Nothing changes.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Its clear to me I'm not defending the guy who decided to rifle through the women's purse. Crime is crime, and the consequences are clear for crime and being an addict alcoholic is no justification for crime.
My comments were clearly about guy #2 consulting with others. Not everybody is going to see a crime and instantly be galvanised into action. Many people hesitate relative to their earlier experiences. To say that because one doesn't jump into the fray, they are somehow deficient in their sobriety is too far fetched for me, anyways. Hence my comments from that point on.
Its interesting to me how bringing personalities into whatever discussion go nowhere, and yet it happens all the time, so we know from that none of us are anywhere near perfection.
Anger is of course an acceptable feeling when a crime has been committed. Using that anger to justify projections onto the quality of sobriety of others at an AA meeting is not acceptable, to me anyways.
My comments were clearly about guy #2 consulting with others. Not everybody is going to see a crime and instantly be galvanised into action. Many people hesitate relative to their earlier experiences. To say that because one doesn't jump into the fray, they are somehow deficient in their sobriety is too far fetched for me, anyways. Hence my comments from that point on.
Its interesting to me how bringing personalities into whatever discussion go nowhere, and yet it happens all the time, so we know from that none of us are anywhere near perfection.
Anger is of course an acceptable feeling when a crime has been committed. Using that anger to justify projections onto the quality of sobriety of others at an AA meeting is not acceptable, to me anyways.
EndGame
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Hi Joe.
Enjoy reading your comments. You, RobbyRobot and a few others with longtime sobriety often post compelling, enlightened and enlightening stories and commentaries from your experience. And there are some newer people who demonstrate the wisdom that comes from learning from their own suffering.
Yeah, he was suspended, banned or whatever they call it from Facebook on two separate occasions, at least two that he admitted to. He had about a thousand friends in his first week; all but a handful were women. He was sanctioned because he was harassing (I'm not sure about what they called it) women who wanted nothing to do with him.
Enjoy reading your comments. You, RobbyRobot and a few others with longtime sobriety often post compelling, enlightened and enlightening stories and commentaries from your experience. And there are some newer people who demonstrate the wisdom that comes from learning from their own suffering.
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv 
Interesting you mention the facebook addiction too, cuz she absolutely has that, and in a real horrible and ugly way. She requested me as a friend (on the 2 accounts I have), then deleted and blocked me (and all other AA people) because someone in the rooms asked her what was up with her facebook posts. They're all incredibly angry, man hating, and teen (even tween) like, and she's a woman in her mid thirties. Seeing her posts was like watching a really horrible train wreck.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
Nothing changes....
IF... nothing changes.
It's sad to see people continuing the cycle. Yet as we've struggled with our own addictions, who among us has not continued our patterns at some point and to some degree or another?
That does not give anyone a free pass to be a douchebag or a thief.
If I saw that go down, I would immediately call the guy on it. On the spot. Accountability for one's actions is paramount to getting sober.... and to living 'right' in general.
That kind of thing cannot be allowed to fly and it's just another example of that individual needing to face the consequences of his actions.
Eventually, the guy will either hit consequences hard enough to make him get serious, or he will hit the ultimate consequence. It's nobody's job but his own to decide, but it IS our job in sobriety to honor what's right in order to honor our and maintain our own sobriety.
I don't mean that as a judgement of how you handled the situation, just an expression of my view.
IF... nothing changes.
It's sad to see people continuing the cycle. Yet as we've struggled with our own addictions, who among us has not continued our patterns at some point and to some degree or another?
That does not give anyone a free pass to be a douchebag or a thief.
If I saw that go down, I would immediately call the guy on it. On the spot. Accountability for one's actions is paramount to getting sober.... and to living 'right' in general.
That kind of thing cannot be allowed to fly and it's just another example of that individual needing to face the consequences of his actions.
Eventually, the guy will either hit consequences hard enough to make him get serious, or he will hit the ultimate consequence. It's nobody's job but his own to decide, but it IS our job in sobriety to honor what's right in order to honor our and maintain our own sobriety.
I don't mean that as a judgement of how you handled the situation, just an expression of my view.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Its a matter of degree, I suppose, when we decide to act on what is obviously a crime being done before our eyes. Petty theft is a crime to be sure. So is armed robbery and rape. I wonder how many of the posters here would so quickly step between a guy with a knife and a victim of abuse. I know I have. More then once. Its not surprising how fast the room cleared and I was left alone too. Successfully disarming a fool with a knife is no small matter.
I also wonder how many of the posters have actually stopped any crime first hand besides what is being talked about in this thread. You know, its easy to talk, and not so much to walk the talk. Its not surprising to me when people freeze because they are in fear of whatever. I'm not one of those guys that freeze, but I still remember when I used to be, as a young kid, and from that abuse I took on a different understanding.
