed my interest. For me it was like a totally alien world and I was so lost in it, again, because normally it's far from my personality. My problem used to be that I tended to live in the future loosing the present, but that's another story. For you, these states seem to be constant reality.
OK, so the story. It is about one of my ex-boyfriends, I wrote about him here many times on various threads because the story fits in many contexts, there is a lot in it about addiction. He’s also an alcoholic, heavily addicted to nicotine, and has other obsessive behaviors. And thoughts. Unlike me, he has been a heavy drinker from a very young age (still active, >50). Originally I fell for him because of his unusually high level of integrity and ethics - it seemed pretty pure to me initially from a distance. Highly successful, responsible, supportive, whatnot - again, this is what I had seen initially. Always wants to be in the right, strive higher and improve everything (himself, others, the whole of humanity), be consistent with his ideals, make a difference, be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone. The constant striving for improvement was very compatible with my own value system and personality, why I liked his, but I am far less extreme. I am pretty relaxed being myself with my past and all in comparison.
Now what came later is a long story, what I want to mention is that he had a totally opposite side to his personality that he really did not want me to see, holding it and disguising it in such an expert way that I was fascinated with his strategy. But unfortunately (or luckily!) I saw through it quickly, and became extremely curious because I had never seen anything like it. Almost like two opposite kinds of persons packaged into one, pretty integrated yet full of painful dichotomies. I think the dichotomies caused him the guilt, anxiety, depressive tendencies, and yes, the extreme insomnia due to the constant racing thoughts. Well, I am sure actually the opposite is also true, that he is predisposed to sleeplessness and then the mind goes astray in the silence of the night…
The insomnia was the main reason why he started drinking a lot in his youth, to help him sleep, naively not knowing where it could lead. And I guess he liked it, too. He got into other addictive behaviors as well because he wanted to escape himself. A person with a myriad of dissonances. He hated the dissonances, though, because the desires that he perceived as his "darker nature" were very instinctual and he had poor control over these instincts and desires. So tried to repress them as much as possible from himself and hide from the world, but of course that was pretty unsuccessful while drinking because alcohol loosens inhibitions and conscious control. Consequently, there were lots of acts that he perceived as “misbehavior” in his own mind. It also did not help that he came from a broken family background, so not very many opportunities for support and encouragement in youth.
And there came the remedy that had helped him a lot apparently, when he met me and I pieced all this together (took me like a year with the basics but it was ongoing). I had absolutely no problem with this dichotomy of his, much the opposite. I found it all extremely intriguing. He was always afraid of hurting me... because apparently in the past he hurt many women and other people when out of control, was irresponsible, dishonest, whatnot in that “dark” state of mind. Then switch mindset, and came the endless self-loathing, dwelling on the hundreds of mistakes or what he had perceived as such.
So I told him it was completely OK; “you can do anything you want and be anything you want with me" (he was never abusive physically, that I would not have tolerated but perhaps my only boundary for a long while). I wanted him to be himself no matter what, I guess I was curious and wanted to see it inside out. It took a good while and a lot of effort from me, lots and lots of discussions and experiences that I actually designed for us to help with all this, for him to be able to let the guilt, anxiety and repression go, experience all of it in these specific protected "compartments" with me. I think he could really be himself quite completely with me, instincts and dark side and high convictions, all. It was amazing beyond words for both of us. He really let me into his mind... I would never even attempt to try to describe all the stuff that I got to hear and see and experience in many other ways. All that deep, far or not that far past that haunted him all the time, and the processing we did together with it. It was actually mutual, I am just focusing on him for the sake of the story for you. Amazing, amazing experience, several years of it. Sadly, there was a lot of alcohol involved.
So what I am trying to get to here is that I imagine such a journey is also possible in a therapist's office, kind of, part of it, but not all for sure unless it's a very unusual therapy experience Apparently it was tremendously helpful for him, and I could clearly see the result. He shred so much of that guilt, constant self-loathing, and anger about having two (or more) different kinds of motivations and desires. Accepted the dichotomies, the dissonances, ideals and instincts and all. Became far more relaxed not only with me but in general, I saw it countless times in all sorts of social environments. He also slept much better. It was an extremely rewarding journey for a while.
