MidnightBlue

Hi, all.

I am currently reading "Undisputed Truth" of Mike Tyson, and reached the chapter where he's sharing his experience about rehab and AA meetings. And I've come across a statement which sounds somewhat controversial to me "There's no recovery without relapsing".

There's quotation from the book:

"If you read anything about
A.A., you find that relapse is part of recovery. You can’t have recovery without relapse."

I somewhat disagree here...

I am not an AA person, and I somehow managed to get together my one year and about 3 months of sobriety without relapses. And I do hope it will stay that way.

So, I have two questions:

- The first one to those who are familiar with AA - is that really AA belief that you can't have recovery without relapses?

- The second one to all SR mates - what do you think about this statement?

Thank you all)

PurpleKnight

Not an AA goer either, but I suppose to me the statement is getting at, when we first decided to be Sober, was that it? no more alcohol, or did it take a few attempts.

I'm sure there are people out there, that quit first time and didn't look back, I wasn't one of them!

ScottFromWI

I think it's one man's opinion, a controversial man at that. Most people probably do relapse before they get sober for for good. And many continue relapsing or just flat out drinking their entire lives. I'm more worries about actively working on sobriety and helping others who are currently struggling.

least

All I know is that I relapsed constantly until I finally "got it". I've read that relapse is not part of recovery, it's part of the addiction.

FreeOwl

I've read the Big Book entirely a couple of times and I don't recall it ever saying there is no recovery without relapse.

I also know several old timers with a lotta time in sobriety who took up AA and never looked back. My sponsor has 26 years and never relapsed.

That said - I think that if we all honestly look at our own journey's that brought us to a conviction that we had a problem, we probably all have had some experience with "relapse" in the sense that maybe we've "quit for a while" or we've tried to control our drinking only to discover we couldn't.

Maybe the point being made is that in some ways - relapse is a very very common and perhaps almost-required part of the recovery process... since we all seem to try and trick ourselves into believing we don't really have a problem.

360shoes

Considering every morning for 15 years after I drank I pretty much said that's it but never actually did anything about it, I'm conflicted. It may look to an outsider that I just stopped and that was it but it sure doesn't feel that way to me.

I'm with Scott. Everybody has opinions and as long as I got to the stopping, that's what matters to me. I'm just happy there are so many ideas and ways to help people do what they need to do.

Awesome on the 1 year 3 months Midnight. I always enjoy reading your posts. Thank you.

Notmyrealname

Maybe Mike is speaking generally about recovery on the big picture, and not specific to one person's recovery? Because I'd agree with the idea that relapse is part of "recovery" on the macro scale, in that, for most people, one or more relapses will occur on that road of recovery.

If your sense is that he's saying everybody has to relapse to recover, then no, I don't agree with that, but as that makes little sense I assume that's not what he was saying (on the other hand this is an ex-pro boxer, and he's Mike Tyson, so perhaps I assume too much..)

Mizzuno

I attended AA for almost a year, and I do not think that I heard that statement before. I do understand the sentiment behind the statement though. Sometimes people have to walk back into the fire in order to see why they have chosen sobriety in the first place. I wish that I did not relapse, but I did and here I sit with more knowledge of my alcoholism than I had before. I did not learn my lesson all those times that I swore off alcohol. I would like to say that I believe I have learned it now. That being said, If I do not do something everyday that nurtures my sobriety, I could be back in a situation of relapse. I do not want to go there so I post on this forum and fight the good fight.

I do not think that relapse is required. I do think that people choose to forget why they have become sober, they stop working at recovery, and they find that maybe drinking was easier (in some respects) until everything falls apart again and it's more horrendous and life altering.

Great post.

seahorse661

I too think this is opinion. I have never heard this sentiment in AA. Also, when do you consider that recovery begins? First AA meeting? Leaving detox/rehab?
If its the first time that we make a decision to quit, then I suppose most people do relapse. Perhaps if they didn't they can't be considered to have a problem?

Regardless, I relapsed multiple times no matter which way it's defined

KateL

I'm not AA but I think he could have meant 'it is not unusual to relpase,' so to put people's minds at rest who have. As if to say, don't give up, it's fairly common. Many people relapse in recovery, but some don't relpase at all, so it's not really correct to state that as a fact.

LDT

I'm not in AA, and while I did relapse once after 18 months sobriety, I don't necessarily agree that there is no recovery without relapse. I know of people that have made sobriety stick with their first attempt. My uncle by marriage is one of them.

