Moderation???
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Originally Posted by Cahabr 
Based on your advice I would be very tempted to categorize myself as a heavy drinker who can moderate if I want to. I actually did for over a year. What I learned however is that there is no value in moderation. Why put just small amounts of poison in your body? Don't do it at all. It's bad advice because it tempts people to try to moderate. Whether you're an alcoholic or not, it's not a good idea. This coming from somebody who used to preach moderation and self control.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 80
I've tried moderation many times but it always fails.
As soon as I cross that line after a few drinks there is no going back. l no longer care about how it all might end up, l just want to keep drinking. Worst of all that line is invisible, and that's what makes stepping towards it so dangerous.
As soon as I cross that line after a few drinks there is no going back. l no longer care about how it all might end up, l just want to keep drinking. Worst of all that line is invisible, and that's what makes stepping towards it so dangerous.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Either a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use is a defining criteria for alcohol dependence/alcohol use disorder in DSM-IV/DSM-V.
The addiction treatment industry has long known that the desire or effort to control our drinking is strongly correlated with alcoholism. Those of us who suffer from the affliction either know by experience or by the complete lack of desire to drink less than as much alcohol as we can bear that attempting to moderate our drinking is an unambiguous sign that there is a problem.
It doesn't bother me personally that many people hear comment about their sometimes simple and sometimes elaborate and often obsessive plans to moderate their drinking. Though I never bothered to try moderation, it seems to come with the territory.
There seems to be a simple, irrational leap that leads to a distorted conclusion of the mind that says, "If I can abstain for 'X' amount of time, then moderating or cutting down should be a simple thing." What saddens me is that people seem so eager and willing to embrace such misguided and inherently dangerous logic, only to find themselves right back where they were before. Or worse. I imagine that many of these same people would be horrified were their children or loved ones to apply the same verbal smokescreens in defense of their own decisions with regard to dangerous conditions or situations in their own lives.
The addiction treatment industry has long known that the desire or effort to control our drinking is strongly correlated with alcoholism. Those of us who suffer from the affliction either know by experience or by the complete lack of desire to drink less than as much alcohol as we can bear that attempting to moderate our drinking is an unambiguous sign that there is a problem.
It doesn't bother me personally that many people hear comment about their sometimes simple and sometimes elaborate and often obsessive plans to moderate their drinking. Though I never bothered to try moderation, it seems to come with the territory.
There seems to be a simple, irrational leap that leads to a distorted conclusion of the mind that says, "If I can abstain for 'X' amount of time, then moderating or cutting down should be a simple thing." What saddens me is that people seem so eager and willing to embrace such misguided and inherently dangerous logic, only to find themselves right back where they were before. Or worse. I imagine that many of these same people would be horrified were their children or loved ones to apply the same verbal smokescreens in defense of their own decisions with regard to dangerous conditions or situations in their own lives.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by Chicagoan
Any recovering alcoholic that actually believes
that they can return to drinking and moderate
their intake, is opening a barrel of cobras.
Been there, tried that, it is a FAIL.
Believe me!
that they can return to drinking and moderate
their intake, is opening a barrel of cobras.
Been there, tried that, it is a FAIL.
Believe me!
Personally, I subscribe to the AA opinion that if anyone is able to do the right about face and drink in moderation, my hat is off to them. If not, I'm here to help. But I'm not about to call any part of their journey a failure. I don't want to be one who sends them back out to die.
Speak for yourself. You evidently don't know all of my language.
"Always Believe." -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Posts: 341
I can only tell you of my personal
experience, and the people that
I have observed for over six
decades. If I ruffled your feathers
in some way, I apologize, but I
truly believe that this is one shoe
that fits all (alcoholics).
If it were possible for me to drink
in moderation with no repercussions,
I would not even be here!
I have been around the block a few
times.
experience, and the people that
I have observed for over six
decades. If I ruffled your feathers
in some way, I apologize, but I
truly believe that this is one shoe
that fits all (alcoholics).
If it were possible for me to drink
in moderation with no repercussions,
I would not even be here!
I have been around the block a few
times.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 1,022
I could drink alcoholic beverages in moderation just fine right now, but with no guarantee that I'd be able to continue to do so down the road, why start again? I figure that at ten years or more of substance abuse history peppered with unfortunate alcohol-related incidents, lapses and missed opportunities, why tee that ball up again for a second swing? How much evidence does one guy need to support the conclusion that booze is probably better left alone? Another lost decade or two? Maybe finally get that DUI I've talked my way out of more than once, or call in sick after a weekend-long bender one too many times and lose my job and then my house?