I also wonder how many of the posters have actually stopped any crime first hand besides what is being talked about in this thread. You know, its easy to talk, and not so much to walk the talk. Its not surprising to me when people freeze because they are in fear of whatever. I'm not one of those guys that freeze, but I still remember when I used to be, as a young kid, and from that abuse I took on a different understanding.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 544
Question-
If nothing changes, why do you continue to go to these "meetings?"
Is it not more beneficial, natural and virtuous to gravitate towards those who are more likely to improve you? Given the choice, would it not be more beneficial to spend quality time with a friend like, say, Plato, than with a junkie stealing money out of a purse?
Just because the sign says "AA", does not mean its the place for you. The moment an environment begins to adversely affect you, instead of you positively affecting it, is the moment I would encourage you to walk away. Bad environments are like a pungent odor. The smell will stay on your clothes, and thus in your mind, long after you're gone. Thus, I'd rather avoid them altogether.
Good luck and God Bless
If nothing changes, why do you continue to go to these "meetings?"
Is it not more beneficial, natural and virtuous to gravitate towards those who are more likely to improve you? Given the choice, would it not be more beneficial to spend quality time with a friend like, say, Plato, than with a junkie stealing money out of a purse?
Just because the sign says "AA", does not mean its the place for you. The moment an environment begins to adversely affect you, instead of you positively affecting it, is the moment I would encourage you to walk away. Bad environments are like a pungent odor. The smell will stay on your clothes, and thus in your mind, long after you're gone. Thus, I'd rather avoid them altogether.
Good luck and God Bless
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,996
Originally Posted by jaynie04
Here's my take. What about the women whose purses were being rifled through? What if one of them had just gotten her first paycheck at the first job she had held since getting sober? Maybe another had her rent in an envelope? Or a woman who had just gotten a credit card in her own name after escaping an abusive spouse?
I believe that there are certain behaviors which must be absolutes whether in or out of AA. Guy #1 could have attended the meeting simply because he knows how the end of the hour goes and has observed that purses are left on chairs unattended. Unfortunately there are some people who will never get sober or play by the rules, I don't believe it means that people who happen to be in their path have to suffer while that person figures it out.
I think in terms of a fellowship practicing patience and tolerance is a gift that members bestow upon each other. But not acting logically when someone is taking advantage of someone not only harms the victim, but patronizes the perp.
I believe that there are certain behaviors which must be absolutes whether in or out of AA. Guy #1 could have attended the meeting simply because he knows how the end of the hour goes and has observed that purses are left on chairs unattended. Unfortunately there are some people who will never get sober or play by the rules, I don't believe it means that people who happen to be in their path have to suffer while that person figures it out.
I think in terms of a fellowship practicing patience and tolerance is a gift that members bestow upon each other. But not acting logically when someone is taking advantage of someone not only harms the victim, but patronizes the perp.
Thanks so much for this real life perspective.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 552
Well, suffice to say... Not all lowlifes are addicts, and not all addicts are lowlifes.
Robby- remember what it's like early on. There can be a lot of anger/oversensitivity and we sometimes say a lot of things we dont mean, or that we look back on and kinda' cringe. (I'm guilty too ;-)) You've been around a long time, I enjoy your posts a lot- but I am surprised by the exchange. You don't need it, you know? Don't bother with it. not worth it.
Robby- remember what it's like early on. There can be a lot of anger/oversensitivity and we sometimes say a lot of things we dont mean, or that we look back on and kinda' cringe. (I'm guilty too ;-)) You've been around a long time, I enjoy your posts a lot- but I am surprised by the exchange. You don't need it, you know? Don't bother with it. not worth it.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by EverySngleNight
Well, suffice to say... Not all lowlifes are addicts, and not all addicts are lowlifes.
Robby- remember what it's like early on. There can be a lot of anger/oversensitivity and we sometimes say a lot of things we dont mean, or that we look back on and kinda' cringe. (I'm guilty too ;-)) You've been around a long time, I enjoy your posts a lot- but I am surprised by the exchange. You don't need it, you know? Don't bother with it. not worth it.
Robby- remember what it's like early on. There can be a lot of anger/oversensitivity and we sometimes say a lot of things we dont mean, or that we look back on and kinda' cringe. (I'm guilty too ;-)) You've been around a long time, I enjoy your posts a lot- but I am surprised by the exchange. You don't need it, you know? Don't bother with it. not worth it.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Originally Posted by sugarbear1
The purse incident should have been stopped immediately.
I am so with you Sugarbear. Theft is theft. A lot of (even active) alcoholics do not steal and there is not excuse for that kind of criminal behavior. It also makes the rooms an unsafe place to be.What if that creep stole someone's last 20 dollars or money they needed to pay an important bill?
What's more important? The thief's fragile feelings and "sobriety" or someone being able to pay their phone or heating bill with money they have worked hard for?
If I saw someone doing that (whether in AA or somewhere else), you bet I would confront them (I have been in this situation before albeit not in AA and I did confront the thief).
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