I think I have offended people at AA
Sober Today
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 779
aww kiki wish i could give you a hug! Don't be worried. If you feel that AA has anything to contribute to your sobriety then go back with an open mind. You will always get the chance to explain your feelings and when/if they change - that is growth.
I've heard a lot of people in meetings say they felt the same way as you at first, or they were skeptical, or stubborn, or belligerent or whatever the case may have been for them, and that eventually there was a shift.
Good luck with whatever path you choose. AA is not the only way to get sober so don't be afraid. But do give it another shot if you like some aspects of it. Couldn't hurt, right? =)
I've heard a lot of people in meetings say they felt the same way as you at first, or they were skeptical, or stubborn, or belligerent or whatever the case may have been for them, and that eventually there was a shift.
Good luck with whatever path you choose. AA is not the only way to get sober so don't be afraid. But do give it another shot if you like some aspects of it. Couldn't hurt, right? =)
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Clifton
Posts: 243
There are pieces of this program that are life changing and so extremely valuable and they've helped me remain sober and lead a better life for almost 10 months. It helped me to find the true source of my anger and why I spent so much time worrying about what everyone else was doing and thinking rather than what I needed to do. Focus on my own recovery. From lady blue. Sorry don't know how to quote.
Hit right on! Spirituality and higher power, just whenever they refer t GOD you replace with higher power, if you don't want t say the prayer and then don't. Keep going you will acquire valuable tools on how to stay sober. Take what you can use and leave the rest behind. Don't dwell too much just take it easy, it will be ok and if AA is not for you there are other programs. You should remain honest that is very good, I have met others in the room that felt the same as you but they adapted. Take good care of yourself.
Hit right on! Spirituality and higher power, just whenever they refer t GOD you replace with higher power, if you don't want t say the prayer and then don't. Keep going you will acquire valuable tools on how to stay sober. Take what you can use and leave the rest behind. Don't dwell too much just take it easy, it will be ok and if AA is not for you there are other programs. You should remain honest that is very good, I have met others in the room that felt the same as you but they adapted. Take good care of yourself.
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
Kiki, I have a lot to say about this, I go to AA and I have no religious affiliation at all, wasn't raised with it. I'll post more later on how I work the program.
I did want to say really quickly that I wouldn't worry about offending anyone, I don't see an issue with saying what you said.
I did want to say really quickly that I wouldn't worry about offending anyone, I don't see an issue with saying what you said.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 297
This is why One of the Co-Founders of AA Insisted that the term a God
"Of Our Understanding" was included in the Basic Text. The Word GOD is just a simplistic term more than anything -
The fact is that Prayer, or what some call a "Spiritual Mind Treatment" is Quite necessary in Recovery. I heard of a guy in AA that used to "pray" to one of the Pillars holding up the building at a Meeting He used to go to...and it WORKED for Him...
It Really doesn't Matter WHAT we pray or Reach out to, it seems...as long as it's something OUTSIDE Ourself - Without realizing it, Alcohol has been a Power Greater than Ourself that We Reached out to, so We need to find ANOTHER Power Outside Ourself in order to Combat this Maladay...
You can take that Word G-O-D and make it Good Orderly Direction...or whatever works for YOU - that is the Beauty and Freedom of the Program...Like I said, GOD is just a simplistic term that can mean MANY things to Many Different People...It's just Easy to say and I suppose "categorise" - But it doesn't have to mean "Almighty-Judging-All Seeing Master" or anything like that - It really boils down to the Act of Reaching Out to something Greater...
Like the Old Phrase states - "You can't Heal a Sick Mind with a Sick Mind" - Prayer or "Reaching Out" is so Essential for Recovery...Anyways - I'll shut up now...
"Of Our Understanding" was included in the Basic Text. The Word GOD is just a simplistic term more than anything -
The fact is that Prayer, or what some call a "Spiritual Mind Treatment" is Quite necessary in Recovery. I heard of a guy in AA that used to "pray" to one of the Pillars holding up the building at a Meeting He used to go to...and it WORKED for Him...
