Shoshie8

If ever there was a time for telling fibs, it's facing down client entertainment when whisky is being ordered by the BOTTLE!

Another good one is "No thanks, I'm on a course of antibiotics." if it's a one-off social situation. Or for a real whopper "No thanks, I'm in training for the [insert City] Marathon."

Can't WAIT to try and pull that one off

BruceSA

Hi, Guys.
I guess I'm stuck on the horns of s dilema here. I try to be as good citizen. I pay my taxes, obey the law, etc, etc.
But in this case there will be drinking, and lots of it. Do I go along with it and blow my recovery so far (and it will probanly escallate) or do I look for a way out that keeps all parties satisfied? It's not like I'm lying on my tax return, this is almost life or death stuff for me. And the excuses (lies) have a ring of truth. I AM allergic to alcohol. Just pour some into me and see what happens. And I DO get headaches.

There is a moral dilema for me but I've seen these guys first hand. Some get carried to the door, others are semi comotose in the booth.

Help me out here please. If you were in my situation, what wouls you do please? I can't face another detox and this is a multibillion dollar project? Also to be hung over and making serious engineering decisions the next day is downright foolish and dangerous and irresponsible? I'm on 14 days now and I really don't want to watch it go down the tubes and start the agony again in a foreign country
Please let me know what you think?
Best wishes,
Bruce.

Dee74

Hi Bruce

For a long time I felt almost guilty or embarrassed about being sober...Drinking was so important to me I assumed it was as important to everyone else too...I had almost apologetic excuses, essays even, ready in my mind for why I wasn't drinking.

But you know what? there's power in a simple statement like no thanks too....no need to spill your whole story and, I believe, no need to lie

As far as support goes...if the steps are your thing, I think most places with a hotel probably have AA meetings somewhere in the city too

D

Aarryckha

As I already said, I see no problem with telling a little white lie. Is the lie you would tell to avoid alcohol hurting anyone? I'm going to guess no but taking that drink will.

Dee74

why would you want or need to be around people drinking themselves into unconsciousness Bruce?
what happened to 'Hotel, taxi to site, taxi back to hotel, sleep.' ?

Recovery meant changes for me. I didn't want to stick out like a sore thumb...I tried to be the same old guy doing the same old things, just sober. I wanted not to rock the boat.

but it didn't work.

You take a drink to look like you're part of the gang, you promise to yourself to sip it...
next thing you know the week is gone and you're back to drinking insane levels.

Trying to keep other people happy was making me unhappy....in fact I dunno about you Bruce but my drinking was killing me.

I really believe if I go back to my old life that's it for me.
It's not almost, it's literally life or death for me.

When I look at it that way? there's really only one choice, and if other people don't like it? tough.

It takes a little courage to walk slightly out of step with others, but I think you have it Bruce

I love who I am sober and I love the life I'm building.
I chose life, with no regrets.

D

sircaptnobvious

Have a good trip! Stay safe out there! We'll be here waiting for you!

BruceSA

Morning D

"why would you want or need to be around people drinking themselves into unconsciousness Bruce?
what happened to 'Hotel, taxi to site, taxi back to hotel, sleep.' ?"

Thanks for the insights. Most nights I'm going to be scuttling back to my hotel and will spend it preparing for the next day. But I know there's going to be at least one, maybe two "dinners" with the client where it normally gets a bit wild. To abstain from drinking in those environments is sometimes seen as "stand-offish" or "you're too good for us" or you're a cold fish. They unchain the company credit card and the fireworks begin.

Maybe a simple "I'm on medication (which I am)" will be the way to go. Alcohol abuse is about lies and deceit, so why perpetuate it? That's the truth and I'll stick to it.

Sorry I contemplated lying, even if it was to protect my 15 days now. I'm just petrified of this "one drink wonder". I wont be able to stop, I know that better than the palm of my hand.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow, guys. Lying (even if it's partly true) is not an option.

Thanks again and see you sober in a week.

Thank you too for all the good wishes.

All the best,

"Everything's gonna be all right"

Bruce.

BruceSA

Thanks Purpleknight.

Ethics VS going back to day 0. I'm still new at this and haven't perfected any street-wise way of getting out of a drinking situation. I guess I'm still unsure, scared, don't want to offend my client and that knowledge of how to deal with that will come in time. When these guys get sparked-up, they are hard-core drinkers.

I didn't mean to come across as someone who can lie with a straight face or is a habitual liar. This is something really serious for me - my first big test in 14-odd days of being stone cold sober.

I cant duck these invitations I'm going to have to go. Maybe with more experience like you guys I'll develop more "polished" ways of declining alcohol.

Sorry if I came across as deceitful, didn't mean to. I'm just a bit anxious as to how to deal with an issue that I know is going to surface.

