messed up
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
First of all, I refuse to feel sorry for myself. I've done that before, and it is great having people around me feeling sorry for me, it did no good. I'm definitely done with that. I am responsible for me. If I drink, it's because I chose to. If I don't, it's because I chose not to. It's that simple. Of course, there are many variables that influence this, but the bottom line is that I make the decision.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 643
2muchpain, you did the right thing coming back here and being honest. I have done the same thing. We all support you and look at how far you have come from when you first posted here!
Just keep going with it and sending all our love and support over the airways. I have faith in you x
Just keep going with it and sending all our love and support over the airways. I have faith in you x
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by 2muchpain 
II am truly happy to be me, and am grateful for many things. I have really nothing to complain about. Life is good.
"Break it up folks! Show's over! Nothing left to see here!"
I've learned that people who assume the role of "helper" are often the worst when it comes to asking for help for themselves.
The only bad thing about needing help is not asking for it.
Keeping it simple!
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 3,282
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
To be honest, I had a feeling this day was coming.
I am glad you felt safe enough to post here, you know this has happened to many of us. There is nothing to be ashamed of and you didn't let anyone down. You are learning.
You have 43 days sober that no one can take away from you. Concentrate on what kept you going those 43 days.
You can do this! You've already done it, there is no reason you can't do it again.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
If I drink, it's because I chose to. If I don't, it's because I chose not to. It's that simple.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi 2much - I also suggest that you re-evaluate your recovery strategy and then look ahead. Plus, I would try not to second guess the intentions of the people who respond to you with supporting comments or perhaps even a little tough love here and there. You may not have had good experiences sharing your struggles with people in your 3D environment, but please don't use that as evidence that support cannot work and people don't care. Not sure how most people that post regularly on SR could express better that they do care... I think this works well because we are in the same boat with a lot of first hand experience (probably in contrast to some of those others that did not want to hear you).
I suggest that you try to put a good dose of unconditional trust into the comments of the people that are trying to help you here and not question them. Try to use some of the suggestions. I also learned similar things the hard way in my own life... have struggled with trust a lot (I think most of us do!). I learned to let go of my questioning and the false sense of independence most intensely when I once had a pretty nasty major depressive episode that lasted ~6 months with me still drinking and not seeking any help... There were points in it where I just did not have a choice because I was unable to function, not wanting to do even some of the most basic maintenance tasks (while being haunted by the horror of it constantly). Still did not ask for help, but it found me, and I did not refuse. That experience had made a big turn in my views on trust and using external support - I also still struggle with the latter but am trying to work on it more. Again, a very important part of it was just accepting help and using it without doubting. I think it's not hard to have a good intuitive sense when support is genuine and when it has other (manipulative) components in it - I really see no reason to assume anything else but genuine interest and helpfulness on SR.
I suggest that you try to put a good dose of unconditional trust into the comments of the people that are trying to help you here and not question them. Try to use some of the suggestions. I also learned similar things the hard way in my own life... have struggled with trust a lot (I think most of us do!). I learned to let go of my questioning and the false sense of independence most intensely when I once had a pretty nasty major depressive episode that lasted ~6 months with me still drinking and not seeking any help... There were points in it where I just did not have a choice because I was unable to function, not wanting to do even some of the most basic maintenance tasks (while being haunted by the horror of it constantly). Still did not ask for help, but it found me, and I did not refuse. That experience had made a big turn in my views on trust and using external support - I also still struggle with the latter but am trying to work on it more. Again, a very important part of it was just accepting help and using it without doubting. I think it's not hard to have a good intuitive sense when support is genuine and when it has other (manipulative) components in it - I really see no reason to assume anything else but genuine interest and helpfulness on SR.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by haennie
Hi 2much - I also suggest that you re-evaluate your recovery strategy and then look ahead. Plus, I would try not to second guess the intentions of the people who respond to you with supporting comments or perhaps even a little tough love here and there. You may not have had good experiences sharing your struggles with people in your 3D environment, but please don't use that as evidence that support cannot work and people don't care. Not sure how most people that post regularly on SR could express better that they do care... I think this works well because we are in the same boat with a lot of first hand experience (probably in contrast to some of those others that did not want to hear you).
