kiki1988

Hi guys,

I'm back and have about 7 weeks of sobriety behind me now.

I have been going to AA almost daily for this time, and the guys there continually tell me that it is not a religious programme so the fact that I am atheist is not a problem... but it is a religious programme and it IS a problem.

Before anyone jumps in to tell me it's spiritual not religious, please bear in mind that programme was developed by Christians, for Christians. If you think it wasn't, reference the serenity PRAYER, the step 3 PRAYER and the step 7 PRAYER. Christian prayers to a Christian god.

Everyone keeps acting like if I keep coming back long enough it'll just come to me, but I'm pretty F'ing sure it won't.

And I'm really trying. I'm reading the Big Book and Living Sober, I'm hanging out with fellows for coffee after meetings, I call someone when I feel like picking up a drink.

I see the value in figuring out your resentments and what your part in them is, in taking inventories and continuing to take them daily, in recognising and apologising when you are wrong and in finding what you are grateful for daily. I just don't see why I need god to do it. And why AAs have to be so bloody dogmatic about it.

I just wish there was an alternative 12 step programme around here, but there isn't.

Dee74

Congrats on 7 weeks...whatever your issues, somethings working Kiki

D

yeahgr8

You're always pi**ed off at AA lol

Good to hear you have gotten some time under your belt:-)

If I was sat face to face with you I would be able to explain what the concept of God is and how it can only be a God that you understand.

It was easy for me to see past the God thing because I was so desperate to stop drinking if you had asked me to be willing to believe in Dragons I would have done if it meant I never had to drink again.

I do know where you are coming from and unfortunately for you, at some point, you are going to have to trust that another human being is in a better position to advise you than you are...at least for now anyway.

Talk to other athiests it agnostics in AA! Read the chapter in the Big Book.

Taking5

You do not have to say any of these prayers. The only one I have ever heard in a meeting is the serenity prayer. If you do say them - in a meeting or otherwise - it can be directed towards whatever your higher power is, not the Christian god.

Berrybean

I suppose it depends on the mix of religious / spiritual / athiest people at your group. Maybe I'm just lucky in that there's a good mix of all three at most meetings in my area, but there is discussion about what 'higher power' does and can mean to different folk. A lot of people seem to think of the AA Fellowship as that 'higher power' for them and speak accordingly. Not sure what I think about it as I'm very early days (2 months tomorrow!!).

Maybe try some other groups?

Nonsensical

Having disagreements with other people or programs is to be reasonably expected. Being angry about it is optional.

Take what you need and leave the rest.

Congrats on 7 weeks!

FeelingGreat

Yes, no matter what they say, it's based on Christianity. I guess you can find a non-AA program, or stick it out. Everyone has a different level of tolerance.

yeahgr8

Can you give some information about the origins of AA and your personal experience to back this up or is this just an opinion?

caboblanco

if you research to origins, history and current format of AA there is no question that it is Christian in every aspect. There is no question of that within a reasonable explanation. If it works for you then why would that be an issue

just google AA..Oxford group..revival Protestantism and tempersnce

kiki1988

Higher power is just another word for god. I'm atheist.

I'm actually really angry with two guys in my AA group in particular.

I'm travelling to Ireland on Friday for a month and will be attending a wedding. One of the guys said to me "There's a 90% chance you're going to slip there, I'd cancel the trip if I was you" - What kind of advice is that? I'm pretty ******* pissed off with him, especially as he has relapsed twice since I came in 7 weeks ago. Just because he has he's projecting his failures on to me, or at least that's how I see it.

aasharon90

I can only share what has and is working
for me that has kept me sober for 23 yrs.
There are many in recovery that have
found some sort of recovery program that
has worked for them and has kept then
sober or clean.

Each person is wired differently and
what works for one may not necessarily
work for another.

I was introduced to AA when family
intervened on me 23yrs ago sending
me to a rehab facility where I was
taught about my addiction to alcohol
and was given some vital information
and tools to use in my everyday life
to stay sober a day at a time.

