Cahabr

The answer is Yes, you can. By setting rules ahead of time and sticking to them. I did this for over a year. I'd go out to a bar with my friends and have a drink or 2 and then stop. What I found out, however, is that this "moderation" is not rewarding at all. In some ways it was worse than my binge drinking years. It just feels like constant punishment, and for what? So I can be like "normal people"? Moderation is pointless and depressing, alcohol abuse is destructive. The only rewarding lifestyle is sobriety, and it is fantastic! That's my take on it. I don't begrudge people who want to drink, it's just not for me anymore.

FT

Just thought of something really clever, then decided it wasn't.

SoberHoopsFan

Everytime I thought I had it controlled to certain days or amounts, it would get away from me again. I would go through phases, but all the doors led back to the same place eventually. Maybe some people can control it, I can't. From what I've seen on this board, the vast majority of people with drinking problems of varying degrees eventually cannot control it or lose control at some point.

If your friend can drink responsibly, it probably doesn't make much sense for him to refer to himself as an alcoholic, at least from my perspective. Hope it works out for him.

ClearLight

That doesn't sound like an alcoholic to me. To me an alcoholic is someone that can't control their drinking. Someone who harms themselves by their abuse of alcohol.
Sounds to me like he's got it under control.

Of course you can call yourself anything.

But, by my definition, your pal is not an alcoholic.

choublak

I find the whole scenario strange, the fact that he zeroed in on someone who was drinking soda instead of alcohol, and then telling them, "oh I used to be an alcoholic but now I know how to moderate"... "That's nice...do you want attention? Trying to start something in here? Am I supposed to be impressed or something?"

MrBen

To answer a couple of your questions/thoughts, I see him a couple of times a week, usually. He works with a friend of mine, we have the kind of relationship where we've seen each other a lot but have rarely been alone together. Like, we'll be in a group together but more often than not we'll be talking to other people.

He very well could be drinking more than he claims, I'm not around him all the time, all I can say if from what I've seen he's telling the truth.

As for the "zeroing in" on me drinking diet coke: this is the only time he's ever seen me at a pub not completely tanked. As this is the first time I've been to a pub socially since I quit. So I suppose it would be unusual enough to warrant mentioning.

I don't really think he's trying to get attention, he's just very open about stuff. The first time I met him he told me all about his MS, which I can assure you he is not exaggerating.

Some people think I shouldn't go to the pub, well I certainly don't want to make a habit out of it, but mainly because it's extremely boring for a sober person. But I'm not missing wishing my friend a happy birthday because people will be drinking in the building where the party is held, if I did, then that would be another form of control alcohol has over me. I will not allow that.

Some people seem to have gotten the impression that I'm advocating this choice or even considering it myself, this couldn't be further from the truth. I posted this because I couldn't believe this system seemed to be working for somebody, and wondered if others shared my bafflement. Aside from that I imagine the success rate of others trying it would be very low, I also believe that I life with no alcohol is better than a life with moderate consumption. Alcohol is a waste of life, in whatever form. Being sober forces you to stop trying to find happiness by temporarily messing with your brain chemicals and instead actually do something fun and interesting.

pupkin

Jaynie I believe that I became an alcoholic because I drank a lot. WHY I drank a lot is, as you say (I also believe) a deeply complex matter with many variables that I certainly don't understand fully. Addictive personality--another simplification--is surely part of it. But I don't believe I was an alcoholic before I started drinking. Or even many years along. Had I been born on an island without access to alcohol I would not be an alcoholic now. Maybe a coconut-o-holic or something else Likewise if I'd stopped drinking or scaled back before I became physically dependent. Likewise if you took somebody WITHOUT addictive tendencies and force-fed them enough alcohol (or any physically addictive substance) for long enough.

COULD I have stopped or controlled my drinking earlier? Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to think so, but perhaps I was wired by a thousand variables to follow this path to the bitter end. I'll certainly never know now.

But sometimes I think this condition requires simplification in the end. Staying sober = not drinking. That's a simplification. (Although also very complicated in practice as this entire forum could attest).

I'm not really arguing with you. I don't think you're wrong in theory. But the philosophical angle reminds me of a study once that suggested some patients who heard voices were actually making sub audible sounds in their own throats. The patients' response: "Okay, but I still hear the voices."

Dee74

I think everyone at some point in their alcoholic drinking career will try moderation. I think that's reflected in the variety of responses here.

If people want to drink they'll always find a peg to hang that hat on.
I don't think this thread is anymore dangerous than any others here

I'm glad peace reigns again tho - it was a bit heated there up the page a little

D

FreeOwl

yeah.... I didn't intend to express any judgement - only to share how I feel in my own experience of reading this thread.

kind of a confession / self-insight out loud.

Dee74

I read your follow up post - I just wanted to address the 'is this suitable here' thing for anyone reading and worried FreeOwl

D

jaynie04

See Dee, we were able to moderate ourselves while talking about moderation….

Pupkin, I think the discussion we are having is the same nature/nuture discussion that is hotly disputed in a broader context.

One study that I have found fascinating is the study of the soldiers who came home from Vietnam addicted to heroin. It is interesting in light of this discussion if you haven't read about it.

I don't want to hijack the thread (thank you Mr. Ben for starting a lively discussion) but I believe science is just beginning to scratch the surface of genetic mutation, and I believe that that, coupled with neuropsychiatry, will be an important part of unwinding the mystery of addiction as well.

There is a pocket of study called epigenetics that is fascinating to me. The very watered down premise is that our environment can actually recode our DNA. In essence, it shows the how nature and nurture intersect.

This is the layman's version, which is about at my threshold http://discovermagazine.com/2013/may...-on-your-genes

I am not of the belief that enough of this will be unraveled in my lifetime to make a difference in my prognosis. I am committed to sobriety as the only sure bet for me. However, I am the daughter of a daughter of an alcoholic….and I have a daughter. So I am sure you can see where my interest lies.

I would however, enjoy being stranded on a desert island, and I have no doubt that I would be a raving coconut-oholic.

pupkin

I guess you're right, jaynie, it is the nature/nurture question. My thinking always fell somewhere around the slash mark--the mysterious intersection of both--but honestly, like you, I also wonder about my kids and what kind of pre-wiring I may have outfitted them with. Ugh, the thought. I'll read about epigenetics--I've never heard of it, but it sounds intriguing.

Anyway, I do agree with everyone who thinks moderation is exhausting

Nuudawn

For me it's simply a slippery damn slope. In my last relapse, for the first couple of months I would have one glass of wine...sometimes two. In the 3rd month, just prior to Christmas I got hammered out of my mind. I got hammered again on New Year's. My 2 glasses of wine became 3's or more on a regular basis. I never got to the point I once was. But I DID start to look forward to at least one or two glasses of wine almost every night. It was like I had blinders on throughout the day...just waiting for the moment I came home...so I could have my wine. Not a huge amount...but it was overtaking my life again...slowly and systematically somehow.

Other things..progress ...started to slip away...my life became smaller. And maybe once a week I was drinking a whole bottle.
Events started to revolve around drinking again...
My leisure time was planned...for wine...again.
It was only getting worse..
Then in past while..4 good slovenly ridiculous, unattractive drunken debaucles...blackouts in a less than a month.

Moderation don't work for me...now matter how slow the downward slide...it was happening and increasing in speed.