AA and a breach of anonymity
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: the beach
Posts: 37
I am also a medical professional and would be very upset especially being "outed" my another medical professional. I am new to recovery (23 days) and have not attended AA nor do I plan on (no debate but it's not for me) so I can't offer any good insight into the inner hierarchy of AA.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
When my daughter went to inpatient rehab part of the process when out was family days on Saturday. I attended every one. At the start of that first meeting there was a long lecture on an anonymity and how important it was to not discuss things as to who was seen at the meetings. The speaker then went on to discuss a person who was in a field that dealt with people. I can't remember if it was medical. Someone in a meeting divulged to people that they saw them at the meeting. Due to the small minds of people this person lost their business/practice, whatever it was. That person ended up committing suicide and the surviving spouse sued the big mouth. They won the case.
This is not to say that people should sue if their name is mentioned. It's meant to convey that people need to think about the repercussions before they open their mouth. What is no big deal to some might be very negatively life changing for others. You might not care who knows but it's not your right to think that others feel the same.
This is not to say that people should sue if their name is mentioned. It's meant to convey that people need to think about the repercussions before they open their mouth. What is no big deal to some might be very negatively life changing for others. You might not care who knows but it's not your right to think that others feel the same.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
many ways to look at it.
wanna hear someone say they saw ya at the doors of an AA meeting or stumbling out the doors of a bar?
but I understand a lil being new to it all.i was there and got all jacked up when someone would come up to me and say," I heard you went to such and such meeting."
what helped me understand what was happening-in me- was working the steps. it was fear. I was afraid of word getting out, and found out it was pretty crazy for me to be afraid of people finding out I was getting help for myself.
you could take this to a meeting the woman is attending and bring it up, but what would the motive be? if its an,"ill show you" or"she'll learn a lesson" attitude that's prolly not good.some people, no matter what, just wont care. some truly are sicker than others and that isn't determined by length of sobriety.also not limited to AA. theres sick people outside of AA,too.
it seems to me the more grown up, responsible thing to do would be taking it to her one on one and asking her about it. maybe ask what anonymity means to her?
being in the profession you are, you may also want to look into caduceus meetings:
https://www.idaa.org/
you may also want to ask that MD/former patient ya ran into if he knows of any caduceus meetings or meetings for professionals.
wanna hear someone say they saw ya at the doors of an AA meeting or stumbling out the doors of a bar?
but I understand a lil being new to it all.i was there and got all jacked up when someone would come up to me and say," I heard you went to such and such meeting."
what helped me understand what was happening-in me- was working the steps. it was fear. I was afraid of word getting out, and found out it was pretty crazy for me to be afraid of people finding out I was getting help for myself.
you could take this to a meeting the woman is attending and bring it up, but what would the motive be? if its an,"ill show you" or"she'll learn a lesson" attitude that's prolly not good.some people, no matter what, just wont care. some truly are sicker than others and that isn't determined by length of sobriety.also not limited to AA. theres sick people outside of AA,too.
it seems to me the more grown up, responsible thing to do would be taking it to her one on one and asking her about it. maybe ask what anonymity means to her?
being in the profession you are, you may also want to look into caduceus meetings:
https://www.idaa.org/
you may also want to ask that MD/former patient ya ran into if he knows of any caduceus meetings or meetings for professionals.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
Truth be known, I'd rather have someone speak my name walking upright from a AA meeting then, staggering out of a bar at closing time.....
Some call this a disease. Should you mention you have cancer, you get a sympathetic ear. You mention you're an alcoholic, some people tend to distance themselves like it's a communicable disease.
I understand, my body develops a craving for more alcohol once I have a drink. Of all the disease I could be afflicted with, I'm grateful it's alcoholism .
Some call this a disease. Should you mention you have cancer, you get a sympathetic ear. You mention you're an alcoholic, some people tend to distance themselves like it's a communicable disease.
I understand, my body develops a craving for more alcohol once I have a drink. Of all the disease I could be afflicted with, I'm grateful it's alcoholism .