What happened though, and this is the sad part: the alcohol remained, and that caused the end of it, eventually. How and why, another story, not interesting here. We also will never know what could have come of it had alcohol been out of the picture at some point. And this is what I would recommend to you more than anything, before anything else: put the drugs and the bottle down FIRST. Then you could explore yourself and your potentials. You sound like a deep person with powerful feelings. It’s not necessary to compulsively try to resolve the contradictions and eliminate the dissonances in a setting that you trust, and within yourself. Overly forcing consistency and self-criticism often leads to destructive rationalizations, and you can never break the cycle.
Anyhow, this memory is what came to mind when I first saw your thread. I really do believe it's possible to work through this stuff but it takes a lot of help, willingness, and letting go. Try to get rid of the drugs first, use any help possible, and stick with it even if you don’t feel it sticks initially, or maybe even for a good while. Just do it. Very hard work, but it’s so worth for the possibilities this work could open up. And it's never late
How are you doing now?So here it is. As I said before, I’ve looked at your history here on SR a bit to be able to write something more specific.
These are some of the things I’ve found, may not be the best order but how they line up in my mind:
• A person with deep feelings (that’s you)
• Long and complex history of (multiple) drug addictions, quitting efforts and relapses
• Sadness and despair over rejections and losses in the past (family, lovers)
• Long and deep longing for love and acceptance, also reaching out for these
• Trying to detach and escape (probably out of fear)
• Lots of self-loathing, guilt, disappointment, anger, resentments towards yourself
• Crying for help but also anger and resentments towards the external world (as well)
Did I extract these things correctly? If so, what do you notice in these features?
Many things… but for me what stand out: lots of dichotomies and contradictions. It’s like you seem to be in war not only with yourself but also with all external reality.
Ruminating on the past, lots of guilt, second guessing yourself, all sorts of dark imaginations, self-blame... you said in the OP that you stay awake at night running these mental activities. I asked if it’s only/mainly drug use-related, because that’s obvious, drugs mess with the brain/mind of all of us.
But if these are feelings you had also BEFORE starting using/drinking…then the above complex is most likely to be a trait combination that you carry naturally, probably a predisposition that was triggered in the past by your experiences and then exacerbated by drug use and withdrawals. I don't have this problem (great excess of negative thoughts and insomnia) myself and I'm really not someone who tends to be stuck in the past or finds it too difficult to let go of it. OK there have been exceptions but there are for everyone I guess. I did experience a form of it once when I had a major depressive episode. Actually not long ago, it started in the winter of 2012 and lasted about 6 months, never sought help (would never do that again!). I don't think I am prone to depression much, but I had lots and lots of insane chronic unpredictable stresses beforehand plus the drinking, that was enough to trigger it. It was honestly probably the most difficult experience I'd been through - I am realizing that I must be lightweight compared with many other people... I really feel for anyone who experiences these states repeatedly or chronically, this is why your thread grabbed my interest. For me it was like a totally alien world and I was so lost in it, again, because normally it's far from my personality. My problem used to be that I tended to live in the future loosing the present, but that's another story. For you, these states seem to be constant reality.
OK, so the story. It is about one of my ex-boyfriends, I wrote about him here many times on various threads because the story fits in many contexts, there is a lot in it about addiction. He’s also an alcoholic, heavily addicted to nicotine, and has other obsessive behaviors. And thoughts. Unlike me, he has been a heavy drinker from a very young age (still active, >50). Originally I fell for him because of his unusually high level of integrity and ethics - it seemed pretty pure to me initially from a distance. Highly successful, responsible, supportive, whatnot - again, this is what I had seen initially. Always wants to be in the right, strive higher and improve everything (himself, others, the whole of humanity), be consistent with his ideals, make a difference, be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone. The constant striving for improvement was very compatible with my own value system and personality, why I liked his, but I am far less extreme. I am pretty relaxed being myself with my past and all in comparison.
