CupofJoe

For what it's worth, I've known lots of atheists in AA. There are lots of "freethinking" meetings where I used to live and no one batted an eye. My first sponsor was an atheist and the second was a practicing Catholic and they both told me the same thing: I could believe whatever I wanted. And they took me through the steps the same way.

Here's an old thread that might be helpful to you:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...theist-aa.html

Take care.

WritingFromLife

This is such a ridiculous analogy and the subject matter is so serious (ie, life saving recovery vs learning) but MAYBE it will help get you a small step closer along with all the wonderful advice that has already been given: Many people attend private "Christian" schools and are there just for the education/degree but have to deal with some theology etc. thrown in there as well.

I know that's an oversimplification. Hope it helps a little :-)

keithj

The AA program has worked for millions, in spite of the long-held beliefs with which many of us walked through the doors. About 1/2 the original membership identified as atheist or agnostic. Regardless of the regional Western/Christian language you may hear, it is absolutely essential that this 'higher power' concept makes sense to you.

I walked into AA as a lifelong, committed atheist who thought the mere idea of a 'higher power' was a crutch for weak-minded sheep. But I was thoroughly convinced of Step 1, and had failed over and over at staying sober. What I was asked to do in Step 2 was to lay aside prejudice, keep an open mind, and be willing to admit the possible existence of some power greater than myself. And then take some specific actions (the rest of the Steps).

All I can say is, that process profoundly changed my life. It's never been the same since. As a nice side effect, I haven't had to consider taking a drink for a good many years. I've seen this same experience over and over with other people. Whether or not you are convinced you need help is up to you. I understand not being able to just believe in something you don't believe in. That's an impossibility for me. However, Step 1 forced me to become willing to believe.

I can also tell you this: Solid members of AA won't be disturbed in the least at your opposition to their program. It's not the first time they've seen this, and many of them have been in your position. They may chuckle a bit because they've had the program work for them from the same exact starting point as you.

Best of luck to you!

RobbyRobot

I began AA as an agnostic. I wouldn't even have started if I wasn't able to have my own understanding of my HP. I went thru different understandings as my sober years journeyed on ever forward. For me sobriety itself became my HP. This works best for me.

You know, invoking your right to have your own working understanding is more an essentially important aspect then perhaps you realize, is my take on your thread. More important then what others think or don't think re: your understanding. When you can really appreciate just how powerfully free you are to create an understanding - not create an HP - then I'm sure you'll have no fears with staying sober. Seriously sober too, enjoying life and all that good stuff.

BrendonM

I share many of your concerns. My family has recommended AA to me but I just didn't think it would fit. Even if I replace God with a higher power, I still don't think it would work. I don't want to appeal to a higher power to help myself, I want to draw strength from within and support from other humans.

Joe Nerv

I hear of a lot of people taking issue with the idea of a power outside themselves. And a lot of people claiming there is a power within, or that all the power they have is theirs. I never understood the difference between the two. Power, as I define it is an energy, a force, or strength. It's invisible. Why do people make claims as to where it resides? Or care? Not trying to be funny or argumentative, saying that to me this was never an issue. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a force much MUCH more powerful than me in the universe. An energy that keeps my heart beating when I'm asleep, that keeps the sun burning, planets spinning, and that grows a tiny seed into a giant redwood. I can't do any of that, plus about a billion other things. I don't know what that power is, I don't know where that power is, but I've learned if I submit to it I get the strength and resources to do things that were once absolutely impossible for me to do. For simplicity sake (and because it works), I call that force god. Regardless of the fact that technically, some would define me as an atheist.

2bhappier

There must be a huge variety in AA meetings because the g-d thing hasn't really been brought up much where I go. I am sorry it is like that where you are. I am agnostic but I really haven't found any religious pressure at AA.

Coldfusion

This is why I joined SoberRecovery! I am an atheist, and have been going to meetings for over a year. At meetings, "cross talk" or commenting on what another person says is discouraged. So it is not appropriate to ask a question and expect an answer during the meeting.

But there's no shortage of opinions and answers here! And I have found that many folks have the same doubts, that's why it comes up so much at meetings and it is a common topic here at SoberRecovery. Welcome to the club!

CAPTAINZING2000

Did they tell you to or just suggest it?

Anything I say is just a suggestion . I'm not telling you to pray.

kiki1988

People say "open your mind" as if it is a decision you make like demmocrat or republican whether or not you believe in God and it really isn't. One woman in particular has repeatedly 'advised' me to get down on my knees at night and pray. It just doesn't work for me

I really have made an attempt to get my head around this. I have thought about making love my higher power. I believe in love, and I believe love gives us the capacity to do things we might have thought impossible. So maybe that would work? I have a heart shaped necklace and since I thought about this I have associated it with love as my HP and it kind of feels like a ********. I have to admit though, I'd feel kind of silly saying any of that to a sponsor.

Joe Nerv

Realized my post may have been taken in a way other than intended, so I deleted it.

