Gibbons2

So, still drinking and need to get more involved in AA. They are the only group that seems to be able to give me what I want.

I don't know. Through all these years I will still say I don't understand people. I don't understand what it is they want from me. I don't think I ever will.

And maybe it doesn't matter. I guess, to them, it doesn't. And it doesn't mean I don't care about me. I do. I just don't flat out understand them. And I have tried so hard for all these years to do for them what I guess I wanted. Some dependance, some security, something. I try to give them that, yet fall short on getting anything in return.

Does that make me a control freak? Like the AA people say? Maybe, I guess. My intentions always good, my outcomes, not so much.

I never understood why my ex-boyfriend would say he meant what he said, "At the time." What does that mean? "At the time?" Don't you believe in your own promises to people? Just today you mean it, yet not after that? I don't get it. I really don't. How can you be so sketchy?

I don't know. I have lived my life hoping to hope that someone would be true to me and I guess I get that from my alcoholic father. Yet he sobered up, after my age of 12, then I could trust him, I guess. The damage already done, the impressions already there. Too late for me I think, to believe he was true.

Yet I have soldiered on, hoping and wanting for what I see, what I believe people can be. Maybe I just want them more like me. I guess I do. Someone honest, and decent, someone true to their word, someone trustworthy.

And the space I am in now, drinking or no, is still the same. I keep hoping what I see in the world isn't how life really is. That we are not that selfish. That someone honors their word. That my ex-boyfriend wouldn't want to sue his own fiance for $60,000. Cigarette starting the fire or no. That all his words really meant he loved me. I guess not.

That my job of 19 years, until they made me so poor I had to cut off my garbage service and literally went to the "free food store" to make ends meet, wasn't true. That they wouldn't be so mean.

And now I fight for me. By default I guess. Not because I ever wanted to or wanted to be this alone, but at some point I need to take care of me, my house, my pets, my commitment to others. Because I sit back baffled as to why what I gave STILL wasn't enough.

When I lived true to my word. When I said to the ex, "I will give you a year," when I had to hound him for finding a new job that he AGREED with, yet tried to put it on me.

And it is fine, I guess, to accept it. Do I have a choice? No. For me wanting to believe in someone, something, ANYONE, I don't see it with you people.

I have never been in trouble with the law for my drinking. I don't drink and drive, yet I have a very hard time accepting people as they are. I don't understand a promise where the rules get changed. I don't understand my former work place making me so poor I have to get free food, yet them expecting me to not just do one, but two jobs. I truly do not get it.

I don't understand a man who seemed so much like he loved me, wanting me to be a "good cook." I mean really? Why not hire a maid? Is that all you wanted? Is there nothing about me that is worth anything? What can I do, for all you people, that is?

And they have made me just like them. And I never wanted to be that way. I never believed in it. I never believed in not "following the rules." But here I go, with my own business because I got tired of begging for free food, I got tired of being poorer. And they made me like them.

So now, with my own business, I will take cash under the table. I won't report it to the government. I will be like you, you slimey, nasty, gross, dishonest freaks. Now I do the wrong thing, in order to survive. And while I still don't agree with it, I will do it to at least take care of my pets and whatever I have earned. I guess, because life, and certainly those in it, do not treat you fairly and trying to live it, where we all think (or I do) that people are honest and decent, isn't true.

I have been alone for 7 years now and I hate it. I hate that all I have is my work and there is no one to trust. But I trusted, still would like to, not only is there no one here to hook up with, even if I did, I would be leary as hell. Your trial period is 10 years, if you can be honest, fulfill your word in all that time, maybe then I will marry you. Maybe if what you say matches up with what you do, then maybe I will trust you.

I have never believed in not honoring a commitment. When I tell my Mom I will be there for dinner at such a time, I AM THERE. When I tell work I will be there, drunk or not (I only missed 5 days in a year and only because they allotted us that, not just drinking), I AM THERE. When I agree to a promise, I FULFILL it. I am true to what I say. I am to them and I am true to me. Someone please tell me why everyone out there has no morals or whatever the issue is, that they can't do the same?

My only answer being is that they love themselves that much more. And while I do love myself, I always thought doing the right thing was the way to go. And now? Eh. Not so much. I see the world true now, I guess, as much as I still don't want to see it. That everyone IS selfish. That work will work you to death until you have to get free food to survive. That the ex changes the rules, to suit himself, because that is what HE wants, and **** me.

So am I now like all you people? I guess. When I was a child, I thought like a child, when I became a woman, I still thought the same way. I thought a promise was a promise. I thought giving it my all, was something. But nope, I guess that isn't true either.