It Really doesn't Matter WHAT we pray or Reach out to, it seems...as long as it's something OUTSIDE Ourself - Without realizing it, Alcohol has been a Power Greater than Ourself that We Reached out to, so We need to find ANOTHER Power Outside Ourself in order to Combat this Maladay...
You can take that Word G-O-D and make it Good Orderly Direction...or whatever works for YOU - that is the Beauty and Freedom of the Program...Like I said, GOD is just a simplistic term that can mean MANY things to Many Different People...It's just Easy to say and I suppose "categorise" - But it doesn't have to mean "Almighty-Judging-All Seeing Master" or anything like that - It really boils down to the Act of Reaching Out to something Greater...
Like the Old Phrase states - "You can't Heal a Sick Mind with a Sick Mind" - Prayer or "Reaching Out" is so Essential for Recovery...Anyways - I'll shut up now...
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by kiki1988 
Hi guys,
I'm very much a newcomer to recovery and I'm the kind of person who is never able to hold their feelings back.
In my first meetings everyone told me it didn't matter that I didn't believe in god or a higher power, that I should just keep coming back. I just don't have a spiritual side. Keep coming back they said. So I did, and I've been sober since the 15th.
At my last two meetings, I've gotten really angry and ranted about how I feel like I have been lied to. At my 12 and 12 meeting on Saturday we read step 11 and I got really angry because it is ALL ABOUT GOT. And it isn't a god of your understanding, or a higher power, it's clearly about a Christian god - look at the prayers in the step or use of words like 'Amen' and 'Our Creator'. I spoke up and told everyone I felt cheated. Some people congratulated me after and told me I should keep being honest.
So last night there were two major themes at my As Bill Sees It meeting. One was rigorous honesty and the other was God/higher power. I spoke up again. I told the meeting I can only do one or the other. I can be rigorously honest and say I think all the HP stuff is bollocks or I can do the higher power stuff but it will be a lie because I just don't believe it. I think I offended some people and I'm not sure what to do about that.
Some people keep telling me the god stuff isn't important and just keep coming back but it is EVERYWHERE in the Big Book and at the meetings. I like going to AA meetings because I meet people like me, but I feel like everyone's just going to hate me because I keep shitting on their path to recovery (I don't mean to do this but I think I have by accident because this stuff really upsets me and then I run my mouth)
I'm very much a newcomer to recovery and I'm the kind of person who is never able to hold their feelings back.
In my first meetings everyone told me it didn't matter that I didn't believe in god or a higher power, that I should just keep coming back. I just don't have a spiritual side. Keep coming back they said. So I did, and I've been sober since the 15th.
At my last two meetings, I've gotten really angry and ranted about how I feel like I have been lied to. At my 12 and 12 meeting on Saturday we read step 11 and I got really angry because it is ALL ABOUT GOT. And it isn't a god of your understanding, or a higher power, it's clearly about a Christian god - look at the prayers in the step or use of words like 'Amen' and 'Our Creator'. I spoke up and told everyone I felt cheated. Some people congratulated me after and told me I should keep being honest.
So last night there were two major themes at my As Bill Sees It meeting. One was rigorous honesty and the other was God/higher power. I spoke up again. I told the meeting I can only do one or the other. I can be rigorously honest and say I think all the HP stuff is bollocks or I can do the higher power stuff but it will be a lie because I just don't believe it. I think I offended some people and I'm not sure what to do about that.
Some people keep telling me the god stuff isn't important and just keep coming back but it is EVERYWHERE in the Big Book and at the meetings. I like going to AA meetings because I meet people like me, but I feel like everyone's just going to hate me because I keep shitting on their path to recovery (I don't mean to do this but I think I have by accident because this stuff really upsets me and then I run my mouth)
I was like you and wrote the same things here - you can check if you want. I do not believe in Jesus or an almighty God. I am in AA and steps and have developed a higher power. My construct of a HP I trust and have faith in and it is no way like a Christian God. In fact, it resembles a Buddhist belief more than Catholic/Christian. This was next to impossible to see early on, so what I did have was trust to keep giving it a shot and it worked for me.