CAPTAINZING2000

Nothing wrong with what you believe there.
Every should have more love in their hearts!

wpainterw

Kiki: Perhaps you might view these meetings as a traveler might view a foreign land. You are a visitor there and respect their customs, their beliefs, but this does not mean that you must believe as they do in all respects. You have at least one thing in common, the desire to stop drinking, the search for sobriety, for release from the slavery of alcohol. Perhaps you can put out your hand, smile at those who extend to you similar respect. Avoid those who don't. No one is perfect. You are a traveler and can choose your own path. AA is a path but not the only one. Benefit if you can from their experience, their insights but this need not commit you to all of their beliefs. If these beliefs are important to them for their sobriety, then all well and good. It does not mean that your beliefs are not important to yours.

W.

GracieLou

I know people that have chosen a tree to be their HP. They believed in mother nature more than a “God” so they chose something that represented roots that was solid and steadfast.

For real, they chose a tree so if love represented by a heart shaped necklace does it for you then by all means use that.

I would not feel weird telling my sponsor anything. Mine supports me, even when I have made a decision that was not so great. She suggested I do it a different way but it was still up to me. A good sponsor will never tell you what to do or ridicule you for choosing another path. Mine has always told me what she did and made suggestions. She still supported me whether I took them or not.

I was given a cross necklace by my BF. I am not religious at all and have no religion in my background in any way, shape or form. At first I felt like a hypocrite but now I love it. To me it represents my faith in a HP, one of my understanding. It gives me comfort.

jdooner

I like how your thinking in terms of the abstract. Its how I started to breakdown my ideals and realize I had been brainwashed for most of my life. BTW - I define brainwashing as pontificating or practicing someone elses ideals without fully understanidng them myself, i.e. I vote Republican becasue my dad votes Republican. I am Catholic becasue my parents are Catholic. This process is called waking up in my opinion. As you wake up though, you are going to learn things are not all rosey.

I reccomend a wonderful book, titled: Awareness, by De Mello or Mindfulness for Beginners, Kabat-zinn.

What you seem to be doing Kiki is starting to open up. Being open will allow you to grow and learn. Follow your truth, you will know what is true and what is not bc what is true for you will feel right. Thsi does not mean it will feel good but will feel right, if your being honest with yourself. Another great book on this is Blink, by Gladwell. It basically says you know the right answer in the first 5 seconds 90% of the time.

I read from your posts that you are opening your mind. Forget about God for the moment, I don't think it would help based on whre you seem to be at. Also praying is useless if you don't believe in what you are praying to. The benefit of a higher power is to think beyond yourself. If you have ever climbed a mountain and look at the wonders of mother nature its not hard for me to see that I am insignificant relatively speaking. This is how I started to develop my higher power.

You might want to try meditating. Jus has posted some free courses on leanring how to meditate on SR. Over time you might find like me that you develop a construct of a higher power - perhaps htis is love perhaps this is God, who knows, just be open, willing and honest and you will get there on your terms.

BadCompany

That'll work just fine and it's not silly at all.

PaperDolls

kiki -- I'm glad you're here. I understand your frustrations and anger and fear.

I worried for a long time people would judge my HP, what ever it may be. I finally realized I don't care what they think, this is for me. I also realized that i was judging their HP and how unfair and hypocritical it was of me.

Somehow, after that realization, I was able to let go of my anger and fear and just focus on me.

I'm glad you're going to give it another try.

BTW, I happily talk about my HP in meetings because there may be someone in the room that shares my views and struggles with it. There may also be someone in the room that is offended by my HP. That's on them and I just don't worry about it any more.

I think making LOVE your HP is a GREAT idea!!!!

Good luck to you!

awuh1

I understand what you are saying about deciding to believe. It seems odd that someone can decide to believe in, say, trolls or unicorns. It's not something you decide to do.

On the other hand, keeping an open mind seems like something that you can do. Keeping an open mind just means not drawing a conclusion until an adequate search has been made.

Believe me. I'm not saying this to be provocative. I was just where you are when I came into AA. I had plenty of good reasons for believing as I did, and not believing in a God was one of them. It was pointed out to me that I had not really done a thorough search. I spent the next several months studying the worlds religions. It was something I had never even considered doing... because I was not open minded enough to do a search.

The other thing I think you may wish to consider is black and white thinking. This is where things are typically seen as either good or bad, right or wrong, etc. In point of fact, there are lot's of shades of gray in the world, and thankfully there's actually a lot of color.

PaperDolls

A friend of mine and I were recently talking on this subject. She said "It doesn't matter what you believe in, just that you believe in something."

kiki1988

I know, but I can't help it - some of the stuff the book says makes me want to scream. One of them - which I held back from commenting on the other day in the meeting - was the idea that "nothing in this universe happens by mistake"

It took all my will power not to just start yelling "yeah - well tell that to the people of the Philippines who are still dealing with the aftermath of the typhoon even though news headlines have moved on - and tell it to the parents of the 10 kids in Africa who died of starvation since the beginning of this meeting - and tell it to the people of Syria whose lives are being torn apart day by day - tell them 'nothing happens by mistake'@

Obviously I've got some anger issues, but notwithstanding I think my point holds.