It is part of the reason I still drink. I WANT to trust in something that won't fail me, like I haven't failed them. I WANT to belive life isn't that ******. I WANT to trust someone. I don't want to believe that life is really just about me, or you. That we really care about each other. I want to believe that someone is honest and true and kind. So much. And I hate knowing that isn't what I have seen here.

Dee74

There are people, and things, you can trust in. Some of the best people I know are on this website, and in AA.

I get the feeling that you're looking for a cast iron no small print guarantee tho, and there isn't one.

Reaching out, trusting people, will always be a leap of faith.

I don't think you'll regret it - but I do think you need to be sober for that to happen.

Right now your bar is set so impossibly high that I don't think anyone could match up...and I think maybe the addicted, and the scared, part of you likes it fine, just like that?

D

Gibbons2

That's not true Dee. The addicted part of me doesn't like it "fine." I was sober for 7 years, remember? I tried their "way." I still got the same. They weren't better or nicer, or anything else. They were still mean, selfish, wanted their own ****. Life didn't really change, only that I stopped believing in them I guess. Only that I hoped for something beyond them. That is the only thing that changed. And I need to go back to it. Which is why I need to get off this message board. At least the AAers believe in SOMETHING.

And I need to too. I have tried my whole life to believe in others and yet they fail, I guess, my great expectations. When all this time, I never thought I asked for all that much. Still don't. And still don't get it.

Dee74

I'm sorry you haven't met any people who lift you up and not tear you down Gibbons. That makes me sad.

I believe that everyone is entitled to happiness, to love, and a place where they can fit in.

I hope you find it

D

Gibbons2

They don't tear me down, the don't. They are just themselves. I am not an idiot. They just care more about themselves than me I guess. And while I do too, I guess what I respect is not promising something you can't keep. I never do. I tell people what I say I am going to do and YES, fulfill it. Why wouldn't they? Why are they so much above who I am?

Why are they flaky? Sure, fine in all, if you CAN'T do it. But why say you can and not do it? Why make a promise at all?

How can YOU live with YOURSELF not being true to others?

Gibbons2

And yes Dee, I am scared and it isn't for what I failed to do, it is what they did. Because if they do, then how do they love me? How can you not be true to your word, what you promised, and NOT think of yourself? Which I guess means, it isn't true. It is why there are those AAers out there and I was one too, even if I didn't understand all of it. If God is Love, than at least someone does, even if people don't know how to.

Dee74

I don't know how to answer your questions in a way that won't upset you.

I do know that I used to have a great deal of resentment at people who did not live up to the standards I thought they should....

even I failed my own standards they were that high...and that fed nicely into my own dark perception of myself and the world around me.

I was expecting the impossible, expectations no one could live up to...

I was being kind loving and helpful to people in the expectation they'd be kind loving and helpful back...The world is not always fair like that.

I'm not surprised I was always angry and disappointed, and that my relationships with other people never lasted long.

Not drinking exposed me to another perception - that I got back what I gave out.

When I started to realise that people are just people, not supermen, and that my reactions to them are the only things I can change, then I began to see that life might not be the constant disappointment I always saw it as.

I also had some wonderful giving generous people walk into my life when I needed them most - because I took a leap of faith and asked for help

I'm sorry if you feel all this is not the case with you. Genuinely sorry.

I don't know what you did for seven years, but in threads like these I see you doing what I did - pushing people and solutions away and making it so your problems are insurmountable - if the problem is everyone else, nothing can be done, right?

I'm not having a go at you at all, but worldviews like that drove me to drink time and time again.

I genuinely hope you get something out of AA

D

Looking4Help123

Gibbons, I was (and still am to a degree) like yourself. Constantly wondering why people are the way they are. Why they just put aside promises made merely hours earlier. I don't get them either. I really don't.

What I have found in this journey though, the sobriety one, the one where I do a lot of reflection and thinking about things, is that focussing too much on other people or why they do things is just fraught with frustration. When I look at people that are truly happy I see people that are not phased by other peoples actions. They care, they see bad behaviour, but it doesn't eat them up. They are truly "in the moment"...

There is a book I've been reading by David D Burns called "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" which is a book based on CBT that provides tools to help tackle such thoughts, thoughts that are out of our control.

I don't mean to preach to you to "go read a book" as clearly you have spent many years at this. I'm just finding that it's helping me with broader feelings of betrayal and other such negative emotions.