I also tried other programs and they did not work for me - so I am sharing my experience.
Good luck - don't worry about offending, its your life!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dubai
Posts: 99
See, in the first week people kept saying stuff like that - God can mean Good Orderly Direction or Group Of Drunks or anything you want it to mean. And I accepted that. Til I went to this 12 and 12 meeting and it's all about a Christian God and prayer in a traditional Christian sense. I felt like I had been lied to.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 297
Like I've been told, Hun - Take what You NEED and let the rest slide...Whatever works for YOU is going to work for YOU...In time You WILL find what works BEST on a Personal Level - Just the fact that You are TRYING means Everything...Namaste, kiki...
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Probably my living room. Maybe my bedroom if I'm feeling lazy
Posts: 1,085
I'm an atheist. I'm in AA. It works for me.
You seem to actively be looking for a confrontation. One can debate these issues internally without having to share repeatedly at group level.
Might I suggest you return to AA and just listen for a while without sharing? You might be surprised at what you hear.
And if you're serious, get a sponsor. They can help you with this.
You seem to actively be looking for a confrontation. One can debate these issues internally without having to share repeatedly at group level.
Might I suggest you return to AA and just listen for a while without sharing? You might be surprised at what you hear.
And if you're serious, get a sponsor. They can help you with this.
AA member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom.
Posts: 3,007
If you are in AA you never have to apologise for what you said.
As a newcomer it is advisable to sit and listen in the early meetings.
If AA is not for you find another recovery method.AA is not the only way.
As a newcomer it is advisable to sit and listen in the early meetings.
If AA is not for you find another recovery method.AA is not the only way.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Didn't read all the responses, cuz I must be off to work... but wanted to respond.
An 11th step meeting is not a good place for people who have no belief in a HP. The people there are gathered to talk about the 11th step. Impossible to do that without talking about god, prayer, etc.
If I were you I'd do 2 things. First, stick to beginner, topic, closed discussion, and open meetings. Second, be a little careful about what you say at meetings. Honesty doesn't mean you have crap all over others beliefs. You can silently disagree. Or choose your words wisely. I can't see anyone having issue if you shared at an 11th step meeting, "I really want to stay sober, I want to be a part of AA, but for the life of me I just can't get myself to believe this HP stuff". I wouldn't be offended.
I'll add a 3rd suggestion. At one of the above mentioned types of meetings listen closely to what people are sharing. Find someone who's been sober a while that either shares your beliefs, or you feel you would be comfortable talking with, and ask them to be your sponsor. Vent all your frustrations and disagreements on that person, as opposed to the group.
It is not a requirement in AA to work the steps, nor believe in a HP. It's a good idea to open your mind to the possibility that there might be one, but lots of people stay sober without ever doing so.
An 11th step meeting is not a good place for people who have no belief in a HP. The people there are gathered to talk about the 11th step. Impossible to do that without talking about god, prayer, etc.
If I were you I'd do 2 things. First, stick to beginner, topic, closed discussion, and open meetings. Second, be a little careful about what you say at meetings. Honesty doesn't mean you have crap all over others beliefs. You can silently disagree. Or choose your words wisely. I can't see anyone having issue if you shared at an 11th step meeting, "I really want to stay sober, I want to be a part of AA, but for the life of me I just can't get myself to believe this HP stuff". I wouldn't be offended.
I'll add a 3rd suggestion. At one of the above mentioned types of meetings listen closely to what people are sharing. Find someone who's been sober a while that either shares your beliefs, or you feel you would be comfortable talking with, and ask them to be your sponsor. Vent all your frustrations and disagreements on that person, as opposed to the group.
It is not a requirement in AA to work the steps, nor believe in a HP. It's a good idea to open your mind to the possibility that there might be one, but lots of people stay sober without ever doing so.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dubai
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by digdug
I'm an atheist. I'm in AA. It works for me.
You seem to actively be looking for a confrontation. One can debate these issues internally without having to share repeatedly at group level.
Might I suggest you return to AA and just listen for a while without sharing? You might be surprised at what you hear.