I was raised and schooled in a Catholic
upbringing and thus had that Catholic
knowledge and faith to live upon already.
So going into an AA recovery program
and learning to live and incorporate its
steps and principles wasn't totally difficult
for me to adapt to.

It actually has strengthened me spiritually
over the yrs and continues to do so today.

Find a recovery program and solution
that will work well for you to learn to
live life addiction free happier, healthier
and honest for many yrs to come.

Johnston

This ^^^.


Why in the world would you take a person like that seriously?

Dee74

I wouldn't have put it like that guy put it, Kiki but I do think it's sensible to think about social occasions before you go.

Have a plan, think about the likely scenarios you might encounter, and what strategies you might need to call on.

That's not expecting you to fail - it's ensuring that you won't

D

IOAA2

For the average newcomer, < than 2-3 years, and from a lot of years experience in the program would not recommend it either. After being sober for a lot of years I don't like going into a bar to pick up take out pizza and I haven't had a desire to drink in over 30 years. It's referred to as staying out of slippery places. JMO

BE WELL

tomsteve

good for ya to be thinking about it, however there is some misinformation here.
I believe it was the oxford group that was developed by christians for Christians. the founders of AA saw that alcoholism didn't care about religion and wanted to reach ALL who suffer from alcoholism.

daily meetings for 7 weeks. good on ya!!
how bout bringing this up as a topic at meetings? find out what others perception of a higher power is. 2nd step is always a good topic at meetings.
it would also be wise to read and reread the chapter "we agnostics."

I know a man with over 20 years of sobriety that has had a squirrel as his higher power for that time. ive seen him confronted about it. pretty amazing how it didn't bother him what others thought of his higher power.it was workin for him.

theres other examples of this, but the only way I would have known is by listening.

"I just don't see why I need god to do it."
The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.
notice the BB says higher power.

Ruby2

I spent my entire day Saturday angry with everything and I was miserable. I can imagine that you might feel the same way. I just let go of it because it posed a threat to my sobriety. I couldn't change a lot of what was happening but I could change my reaction to it.

The guy who gave that advice could certainly have phrased it a little differently but you can discard his words but think about the message. I knows that when I think of vacations or trips I wonder how I am going to not drink. After all, that's what people do on vacations, right? A margarita by the pool? A glass of sherry with tapas? Savoring the local color with the local alcohol? Or drinking at weddings. If weddings in Ireland are anything like the wedding I attended in England there was an obscenely enormous amount of beer and wine consumed. I saw the piles of empty bottles and even I, the alcoholic, was stunned.

Discount his phrasing and consider the underlying message. What steps now can you take to prevent a slip? What plans can you make now that you will follow? Service but not reception? Leave after the dinner before the dancing? Stick with people you can be assured won't be drinking? I have over five months and I am not comfortable with the idea of even planning a vacation yet. I have a small voice that says "no one but you will know. You can start again when you get back." Ponder it. And congrats on seven weeks.

heath480

If you don't like AA don't go.Try a different recovery method,there are many .

freshstart57

The Serenity Prayer is a Christian prayer. It was written by a minister in the church of the German Evangelical Synod, who was also a son of a minister in the same Christian church. It is an appeal to Jesus Christ, not to a squirrel or a doorknob.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.

Amen.

kiki1988

I repeat, Step 7 PRAYER, serenity PRAYER, Step 3 PRAYER - references to Saints...

Today I sent my sponsor an email with the 12 steps for agnostics/atheists - basically just the 12 steps without reference to god but still referencing spirituality and a power outside yourself - I asked her if we could work from those instead.

She answered that I'm looking for differences and we should do the regular steps... AA constantly tell me to be open minded - so why can't they be open minded about doing a very slightly different version of the steps?

Mountainmanbob

my thoughts exactly

I as many do would just take what I want from AA and leave the rest

I have been to over a couple of thousand meetings
I do not agree with the whole AA Program
but
it has been of great help for me
I have a Sponsor (who I usually agree with) we are good friends after 10 years
I love and respect a lot of the ones in my AA home group
love helping a struggling newcomer
I sectary a Friday meeting -- just to stay in touch

don't wish to forget where I came from

MM