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it.

All the best,

Bruce.

Dee74

Bruce, if saying you're on meds helps keep your resolve, then that's your call
I certainly won't think any less of you, man

You will have to think of a permanent strategy but I do understand it's 'whatever gets you through the night' right now.

D

BruceSA

Thank you Dee.

I just wish this job had come up in a few month's time when I would have had a bit more experience.

I am actually on medication for my restless legs, so there is a ring of truth there. Whether alcohol affects them I have no idea. But meds are meds, right?

As you know I'm very inexperienced at this kind of pressure and the engineering will be like a walk in the park compared to this.

Thank you for your understanding, I appreciate it more than you know.

Bruce.

Looking4Help123

Bruce I will be thinking about you as you are put to these new tests. Your "travel kit" seems well put together to me I would not have done half of those things!

See you when you get back

BruceSA

Thank you L4H,

Looking forward to this.

All the best,

Bruce.

EndGameNYC

Surely you're aware that these are not your only two choices?

Only alcoholics can make a moral dilemma out of a life-and-death situation.

I mean no insult, but your back-and-forth comments make it sound as though you're planning for a relapse.

I'm with Dee. A simple "No, thank you" should suffice.

BruceSA

Hi, Endgame,

I’m sure you’ve got way more experience in avoiding drinking situations than I have (I’m barely 4 weeks into this) but I must say I’m a little puzzled by your response and hopefully I have misinterpreted it.

I respect your views but I cannot accept them.
I went overseas sober and I came back sober.

I’m certainly not planning a relapse - that’s foreign to me, and I don’t believe it’s a subconscious thing either. The whole point of my request for advice was to elicit / debate tips to avoid the trap of getting Shanghaied into one drink (and then more) with a tricky bunch of characters who happen to be your clients.

Most of the guys in my line of work that I’ve met on jobs in SEA and Eastern Europe seem to have colossal drinking capabilities that are hard-wired into their DNA. A simple response like “I don’t drink” will probably work very well around a polite dinner table in Europe or North America or elsewhere, but it is almost frowned upon amongst the clients that I need to work with. Drinking there is an ethos, a lifestyle, and if you don’t drink it’s a sign of something wrong with you (ironically!).

I gave them a “believable” reason that I’m on medication and grudgingly there was an understanding. Certainly not a “come let me give you a hug” understanding, but at least they knew the reason. Tell them flat out “I can’t / don’t drink” and you’ll find yourself going uphill with the sun in your eyes immediately.

You’ve got to fit in as seamlessly as possible or you are going to battle really hard to get co-operation. I don’t think I’m trading my sobriety for “friendship”. I have a job to do with limited time and I need their support to get it done.
If, in my ignorance, and whilst wishing to keep in touch with my clients without alienating them by politely declining getting drunk, a Machiavellian approach was inappropriate, I will learn from that.

I came on here asking for advice, and most of it was very helpful – thank you to those folk who took the trouble. It’s about adjusting coping mechanisms for different countries, cultures, languages, religions, social norms and practices and other situations? One size (reason for not drinking) does not, I believe, fit all occasions.

Maybe this reply is a bit long and I’m using a steam-hammer to smash a chestnut but I wanted to emphasise that it’s not a straightforward out to just say “no thanks”. Not for me anyway in certain circumstances like the situations I’ve sketched above.

If you are used to wearing a specific jersey in Alaska, does that mean you must wear the same jersey in the Sahara?

Hopefully I misunderstood your post.

Keep well and sober.

EndGameNYC

Point taken.

Happy to know you're safe.

Dee74

I'm happy to know you made it on your terms too, Bruce.
I hope you find future trips get easier.

Welcome back

D

BruceSA

Hello, Endgame,

Thank you for your understanding, I do appreciate it!

Being a rookie, desperate times called for desperate measures, and I managed to fumble my way through it with out taking hits.

On the next (and other) trips I will just come straight out with thanks but no thanks and if there's an issue, well then so be it. I guess we have to become proud of who we are now?

Thank you again, Endgame,

Bruce.

BruceSA

Thank you Dee, I greatly appreciate it. It was a bit nerve wracking but next time, I'm just going to say, "no thanks". Time to "man-up". And if I get delays and nonsense, then I just follow the channels.

Thank you Dee!

Bruce.

Chilledice

You done it you made it there and back sober! really super proud of you brother! SUPER proud!

Sparkos

Hi Bruce
I'm delighted you made it. I was checking every day to await your return.
Preperation was everything wasn't it. You really did give it an awful lot of thought and made sure that you'd addressed everything you could think of.
I used your survival kit myself and it workrd for me too. Thankyou very much.