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Right there with you. I've told people who asked how I quit exactly what I did. If it makes them feel uncomfortable or negative that's their problem. Then again I don't have a career where people would question my capabilities because I'm an alcoholic.
I don't have to give medical advice to people or hold a scalpel. I don't fly commercial airliners or a cruise ship. My daily decisions don't have an affect on whether others live or die. So I can see someone who is in that position not wanting their name out there.
I don't have to give medical advice to people or hold a scalpel. I don't fly commercial airliners or a cruise ship. My daily decisions don't have an affect on whether others live or die. So I can see someone who is in that position not wanting their name out there.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,996
Thanks to everyone who responded further.
I guess it's the fear and shame factor, more than I care to accept. I was in the mental health field. I was very good at my work. But it took its toll on me. I got burnt out. I suppose I imagine others, former patients especially perceiving that I had everything together. Far from it. I spiralled into alcoholism on the death of my husband and quitting work.
I just don't understand that woman's motivation in telling another person about me. Who knows? I'm just sinking and so sad to feel this way at almost a year. I've worked hard, I think I'm strong and determined. What am I doing wrong? I can't post a happy one year post, because I'm not happy!
I guess it's the fear and shame factor, more than I care to accept. I was in the mental health field. I was very good at my work. But it took its toll on me. I got burnt out. I suppose I imagine others, former patients especially perceiving that I had everything together. Far from it. I spiralled into alcoholism on the death of my husband and quitting work.
I just don't understand that woman's motivation in telling another person about me. Who knows? I'm just sinking and so sad to feel this way at almost a year. I've worked hard, I think I'm strong and determined. What am I doing wrong? I can't post a happy one year post, because I'm not happy!
Last edited by Dee74; 06-29-2014 at 04:47 PM.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
This thread is of tremendous interest of me for a variety of reasons. 1. Because it is yours Leshar. 2. Because I attended my first AA meeting since 2007 only hours ago with my sister and 3. Because of the whole confidentiality/shame thing.
How sad it is that doctors, surgeons, airline pilots, educators, psychiatrists, etc are free to practice in raging addiction but it is their recovery that jeopardizes their career. I used to manage a corporate location for a large weight loss chain. In our training I learned that we are not allowed to admit persons with admitted alcohol or drug problems (no alcoholics or addicts). How ironic as the majority of my clientele were food addicts. At the time, I was terrified my former membership in AA would somehow leak out and I would lose my job. It never did. Here I was coaching clients about restraint when I was pounding back a bottle of wine everynight.
Today, although I was bringing my sister "as support" (and my own curiosity should I want to again add this to my recovery plan)...I could not deny the fear I felt about being "spotted" attending this meeting.
When I had my centrally located "weight loss" store with its big huge giant lit up sign in a busy plaza..I don't know how many people told me how HARD it was to walk through those doors the first time..to admit THEIR problem. One told me she had sat in her car half a dozen times and drove away before she finally entered.
I dunno what I'm trying to get at here Leshar. I wish I knew. What is it that is really troubling you. You were outed to your professional peers all struggling with the same issue? Is it the confidentially that is really "eating" you...or the shame? I say that not in any sort of judgemental way...
As I am battling my own shame or want of anonymity for my recovery. And should I? I know now I would NEVER have lost my job previously had my former membership in AA been discovered. I don't think it would have been legal really.
I too am struggling with whether or not I will return to AA (for a variety of reasons)...but I gotta say I did enjoy the fellowship there..some of the things I heard. They called on me to speak (argh). I felt on the spot so not being comfortable with saying I am alcoholic..I identified as an "addict". I am more than just an alcoholic and my issues are not limited to alcoholism. I struggle with "addiction" in other formats.
I'm just rambling here...I'm sorry. I want to proud of "recovery"...I don't have issue telling anyone the addictions I struggle with..but for some terrible reason...it is an AA identity that freaks me out. And that's just really, really sad.
Sorry this is so long...I don't even know what I am TRYING to say..
I think I would wear an "in recovery" t-shirt before I would wear an "AA" one...and it has something to do with shame..something dark..something secret..that I don't like.