I suggest that you try to put a good dose of unconditional trust into the comments of the people that are trying to help you here and not question them. Try to use some of the suggestions. I also learned similar things the hard way in my own life... have struggled with trust a lot (I think most of us do!). I learned to let go of my questioning and the false sense of independence most intensely when I once had a pretty nasty major depressive episode that lasted ~6 months with me still drinking and not seeking any help... There were points in it where I just did not have a choice because I was unable to function, not wanting to do even some of the most basic maintenance tasks (while being haunted by the horror of it constantly). Still did not ask for help, but it found me, and I did not refuse. That experience had made a big turn in my views on trust and using external support - I also still struggle with the latter but am trying to work on it more. Again, a very important part of it was just accepting help and using it without doubting. I think it's not hard to have a good intuitive sense when support is genuine and when it has other (manipulative) components in it - I really see no reason to assume anything else but genuine interest and helpfulness on SR.
I suggest that you try to put a good dose of unconditional trust into the comments of the people that are trying to help you here and not question them. Try to use some of the suggestions. I also learned similar things the hard way in my own life... have struggled with trust a lot (I think most of us do!). I learned to let go of my questioning and the false sense of independence most intensely when I once had a pretty nasty major depressive episode that lasted ~6 months with me still drinking and not seeking any help... There were points in it where I just did not have a choice because I was unable to function, not wanting to do even some of the most basic maintenance tasks (while being haunted by the horror of it constantly). Still did not ask for help, but it found me, and I did not refuse. That experience had made a big turn in my views on trust and using external support - I also still struggle with the latter but am trying to work on it more. Again, a very important part of it was just accepting help and using it without doubting. I think it's not hard to have a good intuitive sense when support is genuine and when it has other (manipulative) components in it - I really see no reason to assume anything else but genuine interest and helpfulness on SR.
have done that many times in meetings, only to feel like I have been kicked to the curb. Joined groups before and after meetings, only to be ignored. Nothing against them. They were probably people that new each other for a long time, and I was just a stranger, but it let me know that a newcomer was not as important as they say it is. Newcomers are looked at as suspicion not as someone that needs a friend. I no longer look at meetings as a place to meet new sober people, but just a place to hear people talk about how they deal with everyday problems and not drink on it. Making friends at meetings is vary rare. Most people already have a support group outside of AA. Most people come and go at the meetings, except for a few regulars that hang out after the meetings. Trust me, I have tried to join in at those meetings. Doesn't work. Newcomers are just not welcomed. These people care more about themselves then helping people like me, and I understand that. Maybe I should open up and say that I am an alcoholic just like you and need the support you got. These people pretty much run the meetings. Unfortunately I am not a joiner, and they can probably see that. I am not saying they are wrong in what they believe in. It's just that there may be other ways to use what they know and improve on it. If we didn't see things this way, nothing would change. If alcoholism is truly a disease, or not, why not use the current resources to deal with it?
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
Maybe I should open up and say that I am an alcoholic just like you
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
2much, am so sorry to hear you drank again. It happens, but it doesn't have to define what happens next. 43 days is a good way to go, and having known it's possible, you can do it again.
I was really responding to your point above about not being a joiner. Me too, in fact some of the people I best get on with in AA, would also describe themselves in the same way - a friend who is 18 years sober still recalls the fact that one his school reports saying "John does not play well with others" My first ever sponsor too, would say, because she knew that feeling too, that she wasn't a joiner. Difference may be, he, she, nor I, or anyone else who feels this way would use that as yet another stick to clobber ourselves with, or a reason to put ourselves outside of, what effectively can be, and I hear it a lot, a group that has a high percentage of people who are not joiners or would describe themselves as loners. And for me, that has been a huge comfort - I didn't need to change something that has been part of my temperament, or pretend to be something I wasn't. Effectively, I could just own that, usually one on one, and found I got some really good advice on the how to of taking part.