There are plenty of other activities that carry a much lower risk of ruining my life, thanks alcohol but no thanks.
There are plenty of other activities that carry a much lower risk of ruining my life, thanks alcohol but no thanks.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
I imagine that many of these same people would be horrified were their children or loved ones to apply the same verbal smokescreens in defense of their own decisions with regard to dangerous conditions or situations in their own lives.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
Originally Posted by jason2
I've been drinking in moderation for about 8 months now. I just barely touch alcohol anymore. It's no longer a part of my being.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Originally Posted by Austin4Wyo
To blanket all other drinkers like that is to negate them. I don't speak for others, only myself, which is a tenant of most recovery programs. While I believe the same thing about MYSELF, it isn't my place to say what is or is not true of another.
Personally, I subscribe to the AA opinion that if anyone is able to do the right about face and drink in moderation, my hat is off to them. If not, I'm here to help. But I'm not about to call any part of their journey a failure. I don't want to be one who sends them back out to die.
Speak for yourself. You evidently don't know all of my language.
"Always Believe." -The Ultimate Warrior
Personally, I subscribe to the AA opinion that if anyone is able to do the right about face and drink in moderation, my hat is off to them. If not, I'm here to help. But I'm not about to call any part of their journey a failure. I don't want to be one who sends them back out to die.
Speak for yourself. You evidently don't know all of my language.
"Always Believe." -The Ultimate Warrior
An alcoholic is someone who cannot safely drink (by this know they can stop / modify their intake with certainty).
A drinker may be someone who can, or not.
It has also been my observation and direct experience as an alcoholic
that I cannot with certainty moderate my alcohol in that I may do just fine for awhile,
but in the end I will cross the "invisible line" someone else mentioned earlier and lose control of my intake.
If that isn't the case for you, fantastic.
Maybe you are a drinker instead of an alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Mare Crisium
Posts: 1,930
nope
Personally, I will have to say no, in regard to moderation.
I liken my drinking to an ordinary electrical light switch. I am either off or on 100%.
Now if that ordinary off-on light switch could be replaced with a dimmer switch, perhaps the amount could be, let's say 25% or so.
Nope. Not for me.
My dimmer switch would be turned up to 100%, no in-between. Pedal to the metal. No moderation.
It's all the AV telling most of us that we can have "a couple drinks". Next step is a couple bottles. Once again, the wretched AV seduces and wins.
My AV is so powerful, that when I've slipped, I didn't realize until the next day.
Thanks for enduring this analogy.
Best of positive power to us all and thank you for being here at SR.
I need you.
I liken my drinking to an ordinary electrical light switch. I am either off or on 100%.
Now if that ordinary off-on light switch could be replaced with a dimmer switch, perhaps the amount could be, let's say 25% or so.
Nope. Not for me.
My dimmer switch would be turned up to 100%, no in-between. Pedal to the metal. No moderation.
It's all the AV telling most of us that we can have "a couple drinks". Next step is a couple bottles. Once again, the wretched AV seduces and wins.
My AV is so powerful, that when I've slipped, I didn't realize until the next day.
Thanks for enduring this analogy.
Best of positive power to us all and thank you for being here at SR.
I need you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,429
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
Speaking of language / semantics please note the poster you are responding to said "all alcoholics" while you responded with the terms "all drinkers" which is a very different population.
An alcoholic is someone who cannot safely drink (by this know they can't stop / modify their intake with certainty).
A drinker may be someone who can, or not.
It has also been my observation and direct experience as an alcoholic
that I cannot with certainty moderate my alcohol in that I may do just fine for awhile,
but in the end I will cross the "invisible line" someone else mentioned earlier and lose control of my intake.
If that isn't the case for you, fantastic.
Maybe you are a drinker instead of an alcoholic.
An alcoholic is someone who cannot safely drink (by this know they can't stop / modify their intake with certainty).
A drinker may be someone who can, or not.
It has also been my observation and direct experience as an alcoholic
that I cannot with certainty moderate my alcohol in that I may do just fine for awhile,
but in the end I will cross the "invisible line" someone else mentioned earlier and lose control of my intake.
If that isn't the case for you, fantastic.
Maybe you are a drinker instead of an alcoholic.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by haennie
I like this thought about it. It's a problem of cognitive dissonance, I think. Different perceptions about alcoholism in general or drinking problem that other people may have vs one's own situation. Rationalizing moderation for the self is one way to "resolve" the dissonance, but maybe not the best...
Without cognitive dissonance, my average daily requirement for rationalizations would fall off precipitously.
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