As far as the question at hand. From a psychological perspective, it is healthiest to speak to the person you have issue with don't you think? That is honest and true and circumvents triangulation...which is what occurred with the other aspect you divulged to you. It's all just kind of wrong in that way..I think.
It should be out in the open..to be clean.
How sad it is that doctors, surgeons, airline pilots, educators, psychiatrists, etc are free to practice in raging addiction but it is their recovery that jeopardizes their career. I used to manage a corporate location for a large weight loss chain. In our training I learned that we are not allowed to admit persons with admitted alcohol or drug problems (no alcoholics or addicts). How ironic as the majority of my clientele were food addicts. At the time, I was terrified my former membership in AA would somehow leak out and I would lose my job. It never did. Here I was coaching clients about restraint when I was pounding back a bottle of wine everynight.
Today, although I was bringing my sister "as support" (and my own curiosity should I want to again add this to my recovery plan)...I could not deny the fear I felt about being "spotted" attending this meeting.
When I had my centrally located "weight loss" store with its big huge giant lit up sign in a busy plaza..I don't know how many people told me how HARD it was to walk through those doors the first time..to admit THEIR problem. One told me she had sat in her car half a dozen times and drove away before she finally entered.
I dunno what I'm trying to get at here Leshar. I wish I knew. What is it that is really troubling you. You were outed to your professional peers all struggling with the same issue? Is it the confidentially that is really "eating" you...or the shame? I say that not in any sort of judgemental way...
As I am battling my own shame or want of anonymity for my recovery. And should I? I know now I would NEVER have lost my job previously had my former membership in AA been discovered. I don't think it would have been legal really.
I too am struggling with whether or not I will return to AA (for a variety of reasons)...but I gotta say I did enjoy the fellowship there..some of the things I heard. They called on me to speak (argh). I felt on the spot so not being comfortable with saying I am alcoholic..I identified as an "addict". I am more than just an alcoholic and my issues are not limited to alcoholism. I struggle with "addiction" in other formats.
I'm just rambling here...I'm sorry. I want to proud of "recovery"...I don't have issue telling anyone the addictions I struggle with..but for some terrible reason...it is an AA identity that freaks me out. And that's just really, really sad.
Sorry this is so long...I don't even know what I am TRYING to say..
I think I would wear an "in recovery" t-shirt before I would wear an "AA" one...and it has something to do with shame..something dark..something secret..that I don't like.
As far as the question at hand. From a psychological perspective, it is healthiest to speak to the person you have issue with don't you think? That is honest and true and circumvents triangulation...which is what occurred with the other aspect you divulged to you. It's all just kind of wrong in that way..I think.
It should be out in the open..to be clean.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
at this point in my sobriety, my life is an open book and maybe, just maybe, I can give hope to another person who is struggling with alcoholism.....
doesn't matter what people think of me today, I am sober and living soberly.
doesn't matter what people think of me today, I am sober and living soberly.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
Very unfortunate that happened, such things damage trust in fellowship.
Not everyone is in the fortunate place in life or recovery that being outed it no big deal.
Before you approach this woman, do you know for a fact it was she? If you are known in the community, could have been someone else, not even your particular patient.
I recognize Dr's who share my dr's practice. Just be careful
Not everyone is in the fortunate place in life or recovery that being outed it no big deal.
Before you approach this woman, do you know for a fact it was she? If you are known in the community, could have been someone else, not even your particular patient.
I recognize Dr's who share my dr's practice. Just be careful
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by ultradad 
I attend AA and it's fairly common for those within AA to say they saw or spoke with so and so at another meeting. So I too think it may be an unspoken theory that it's okay to share with those involved with AA about others...
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
I removed one post under rule 4 and posts where that post was quoted were edited.
__________________________________________________ ___________
I'm not in AA Leshar as you now - but I'm a pretty recognisable guy in my community.
I can't get away with anything LOL
Just my opinion, but people saw me and knew as a drunk - personally I would find it far less galling to be seen or known at an AA meeting.