This was really simple stuff, and consisted of things like, offering to do the washing up, or becoming the regular washer upper at a group, arrive early to set up, and help with the clearing away. If during any of that I didn't want to talk about anything particularly heavy, it enabled me to find a way to ask about others, and talk light stuff - nothing even to do with recovery often, or at least at first.
What I've found, and continue to find, is that for me, this needed to begin with simple, practical things, and taking it easy with my expectations of myself and others. This stuff, compounded by the isolation of addiction, is years in the making, and for me takes gentle, but consistent effort to overcome. And small, manageable steps. If you don't have it, do get a copy of Living Sober, and a Just for Today card. Both really helped me focus on simple, practical ways to stay sober.
So from one loner/non-joiner to another (and am sure, of the many who may be on here, and I know attend AA meetings) I really do wish you well, and hope you can be kind to yourself, and take it gently.
One nudge....do take a look at Keith's post. The page he's referenced is genuinely useful information
Very best to you
I was really responding to your point above about not being a joiner. Me too, in fact some of the people I best get on with in AA, would also describe themselves in the same way - a friend who is 18 years sober still recalls the fact that one his school reports saying "John does not play well with others" My first ever sponsor too, would say, because she knew that feeling too, that she wasn't a joiner. Difference may be, he, she, nor I, or anyone else who feels this way would use that as yet another stick to clobber ourselves with, or a reason to put ourselves outside of, what effectively can be, and I hear it a lot, a group that has a high percentage of people who are not joiners or would describe themselves as loners. And for me, that has been a huge comfort - I didn't need to change something that has been part of my temperament, or pretend to be something I wasn't. Effectively, I could just own that, usually one on one, and found I got some really good advice on the how to of taking part.
This was really simple stuff, and consisted of things like, offering to do the washing up, or becoming the regular washer upper at a group, arrive early to set up, and help with the clearing away. If during any of that I didn't want to talk about anything particularly heavy, it enabled me to find a way to ask about others, and talk light stuff - nothing even to do with recovery often, or at least at first.
What I've found, and continue to find, is that for me, this needed to begin with simple, practical things, and taking it easy with my expectations of myself and others. This stuff, compounded by the isolation of addiction, is years in the making, and for me takes gentle, but consistent effort to overcome. And small, manageable steps. If you don't have it, do get a copy of Living Sober, and a Just for Today card. Both really helped me focus on simple, practical ways to stay sober.
So from one loner/non-joiner to another (and am sure, of the many who may be on here, and I know attend AA meetings) I really do wish you well, and hope you can be kind to yourself, and take it gently.
One nudge....do take a look at Keith's post. The page he's referenced is genuinely useful information
Very best to you
Sober Today
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 779
I felt the same way the first time I joined. "No one really cares. They are all so cliquey. Why does no one talk to me? Why aren't they helping me?" I never shared much. Think I spoke one time at one meeting.
This time around I share. I tell them when I'm struggling. I tell them when I want to drink. I tell them that I have trouble picking up the phone, dragging my butt to meetings, that I feel alone and still struggle with acceptance and the first step. That I don't want to do the steps but will do so if it means I can have what the Promises offer. That I'm newly sober and still waiting for that miracle to happen. I thank them for being there to listen to me. I find people much more receptive to me now that I am opening up. I thank people after meetings who shared something that struck me - never did that before.
I also keep my expectations low. I no longer go expecting people to behave a certain way so I'm never disappointed.
This time around I share. I tell them when I'm struggling. I tell them when I want to drink. I tell them that I have trouble picking up the phone, dragging my butt to meetings, that I feel alone and still struggle with acceptance and the first step. That I don't want to do the steps but will do so if it means I can have what the Promises offer. That I'm newly sober and still waiting for that miracle to happen. I thank them for being there to listen to me. I find people much more receptive to me now that I am opening up. I thank people after meetings who shared something that struck me - never did that before.
