UnixBer

While almost every time the AV is mentioned, it gives most people negative feelings. With an at least somewhat a positive attitude, I would start to approach the problem.

The AV "only" lies. It cannot bring to pass what it threatens with. (here without really knowing it, the AV has threatened me with physical disabilities, never being normal again, being permanently crazy/braindead, isolation, even death of friends).

Still it poses a problem. The lies themselves often cause pain, discomfort and temporary insecurity. This is not to start thinking negatively about it, it is just that it is. I've had a somewhat violent attitude towards the AV, and (as it would like) have forgotten gratitude, what I have, what the real situtation even is. Maybe this attitude needs to change, since the AV isn't really a "person". Or is it? These are just more lies on its part, on my part.

How complex and confounding addiction can be. But with a positive attitude one must remain sober.

I'd like to know if anyone can tell; how long did it take you to be able to enjoy life in a satisfactory way, where you no longer felt the subtle or powerful grip of the AV on your thinking or life?

Oldselfagain

Well my AV was REALLY nasty (a real bastard)! I've recently had hypnosis and I haven't heard from the bastard since.

IOAA2

Hi. I've been sober and haven't seriously wanted to drink for a lot of years. I understand that alcohol is cunning, baffling and insidious and that is the way it works for many. BUT occasionally it can be triggered by a nicely put together marketing (lying) add on TV and I might wonder what that tasted like. Fortunately I usually quickly think of poison and it leaves my mind. Fortunately it didn't long for me to stop romanticizing drinking.

BE WELL

Nonsensical

Only if you believe them.

If someone walked up to me and said "My nose can shoot bullets! Bang! Bang! You're Dead!" I doubt I'd feel much discomfort. More likely I'd think, what a strange thing to say.

UnixBer

Word. I've been thinking about hypnosis for quite some time now but just can't seem to get to it. It might be the answer to this. Aside from being sober.

Well... if it were that simple I'd say I'm in heaven. If my AV was stupid enough to tell straight lies to me in my face I would also be able to laugh here. But this AV is not stupid, it doesn't play fair. It is very cunning indeed and knows how to use subtle factors from all around and mix truth into its lies, to trigger something in the body at the right time (if so was bound to happen anyway) and use it to blame on some other factor x in the building of its grand puzzle of lies, which ultimately, in a twisted way, would lead into a lead-in into drinking thinking... where lies another one. That's how I've felt about it.

Nonsensical

True dat, it's a formidable enemy until you know it is there. It's like a puzzle you can't figure out and then someone shows you how it works and you palm your forehead for not seeing it sooner. After that, though, the puzzle isn't much of a challenge.

At the end of the day the AV always exposes itself by suggesting the cure to be something you know isn't the cure at all. No more mystery.

After a while one grows more adept at spotting it's trickery sooner. Just like you can pretty much figure out how a romantic comedy is going to end. Mr. AV only has so many plot twists. Sooner or later you'll see them all.

Happy Sobering!

jkb

My AV no longer "throws it out there" like it once did. It used to be "hey you want a drink" all the damn time. So, of-course, after a while it was quite easy to spot and it came to realize that the answer is "no I don't".

What it has had success with in the past is use of emotion. "You feel ____(sad, anxious, angry) all because your not drinking". Now I see that and say "No I don't want a drink to get rid of a feeling".

I am sure it will come up with other ideas and manipulations in the years to come but, the main thing I have to remember is that if it is a thought about drinking it is NOT ME. Therefore, it must be beast.

And I think this is what your getting at Unixbear.... is that the lies are causing you discomfort as I stated above with use of emotion?

So at any rate I feel comfortable NOW. I have almost 3 months of consecutive sobriety since I did allow myself to drink in November for an evening. Prior to that I had over 9 months.

Take your power back from the beast. Make a BP and the answer is always and forever no drinking. Once I put my BP in place I have definitely enjoyed life more. After all what is it going do about it? It cannot force me to do a flippin thing and I no longer drink. Not now and not ever. PERIOD.

Jess

zerothehero

I'm a believer in embracing the dog, or feeding your demons. In doing this, you tame the dog, befriend the demon.

I think of the AV this way. Instead of trying to push him back, I think of him like I do some old friends who were very confused and sometimes lied and stole from me. At first I was very angry, but then came to realize they weren't so much malicious as they were confused. They were addicts, after all. So, I think of the AV as an addict who wants some company. Rather than try to beat him down, I have compassion for him, and I put my arm around him. I give him a hug, acknowledge his existence, and just remind him he has no chance of sucking me in. He's my buddy. A very confused buddy. I don't need to kill him, I don't need to convince him of anything; I just need to let him be. If he comes around and decides to sober up, so be it. That would be great. Until then, he's gonna keep screwing up, and I'm not gonna let him take me down with him. He'll either figure it out or die along the way. It is what it is.

UnixBer

Thanks for the replies. This gives a very good foundation on how to deal with the AV. I acknowledge the fact that once you realize and fully believe that it is the AV, it loses power from that moment, but if there begins to come doubts about it it starts to gain momentum again. I had a lucid dream a few hours ago and this is a classic example how the AV inflitrates my dreamworld too. I'm moving fast in an old home to a place where I notice a door where there should be none. I enter and get ambushed by a demon after diving into the floor and then upon awakening for an hour or so I consider the option that I have an innate childhood fear of demons... But no, that was false. AV talk & manipulation.

Actually I could have written a few books on the "cures" and theories the AV has offered me in the past. It has been so cunning... It has been able to take quite huge proportions. At one time I started to believe in curses and learned 'psychic combat' on my own, basically obsessed about it. And so the AV arranged things that I fought imaginary people who were "illusionists" and I knew that it was based on their focus on constant visualizing and energy manipulation and I of course fought to kill. But it can be so convincing... IF you believe it.

Just decided to share some additional stuff here. But I know today that it was the AV all along. Strange but true.

UnixBer

I'd just like to add something about the AV mess that I shared from personal experience. Although it is based on an illusion and delirium-type symptomacy, it is still considered virtual training, and some of the information I've found turns out to be valid. So while I was fighting evil people from all angles in my own world I was basically doing a "virtual ninja tour"... I could see possibilities what could be, what really works and what does not. This is interesting...

I know there are many "kiddies" who like using their curses and spells on people they don't like and they wish they could. I've learned that in order for a person to have the talent to fire an actual damaging and powerful curse (I'd call it a thoughtform-complex) would already be so advanced and an enlightened human being, that they would in most likelyhood have no personal need to dominion over fellow beings. Since they dominate themselves. Easy point.
Then again those who feel inferior and haven't mastered themselves have the need to subdue and control others. Such people are those who have a fancy for curses and psychic attacks... but lack the real power to fire something really powerful. But here we see how nature works again. It's all natural.

Something of note also about religion and how some people believe that by praying against someone makes something happen to the other person. Well, sorry but I'm pretty certain this does not work. And anyway a few good laughs on the way. Hope you enjoyed reading...

Bruce292

The thing about AV is that it's me talking to me. I know all my weaknesses, fears, stresses, etc. When my AV get's going it often sounds very reasonable. The only thing that has helped me shut it off is meditation because it's a discipline that taught me how to control intrusive thoughts. The mind is a strange place ... at least it's strange between my ears.

UnixBer

I think you're right. While the AV is not our rational self, but a beast, it still becomes us because it operates thru the self. It knows what one knows.

Has meditation yielded permanent results with the AV?
I was also interested in meditation but felt that I needed to recover well enough in order to be able to do it with the nervous system.