And if you're serious, get a sponsor. They can help you with this.
You seem to actively be looking for a confrontation. One can debate these issues internally without having to share repeatedly at group level.
Might I suggest you return to AA and just listen for a while without sharing? You might be surprised at what you hear.
And if you're serious, get a sponsor. They can help you with this.
Like I said, I feel really bad for my outburst- I'm not just saying that.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 297
"Coward's way out, I know. " no way You're far from being a Coward You are TRYING and seem to want something better...
-Have You read this? It's from "The Spiritual Experience" of the Big Book. This might Help You
"With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected
inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves."
-Have You read this? It's from "The Spiritual Experience" of the Big Book. This might Help You
"With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected
inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves."
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dubai
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
Second, be a little careful about what you say at meetings. Honesty doesn't mean you have crap all over others beliefs. You can silently disagree. Or choose your words wisely. I can't see anyone having issue if you shared at an 11th step meeting, "I really want to stay sober, I want to be a part of AA, but for the life of me I just can't get myself to believe this HP stuff". I wouldn't be offended.
But yesterday, I just think I was a b***h. I didn't mean to be. And I had made a decision not to speak, and I didn't until right at the end because someone else right before me talked about their difficulties with God extensively, even thought he said he had a good relationship with God now.
Almost word for word, this is what I said: "Two of the big themes that have come up here today are rigorous honesty and higher powers and I feel like I can only do one or the other. I can be rigorously honest and say 'I think it is all boll**ks or I can do the higher power stuff but I will always be pretending"
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
I'm from the Alanon side of the room myself, but I do understand what you're saying, to an extent. There are aspects of Alanon that don't particularly resonate w/me, either, and the Christian bent is one of them. However, as time passes, I learn more and more about how things I don't find relevant or pertinent to me actually ARE relevant and pertinent, regardless of whatever filter it may be passed thru, and often very much so. I learn this thru listening to others talk at meetings, rather than speaking. I know that you've been given this advice earlier in the thread but wanted to echo it.
There is a thread in the Family and Friends section that speaks to the practice of taking whatever works from whatever sources you can find. I liked it. Here's a link, in case you want to take a peek: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...very-mutt.html
Wishing you strength and clarity.
There is a thread in the Family and Friends section that speaks to the practice of taking whatever works from whatever sources you can find. I liked it. Here's a link, in case you want to take a peek: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...very-mutt.html
Wishing you strength and clarity.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
I've had the same issues that you have with the Christian God slant in AA and it made me really angry because I don't like feeling like having religion shoved down my throat. I came to believe as LadyBlue has. That there are many valuable things I have learned or become mindful of through AA. Essentially it helps retrain your brain with common sense people and living skills so that you avoid the stress associated with always doing the wrong thing or thinking you have done the wrong thing and instead making better, healthier choices. Akin to "don't run with scissors" or "don't talk and chew at the same time" or share your toys. It also provides company with people in a similar situation who understand even if their religious beliefs aren't the same.
Ultimately you will go with what works best for you. Many of the people in AA have heard what you have voiced and as long as you did not outright criticize their beliefs and tell them they are full of it they probably were not offended. If you like the idea of AA as a whole and continue to attend you may find that there are like minded people in this particular group who feel as you do but are less vocal about it. Just don't let your anger lead you to drink. That is the primary goal.
Ultimately you will go with what works best for you. Many of the people in AA have heard what you have voiced and as long as you did not outright criticize their beliefs and tell them they are full of it they probably were not offended. If you like the idea of AA as a whole and continue to attend you may find that there are like minded people in this particular group who feel as you do but are less vocal about it. Just don't let your anger lead you to drink. That is the primary goal.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 556
It sounds like you have some regret for how you expressed yourself in the moment, and that is what is bothering you even more than the god/God thing. For that reason alone, I urge you to keep going. I applaud your honesty and I think it is really important to allow yourself to be vulnerable, to take risks in your honesty and to face consequences. Let me just say that I think the consequences you are imagining are just that - imagined. People rarely respond to us in the way we dream up. They have their own lives going on - don't try to guess what they think about yours.