Now what came later is a long story, what I want to mention is that he had a totally opposite side to his personality that he really did not want me to see, holding it and disguising it in such an expert way that I was fascinated with his strategy. But unfortunately (or luckily!) I saw through it quickly, and became extremely curious because I had never seen anything like it. Almost like two opposite kinds of persons packaged into one, pretty integrated yet full of painful dichotomies. I think the dichotomies caused him the guilt, anxiety, depressive tendencies, and yes, the extreme insomnia due to the constant racing thoughts. Well, I am sure actually the opposite is also true, that he is predisposed to sleeplessness and then the mind goes astray in the silence of the night…
The insomnia was the main reason why he started drinking a lot in his youth, to help him sleep, naively not knowing where it could lead. And I guess he liked it, too. He got into other addictive behaviors as well because he wanted to escape himself. A person with a myriad of dissonances. He hated the dissonances, though, because the desires that he perceived as his "darker nature" were very instinctual and he had poor control over these instincts and desires. So tried to repress them as much as possible from himself and hide from the world, but of course that was pretty unsuccessful while drinking because alcohol loosens inhibitions and conscious control. Consequently, there were lots of acts that he perceived as “misbehavior” in his own mind. It also did not help that he came from a broken family background, so not very many opportunities for support and encouragement in youth.
And there came the remedy that had helped him a lot apparently, when he met me and I pieced all this together (took me like a year with the basics but it was ongoing). I had absolutely no problem with this dichotomy of his, much the opposite. I found it all extremely intriguing. He was always afraid of hurting me... because apparently in the past he hurt many women and other people when out of control, was irresponsible, dishonest, whatnot in that “dark” state of mind. Then switch mindset, and came the endless self-loathing, dwelling on the hundreds of mistakes or what he had perceived as such.
So I told him it was completely OK; “you can do anything you want and be anything you want with me" (he was never abusive physically, that I would not have tolerated but perhaps my only boundary for a long while). I wanted him to be himself no matter what, I guess I was curious and wanted to see it inside out. It took a good while and a lot of effort from me, lots and lots of discussions and experiences that I actually designed for us to help with all this, for him to be able to let the guilt, anxiety and repression go, experience all of it in these specific protected "compartments" with me. I think he could really be himself quite completely with me, instincts and dark side and high convictions, all. It was amazing beyond words for both of us. He really let me into his mind... I would never even attempt to try to describe all the stuff that I got to hear and see and experience in many other ways. All that deep, far or not that far past that haunted him all the time, and the processing we did together with it. It was actually mutual, I am just focusing on him for the sake of the story for you. Amazing, amazing experience, several years of it. Sadly, there was a lot of alcohol involved.
So what I am trying to get to here is that I imagine such a journey is also possible in a therapist's office, kind of, part of it, but not all for sure unless it's a very unusual therapy experience
Apparently it was tremendously helpful for him, and I could clearly see the result. He shred so much of that guilt, constant self-loathing, and anger about having two (or more) different kinds of motivations and desires. Accepted the dichotomies, the dissonances, ideals and instincts and all. Became far more relaxed not only with me but in general, I saw it countless times in all sorts of social environments. He also slept much better. It was an extremely rewarding journey for a while. What happened though, and this is the sad part: the alcohol remained, and that caused the end of it, eventually. How and why, another story, not interesting here. We also will never know what could have come of it had alcohol been out of the picture at some point. And this is what I would recommend to you more than anything, before anything else: put the drugs and the bottle down FIRST. Then you could explore yourself and your potentials. You sound like a deep person with powerful feelings. It’s not necessary to compulsively try to resolve the contradictions and eliminate the dissonances in a setting that you trust, and within yourself. Overly forcing consistency and self-criticism often leads to destructive rationalizations, and you can never break the cycle.
Anyhow, this memory is what came to mind when I first saw your thread. I really do believe it's possible to work through this stuff but it takes a lot of help, willingness, and letting go. Try to get rid of the drugs first, use any help possible, and stick with it even if you don’t feel it sticks initially, or maybe even for a good while. Just do it. Very hard work, but it’s so worth for the possibilities this work could open up. And it's never late
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