PS: You know that alcohol amplifies that kind of thinking but I will remind you anyway.

Wishing you well.

Raider

Ahhhhh Gibbons, why are you so mad right now?

Gibbons2

No, you are right. It is where I was before, with AA. It is how I approached the BF, at the time. I saw it separate, I saw me as me, I didn't expect that much.

And it WAS good Dee. It was how I knew him at all. After being a drunk then for 6 or 7 years.

But after that, I don't know. It is hard to be "stoic." It is hard, at least for me, to know that I am in control of my world and that those we trust maybe aren't what we expect.

And I started, I think, to trust. His word, what it was, something, yes, beyond myself. That I wasn't in it alone. There was someone else. Yes, just something beyond myself.

And it is hard, in some ways, to believe in God. As much as I see him, flowers in the field and whatever else, he doesn't stand in my living room like a man can.

I already know where all the hurt comes from. I was my Dad's favorite kid. Still was, when he died. I would have done anything for him and while Dad was a big drunk for many years (got sober when I was 12), my faith was in him, a person, and I held him to all the esteem that I could.

Gibbons2

Raider, I am not angry, I really am not. Just wanted I guess, to have more than what people can give me. And I have to accept it. I guess I do. And I did, years ago, and yes, it made me feel better, got me sober.

But I will tell you what my friends, as a person here on this earth, it is hard to believe in something, like God, that you cannot see. It is hard to want things from other people, who can't give them. It is hard to be stoic, when you don't really want to be that way.

It is hard to know you life is in your own control, when you want to "give it up" and let them handle it. And I don't know if it makes me feel good or bad. What it makes me is me, I guess, wishing they would take the reines, when I was so used to them having them in the first place, even if I resented it Dee.

Don't tell me I need to go to counseling, I already know it.

Dee74

It took me a while to find God again.

I was very angry at Him for some things and disappointed at Him for other things.

Now looking back I know He was always there, and always wanted the best for me.
I was just too ornery, too sad, too heated, and too drunk to notice.

I think you're a fine person who's had some bad breaks. I get it I really do.
I think if there's one thing we agree on, it's that you deserve better.

I'm just suggesting that needs to come from within you first., not other people
D

jaynie04

Gibbons, I remember that you posted previously that your dad got sober when you were 12 because my mom got sober when I was 13 and she is still sober.

I had a thought after I read your post. I was out doing errands today and I was so frustrated and annoyed by the lack of manners I encountered. People who don't say thank you when you hold doors, people who try on clothes and leave them piled on the dressing room floor, people who let their kids thrown footballs over aisles of clothing racks and leave shopping carts in the middle of parking lots where they damage peoples cars. I felt assaulted as if all of these breaches of conduct were directed at me. I knew it was irrational, but I tried to look at what was going on in my inner dialogue...

When I read your post your frustration with what you feel to be injustice felt really familiar to me. Days like today when a lot of negative interactions pile up I feel like that behavior is being done "to me". I am not denying that a lot of people could use an etiquette class but the point is I attach an extra level of resentment to it. I suspect it is because during most of my childhood I was treated unjustly. Just because my mother got sober didn't undo the underlying rage that bubbled for years but that I was forced to ignore in order to survive.

I was reading a book today on the pattern of feeling victimized, I find that I have this tendency. I was victimized so it is a habit that was built up during my most formative years. It doesn't serve me anymore. Instead it keeps me trapped, it causes me to see exploitation when none exists and often not know how to set clear boundaries to deal with actual exploitation.

Just because your father got sober at 12 doesn't mean that his drinking wasn't a part of your history. This is not about blaming him. For me it is about understanding why I react the way I do so that I can get unstuck and move forward. Some old behaviors no longer serve me. In some ways I need to learn to play, to take care of myself, to understand that fear has its purposes but that anxiety is a waste of time.

Not sure if you have looked at any books about ACoA but I related a lot to your share.

EndGameNYC

Hi Gibbons.

I'm sorry to read about your ongoing suffering, and I'm not interested in making you feel worse than you already do. Please take my comments as an effort to help you and not as criticism.

It appears that at some time, some how, something went terribly wrong for you. And you now find yourself in an infinite loop of self-fulfilling disappointment. You're unable to give yourself all that you need (love), and you won't allow yourself to get it from other people. They simply can't be trusted. That leaves you with a very short list. Like your pets. A dog will never cheat on you or lie to you, and they're always happy to see you. The epitome of unconditional love.