FWiW, I've been where you are, exactly, as well. I wish that AA would move to a bigger tent philosophy, but I don't see that happening, so it is pointless for me to get angry about it over and over and over. I have found a HP of my own understanding, but things like reciting the Lords Prayer in the end used to have the capacity to send me over the edge. I finally just accepted that I was using a program that was going to be continue to be applied through the Christian filter it was developed under, whether I liked it or not. I deliberately chose to utilize it anyway. Going in eyes open, making a deliberate choice, made a difference to me. I no longer felt duped - I felt accepting and grateful and have taken AA as it is, presenting myself, as I am. I accept the program and I feel accepted there.
It took me a while to get here and I had to figure out the path on my own in my own time.
FWiW, I've been where you are, exactly, as well. I wish that AA would move to a bigger tent philosophy, but I don't see that happening, so it is pointless for me to get angry about it over and over and over. I have found a HP of my own understanding, but things like reciting the Lords Prayer in the end used to have the capacity to send me over the edge. I finally just accepted that I was using a program that was going to be continue to be applied through the Christian filter it was developed under, whether I liked it or not. I deliberately chose to utilize it anyway. Going in eyes open, making a deliberate choice, made a difference to me. I no longer felt duped - I felt accepting and grateful and have taken AA as it is, presenting myself, as I am. I accept the program and I feel accepted there.
It took me a while to get here and I had to figure out the path on my own in my own time.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Lost in the midwest
Posts: 443
Group of Drunks... yes thats what we are. Simple. We are people who have a desire to stop the insanity and deal with our addictions. Believing in God is your own personal deal. Believing in a Group of Drunks that share similar issues, have had similar problems, and are looking for a solution is no single human power. The fellowship alone is a higher power. Its not by accident that we all end up in the same place, you can put that on whatever higher power that you like, but at the end of the day, the point is that we cant do this on our own. We simply cannot recover from our dangerous thinking and actions on our own. Its more than just picking up the drink. And we have to accept that. The fellowship of AA, SR, CR, or any gathering, creates a belief that we can get better, with the help of others.
Im an alcoholic, and if i am given the oppurtunity to have a one on one meeting with a single person and share my experiences, I can convince them that (my alcoholic drinking, for example) actions are normal and I dont need help, but if I am going to sit with more than one person, I may not be as convincing, right? because there are more points of view.
You dont have to believe in my God, or the person's God across the table, You have to believe in something bigger than you. Something or some people that want to see you get better and thrive. After all, the only thing self will did for me was create riots, shame guilt and remorse, and take me to the darkest places I have ever been in my ming. Dont over analyze and dont seek confrontation. Keep it simple and take it slow.
Im an alcoholic, and if i am given the oppurtunity to have a one on one meeting with a single person and share my experiences, I can convince them that (my alcoholic drinking, for example) actions are normal and I dont need help, but if I am going to sit with more than one person, I may not be as convincing, right? because there are more points of view.
You dont have to believe in my God, or the person's God across the table, You have to believe in something bigger than you. Something or some people that want to see you get better and thrive. After all, the only thing self will did for me was create riots, shame guilt and remorse, and take me to the darkest places I have ever been in my ming. Dont over analyze and dont seek confrontation. Keep it simple and take it slow.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 233
Kiki, you have gotten a lot of good suggestions here. You don't have to believe in God to attend AA, regardless of what they might say. Just believe in spiritually, in a power greater than you, it doesn't have to be a "religious" God. (By the way, religion is man made, God is not). Believe in the life force, the creator that put you here, whether you call Him God, Alllah, or it's Mother Nature. If you can admit that there is some other force out there than you that created the world, that is God, regardless of the name.
I would suggest continuing to go to the AA group and in no time, you won't be the newcomer anymore. If you are even getting a little bit out of it (AA saying: "Take what you need and leave the rest"), then I would continue to go.
I would suggest continuing to go to the AA group and in no time, you won't be the newcomer anymore. If you are even getting a little bit out of it (AA saying: "Take what you need and leave the rest"), then I would continue to go.
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