If this is something you feel you need to do, do it, and hold your head up high - you just might be a role model for someone else
D
__________________________________________________ ___________
I'm not in AA Leshar as you now - but I'm a pretty recognisable guy in my community.
I can't get away with anything LOL
Just my opinion, but people saw me and knew as a drunk - personally I would find it far less galling to be seen or known at an AA meeting.
If this is something you feel you need to do, do it, and hold your head up high - you just might be a role model for someone else
D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 425
I just see a huge difference between admitting and accepting being an alcoholic? I agree with one suggestion perhaps going to another area where you feel less pressure and can be yourself without being discovered. People talk about other members of the group among themselves. I wouldn't view it as breaking anonymity - only if it is with someone outside AA. It's just casual making conversation. Maybe you make these women feel less of an outsider because you are "one of them"? sometimes we can overcome things that are very difficult by realizing we are not alone. Personally, I struggled with the whole stigma thing, but it's getting less and less that way and more acceptable in society to have drug/alcohol issues. Believe it or not a lot of people admire recovering addicts (I use this term for alcohol, drugs, etc). We addicts are seen as having tremendous strength and perseverance for overcoming obstacles that are literally life threatening. Congrats on your decision to pursue recovery.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
I'm glad you at least tried another meeting, Leshar. I understand your initial horror, but I agree with Jayla, I think.
If you put it in context, that woman may have found comfort that another MD had issues also? If you are well known in town, then I'm guessing people know you lost your darling husband....falling into alcoholism and getting help is nothing to be ashamed of. And you aren't practising anymore, so no one is at risk.
I think I've said this before and it was mentioned above....many professions have a certain unspoken stature in the community that goes with it. I get that. Going to AA deep down May feel like somehow you've failed to uphold that, and that woman sharing that has breached a professional trust in your mind. I totally get that. I think what she did was poor form on that - that she is a MD, BUT....you don't know what place she was in, and your presence may have brought her comfort and she shared on that basis.
Keep calm about it, and ask her. I'd tell her your thoughts on it.
If you put it in context, that woman may have found comfort that another MD had issues also? If you are well known in town, then I'm guessing people know you lost your darling husband....falling into alcoholism and getting help is nothing to be ashamed of. And you aren't practising anymore, so no one is at risk.
I think I've said this before and it was mentioned above....many professions have a certain unspoken stature in the community that goes with it. I get that. Going to AA deep down May feel like somehow you've failed to uphold that, and that woman sharing that has breached a professional trust in your mind. I totally get that. I think what she did was poor form on that - that she is a MD, BUT....you don't know what place she was in, and your presence may have brought her comfort and she shared on that basis.
Keep calm about it, and ask her. I'd tell her your thoughts on it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,996
Thanks again, to everyone, for responding.
Archelon, I'm almost certain it was indeed the woman I referred to.
Nuudawn, I completely understand your own reservations about AA. I'm exactly there. I think I'm more than "I'm so and so, alcoholic" It completely rankles with me. I've never been a "joiner". But I"m doing very poorly, so what else must I do?
Shame is indeed eating away at me.
Jaylaa and Croissant, I do see your points about my former patients considering me "one of them", having similar struggles. But I can't get beyond the shame of this affliction. That's what I have to work on. What's left of me currently without alcohol is not serene. I'm barely functioning.
Croissant, thanks, I know I need to keep calm.
I will go to the women's meeting and take it from there.
Archelon, I'm almost certain it was indeed the woman I referred to.
Nuudawn, I completely understand your own reservations about AA. I'm exactly there. I think I'm more than "I'm so and so, alcoholic" It completely rankles with me. I've never been a "joiner". But I"m doing very poorly, so what else must I do?
Shame is indeed eating away at me.
Jaylaa and Croissant, I do see your points about my former patients considering me "one of them", having similar struggles. But I can't get beyond the shame of this affliction. That's what I have to work on. What's left of me currently without alcohol is not serene. I'm barely functioning.
Croissant, thanks, I know I need to keep calm.
I will go to the women's meeting and take it from there.
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