MemphisBlues

I don't think it's an AA thing, but an addiction thing. I know people with 30-plus years of sobriety in AA, and I've sat in meetings where people with sobriety in the teens even 20-plus years who had relapsed.

ForestRunner

I think the main problem with that statement is that it appears to condone relapses, which isn't helpful. If people were saying that all over this board, it might have the effect on some people to think, "hey, I'll relapse today, it's part of the process!" The better message is that relapse is possible, but not the end of the world. Work hard not to do it, but if you do, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try, try again...

MidnightBlue

Thanks for your responses, guys and gals. They all makes sense.

Seahorse - when do I consider sobriety begins? I think everyone has its own first milestone to start off this road, but speaking about my own experience it began when I realized that I had a problem and had something to do about that, came across this site, red around, realized that the only way is to quit alcohol for good and made this decision. Before I had never considered quitting for good since I believed I could somehow get back to my "normal" one glass of wine. So my sobriety began when I made this commitment not to drink any more.

digdug

Interesting topic, MB.

I am in AA and have heard many times that relapse is "a part" of recovery, but that it doesn't HAVE to be. AA stresses that everyone has their own journey. And no matter what, you are always welcome back.

Without trying to get all terminally unique, so far, I have been one and done. It makes me weirded out sometimes because almost everyone I know in the program has relapsed at some point. I only know a few people who have gotten it the first time.

So it worries it a bit. Am I doomed to relapse? Is it inevitable? I mean, I have no desire to drink. My obsession has been lifted. I work what I consider a pretty strong program. I know that if I do pick up, I will probably be dead within a week or two because that's the way I drank.

So I talked to my sponsor about it recently. He gave me a different perspective. Sure, in my 9+ months of sobriety in AA, I haven't picked up. But all those times I tried to secretly cut back or quit on my own before I came into the program and failed? Relapses. I drank every single day even though I wanted to stop; each day was a relapse. Over and over again, like groundhog day. Promise myself in the morning I won't drink or I'll only have x amount, and by 9pm, failed again.

But since I've been to rehab and have engaged in actual recovery, no I haven't relapsed. And I don't plan to. It's just not in the cards for me right now. I've done more than enough research. I've suffered the consequences. I just can't go back there.

Another point my sponsor made is that I can learn from the relapses of others. How easy it is for even strong people to slip back into old behaviors. To be able to recognize signs of relapse well before I actually pick up. To know that a quick return to pain and misery is right around the corner. But to also see that even if I do relapse, I can still come back to a meeting with my head held high.

I don't usually post in the relapse threads on SR. I don't know what to say because I haven't experienced periods of sobriety followed by relapse. But I read every single one. I soak it all in.

EternalQ

I guess everyone's different.

I don't use AA but I decided at the beginning relapse was not an option for me.
Not that I wasn't tempted. Of course I was. Constantly..

I believed then and pretty much believe now that if I drank again I might never quit again.
It took so much to stop the first time.

So for someone like me, to be told relapse is part of recovery, well that would surely be a disaster.

KateL

I reckon when people relapse in the beginning they sometimes think, 'oh well, this is it, didn't work,' give up and go back to their previous drinking habits, so it is soooo imortant to point out that it can happen, but if you keep on trying you will get there, don't feel bad about yourself etc etc. But as stated by Forest runner it shouldn't give carte blanche to people as an excuse to relapse, thinking, 'Never mind, I'll have a few tonght and try again tomorrw.' So it is a fiine line. People shouldn't say, it's abnormal to relpase, but on the same note, they shouldn't say,'yeah it's ok to relpase, everyone does it.' It has to be worded so carefully and maybe the wording Mike Tyson used was a bit off.xxx

Notimetoloose

I read or heard somewhere, may even be here on SR that..

Relapsing is more about addiction and not about recovery.
IMHO, This feels right to me and for me.

Carlotta

It is not an AA thing. I know some old timers who got it right the first time around.
Mr Tyson might be a member of AA but he obviously forgot about tradition 11:
Because now, what Mike T. (the AA member) is doing is enmeshing his personal opinion and approach to recovery with AA's and broadcasting it and for the general public it becomes one and the same.

heath480

I have never heard in AA that relapse is part of recovery.A relapse for an Alcoholic can be fatal,so to suggest it is acceptable and normal is very wrong.