Life is so hard. It's amazing to me that anyone stays in a relationship, what with the many things that can and do go wrong. We're late for appointments, we forget birthdays and anniversaries, we leave our socks on the bedroom floor, we fail to run each and every errand that we're tasked with. We leave the toilet seat up, and we walk away from the fridge with but a drop of milk left in its container. We track dirt into the house, and show up late for work. Way say hurtful things, don't always notice when someone gets their hair cut, and don't always comment on how good someone looks.

It's very difficult -- sometimes painful -- to live or work with someone who does all the right things all the time. Embracing perfection is to embrace an illusion, like sea foam in our hands. We turn away wagging fondness because its bearer might $hit on the floor.

Yes, we all act in our own better interests, including being kind and giving to those we love. If we always did everything the right way, no one would notice because that's all we know. Love is what we do, not what we say. Love thrives in imperfection, and becomes meaningless when all things go as planned, and when all people are always and only loving.

Love would be a simple thing, a mere reflex, were everyone infinitely and absolutely lovable. But we're not. Love shines -- heals, even -- when we give it to someone despite their imperfections, and when we allow ourselves to take it in from others who are equally imperfect. Justice is not perfect in the world, but we do the best we can, given what we have.

It's true that you may not be able to get what it is you say you want on your terms. And that's just sad. You wrote that you need therapy, so I'm wondering why you don't avail yourself of outside help, unless of course you already do.

It's probably a good idea that you stop torturing yourself with your own virtues. Being "Daddy's little girl" generally happens only once in a lifetime.

least

I heard this a long time ago and still remember it.


"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you're a good person is a little like expecting the bull not to attack you because you're a vegetarian."

Life is just plain unfair sometimes. We have to understand and accept that or we'll go thru life always frustrated and unhappy.

friskme

Hello Gibbons,
I read your letter and some of your responses to comments. One of them stuck out and I can definitely relate to one. Being stoic when you don't want to be, that I can relate to. I think this goes back to our upbringing and how there are fairy tales we learned about, but then we had to unlearn those same stories as we grow up.
Then latter when our own life and story doesn't measure up to these stories, and we can't find them in others, life becomes tiring and maybe worthless.
I have been tired of being stoic. My husband was a huge disappointment--part of the live happily ever after myth. I felt betrayed by my family in different times of my life, and by different family members. I have had very friends cuz I don't trust people; and I was betrayed the last two times I considered being friends with someone.
Still, here I am...alive and kicking and trying to stay sober and stay in control of my life. When you give up being stoic, you are either dead, terminally ill (even here you have to be somewhat stoic) or you have been kidnapped and held hostage somewhere. The other side of stoic is hopelessness, and eventual loss of life.
I suggest meditation and aromatherapy. It helps. For me, it is better to be disappointed in others rather than being disappointed in myself. Stay true to yourself.....be good to yourself cause nobody else will.

mecanix

Good things happen to bad people , bad things happen to good people .

Seems to me you have some answers already and there are other shares here offering sage wisdom , i hope you act and deal with it all as it all sounds terribly burdensome,

Keep on

Bestwishes, m

CodeJob

Gibbons,

Reading your posts here makes me flinch with your raw pain. But I recognize the wall you have built because I have one too. Even "in love" I have ducked behind my wall "just in case" something goes wrong in the relationship. Then when my feelings get hurt, I can retreat behind my wall and pat myself on the back that I was right to be careful and keep that wall. I can throw anger and hurt bombs at the person who hurt me in self righteous anger. So I discovered this at age 44 - the problem is the wall. To mature and get out of my head, I need to dismantle the wall.

I have no idea how to do that. It is frightening. But that wall protected me as a kid growing up and it has been a real hindrance as an adult. I often feel safest not fully engaging. I hold back in a relationship due to lack of trust and memories of being hurt/deeply disappointed before. I expect perfection from others even when I miserably fail at such an impossible expectation. Is this really how my HP intended me to live my life? I doubt it.

I wish you peace and resolve. There are a lot of wise comments here for you. People - total strangers - take the time to respond to you here in utter truth and kindness.

Pipefish

Hi Gibbons

There's been some great sharing here. Thanks for posting and sparking it off with your letter.

I've never understood people that well either, for a whole variety of reasons, mainly because I never understood myself, where I came from, what made me who I am. Focusing on doing that more, and on other people less, seems the way to go, and you have some insights there already that can serve you well.