I also keep my expectations low. I no longer go expecting people to behave a certain way so I'm never disappointed.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
All right, I'll try to trust more, but that won't be easy. I
have done that many times in meetings, only to feel like I have been kicked to the curb. Joined groups before and after meetings, only to be ignored. Nothing against them. They were probably people that new each other for a long time, and I was just a stranger, but it let me know that a newcomer was not as important as they say it is. Newcomers are looked at as suspicion not as someone that needs a friend. I no longer look at meetings as a place to meet new sober people, but just a place to hear people talk about how they deal with everyday problems and not drink on it. Making friends at meetings is vary rare. Most people already have a support group outside of AA. Most people come and go at the meetings, except for a few regulars that hang out after the meetings. Trust me, I have tried to join in at those meetings. Doesn't work. Newcomers are just not welcomed. These people care more about themselves then helping people like me, and I understand that. Maybe I should open up and say that I am an alcoholic just like you and need the support you got. These people pretty much run the meetings. Unfortunately I am not a joiner, and they can probably see that. I am not saying they are wrong in what they believe in. It's just that there may be other ways to use what they know and improve on it. If we didn't see things this way, nothing would change. If alcoholism is truly a disease, or not, why not use the current resources to deal with it?
have done that many times in meetings, only to feel like I have been kicked to the curb. Joined groups before and after meetings, only to be ignored. Nothing against them. They were probably people that new each other for a long time, and I was just a stranger, but it let me know that a newcomer was not as important as they say it is. Newcomers are looked at as suspicion not as someone that needs a friend. I no longer look at meetings as a place to meet new sober people, but just a place to hear people talk about how they deal with everyday problems and not drink on it. Making friends at meetings is vary rare. Most people already have a support group outside of AA. Most people come and go at the meetings, except for a few regulars that hang out after the meetings. Trust me, I have tried to join in at those meetings. Doesn't work. Newcomers are just not welcomed. These people care more about themselves then helping people like me, and I understand that. Maybe I should open up and say that I am an alcoholic just like you and need the support you got. These people pretty much run the meetings. Unfortunately I am not a joiner, and they can probably see that. I am not saying they are wrong in what they believe in. It's just that there may be other ways to use what they know and improve on it. If we didn't see things this way, nothing would change. If alcoholism is truly a disease, or not, why not use the current resources to deal with it?
Actually I've never been to an AA meeting (yet, would like to try it at least once but am still undecided where in my big city). The help I wrote about, that found me without asking (I also refused it in the beginning), was actually not from other alcoholics / addicts, but people in my everyday life: colleagues, friends... Not sure why you keep having negative experiences... I've had plenty of positive ones with good people genuinely interested and willing to sometimes do the things I was supposed to do but did not because I was so ***ed up... I don't know you at all, but my general experience suggests when people tend to have problems getting empathy and even sometimes practical help from others, it's often somehow related to their attitude... One has to be receptive and available in order to attract interest from others, I think. We need to face it with an open mind and heart.
Anyhow, so if it does not work out in AA and you are certain it's not your attitude, perhaps seek out connections in other areas, communities? Maybe via some specific area of your interest that other people can also share? Examples I can give: regardless of being sober or not, I've had some great experiences joining groups interested in philosophy, different kinds of spiritual systems, meditation, dream work, book clubs, hiking..., or groups related to my professional interests (which in my case have a large overlap with the main private ones). I'm guessing this might work with plenty of different areas of interests people might have, you may have... Really does not have to be an addiction support group to find great people.
Just please try not to get stuck in an ivory tower of isolation. I know all too well how that is... no good.
I hope you feel a little more "up" today
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 28,801
I'd not been to an AA meeting in years and felt awkward going but as the days and months rolled by, and I stuck it out, people began treating me kindly and even friendly. We all are in transition in one way or another, due to drinking or not. In our state of mind early sobriety can make us feel even more self conscious. We all are strangers at first and I think perhaps we need to realize that some of the members in those meetings feel just like you. I'm also sure that it can be a revolving door that some of the oldtimers get used to seeing and give it a just wait and see attitude. We all have to pay our dues to ourselves, to others, and to our loving God. Give it a chance. And- Wishing you WELL, One day at a time.
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