It's a relief to focus on that, the other people stuff, I have less (or no) control over. And the energy invested in reliving frustration, the second guessing. Not saying I never do that now (old habits die hard) but there is now a different experience to contrast it with, so it's possible to catch myself on, and there was a certainty in doing the same, thinking the same, being the same. Can still be unwilling to part with that, it's frightening. But the alternative...wasn't actually tenable to continue, and anything and everything that happens next only need be little by little.

Life is difficult, no two ways about that, and it can be disappointing. I disappoint others and find that difficult to live with, and they disappoint me, and that can be difficult to live with too. But the things you've described here are very human pains (growing pains?) and my choice is to know that while I'm alive, even if I drink, there is no way of avoiding that stuff. Everyone else has it too. And being sober, yes is painful sometimes, but at the very least, we can move out of being stuck in stuff that is past its sell by date, and doesn't work anymore.

What I'm beginning to notice is that when I cry, I really cry. Same when I laugh. These sound small, but that sense of being present to myself, and other people, when it happens, there's nothing like it.

Even if it seems there is nothing to hold onto, nothing worth trusting, what got me through these last three months is believing that the darkest hour is just before the dawn; actually sometimes not even believing that, but hoping it was because things were so painful, it didn't seem possible to live through sober. But it was, and because a good friend told me that, I chose to believe it could be true for me too, and when I couldn't hope, I just hung in there anyway. Bloody mindedness isn't always a curse (generally speaking it is, but....)

You're asking lots of and lots of questions, which must have others have suggested, be an awful lot to be carrying with you. Maybe they don't all need answers right now? The realisation that it's not possible to resolve all and everything at once, or overnight (it'd hardly be worth doing at all if that were true) helped a great deal, and sometimes, even possible through that process that the questions being asked change entirely.

Thanks for sharing with us. Wish you well

Gibbons2

Thank you all for your responses. It truly breaks my heart to know that complete strangers care. Care about me and take the time to post and have no idea who I am.

You know, I am so tired. I am so tired of being yes, angry. I am so tired of being a drunk. I am so tired of fighting life and sometimes myself.

I sit here, as the alcohol is still in my system, trying to feel better. Trying to accept the reason I drank last night. And what was the reason? I was bored, really, that was why. I used to it and as much as AA wants you to believe that drinking is about being a control freak (not saying I am NOT one), some of it is just a bad habit. It's what I am used to. It's what I cling to. But I will tell you what, it ISN'T who I am. I don't want my bad habits, drinking and smoking, to define WHO I am. I know I am more than this.

I always thought, years ago, that the first time I tried alcohol that I loved it, and I did, but you know what? That isn't true. The FIRST time I tried one of my Dad's beers as a child, I hated it. I drank like one or two drinks and wondered what was so great about this stuff. It tasted like sh*t. What on earth did my Dad see in it and why did he want it so bad? I would rather drink something that tasted good than that awlful stuff.

So today is Day One again for me. I circled it on my calendar. I'm tired of living my life with liquor, yet I also find it hard to live it sober. Not really because I want the alcohol so bad, but because without it I don't feel all that much. What I mean by that is that I don't know how to live with being bored. I don't know how to say what I mean when I am sober. I am so used to closing off my feelings, that I am a robot when sober, "Sure, everything is fine," I say. I told the ex once, "I can shut off my feelings like a light switch." Which is so what I am used to and yes, I know I got that at home.

And I was sober for 7 years, just put my faith in the BF because AA had taught me to care about me and that sometimes trusting strangers is better than trusting your own family. You see, I had let the family go. Not completely, of course, but I knew that what I was seeking from them just wasn't there. So I trusted the ex instead. Thought, much like those I met in AA, that would be better. It is what led me to drinking again. Putting my faith again (much like my Dad) in a man and not remembering that God is the one I seek. Trusting all of those f*cked up people (much like me) that maybe I put too much trust in.

I am ready to get sober, I really am. I am tired of being sick and angry and scared of my own feelings. I am tired of feeling bored and believing alcohol somehow is my answer to my questions, because I know it isn't. I am READY to stick my toe out and change.

I don't know if I will stay on this site or not. I am busy, of course, working and it really is hard for me to be on this site and spend time in an AA chat room. It's hard to be both places and I don't know if this site offers me what I seek. Years ago, I got sober by taking walks and spending time in an AA chat room. I wanted the real time conversations, because part of me is lonely too. It is why I always feel like I am "hacking it out" on my own.

An AA friend told me to "Get involved in something," and I need to. I need to feel like I am something to someone. That I am not just floating here in the abyss, alone, trying to fight my demons. I need help too.

Yet I think I will stay on here. I love that you guys answered me. I am truly humbled by the responses.