Let's Change Our Thinking. Step Four: "Our Friends Don't Care"
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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Let's Change Our Thinking. Step Four: "Our Friends Don't Care"
Some of you may know that I've been posting some examples of what I think are the flawed thinking of addicts recently. Here's today's example. Please read it and post me your responses.
"Our friends don't care" We tell ourselves that our friends don't care if we drink or we take drugs. After all, all the people we hang out with now seem to be drinking or drugging as much as we do. And if we go out, we can always find someone to drink or take drugs with, it seems. We can have fun with them. Other people, who aren't really our friends, want us to stop. For example our parents or brothers and sisters or "boring" people. So we push them away or decide not to listen to what they are saying. Instead we tell ourselves that things will be OK, provided we spend most of our time with other people who are drinking or taking drugs.
I hope you find this a helpful concept to think about as we enter the new year. I look forward to reading what you all have to say.
"Our friends don't care" We tell ourselves that our friends don't care if we drink or we take drugs. After all, all the people we hang out with now seem to be drinking or drugging as much as we do. And if we go out, we can always find someone to drink or take drugs with, it seems. We can have fun with them. Other people, who aren't really our friends, want us to stop. For example our parents or brothers and sisters or "boring" people. So we push them away or decide not to listen to what they are saying. Instead we tell ourselves that things will be OK, provided we spend most of our time with other people who are drinking or taking drugs.
I hope you find this a helpful concept to think about as we enter the new year. I look forward to reading what you all have to say.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 392
Drinking and using buddies don't seem to care because they want us to keep using with them. That is the basis on which our relationship with them has been formed. Real true friends that love me want me to be the person that I am sober with them because they care more about me than getting high. I am just better company, more caring, more insightful, more compassionate, more emotionally available, and even funnier while sober.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,805
I used to think people were friends with me because I was a fun, wild and crazy partier. Now I think a lot of people are friends with me despite my over-the-top past drinking escapades, and for that I am very grateful.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Many people who stop drinking for a period of time find those "friends" were mostly drinking acquaintances.
We alcoholics in the beginning of sobriety have a tendency to complicate simple things. I found that it's inadvisable to hang with drinking people. After all what can they show us about not drinking?
BE WELL
We alcoholics in the beginning of sobriety have a tendency to complicate simple things. I found that it's inadvisable to hang with drinking people. After all what can they show us about not drinking?
BE WELL
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Water seeks it's own level.
It took me a long time to build my core group of drinking buddies who enabled me to drink as I pleased and where anything went when I drank around them. In early recovery I was offended that I lost a few of them. I mean, how shallow is it that just because I wasn't drinking that I couldn't hang with them and talk about all my problems and listen to theirs?
Then one day I really sat and thought about it. If the tables were turned and I was still drinking and they quit would I want to hang out with them? I'm embarrassed to say that the answer was no.
Alcoholics surround themselves with other alcoholics. It's our safety mechanism. Someone to share our love of alcohol with.
Of course we wanted to believe that our family and friends who wanted us to quit were jerks. To consider why they wanted us to quit would mean that we would have to let one ounce of belief in that maybe, just maybe we have a problem. Denial is key to someone who has a drinking problem. It must be maintained at all costs.
It took me a long time to build my core group of drinking buddies who enabled me to drink as I pleased and where anything went when I drank around them. In early recovery I was offended that I lost a few of them. I mean, how shallow is it that just because I wasn't drinking that I couldn't hang with them and talk about all my problems and listen to theirs?
Then one day I really sat and thought about it. If the tables were turned and I was still drinking and they quit would I want to hang out with them? I'm embarrassed to say that the answer was no.
Alcoholics surround themselves with other alcoholics. It's our safety mechanism. Someone to share our love of alcohol with.
Of course we wanted to believe that our family and friends who wanted us to quit were jerks. To consider why they wanted us to quit would mean that we would have to let one ounce of belief in that maybe, just maybe we have a problem. Denial is key to someone who has a drinking problem. It must be maintained at all costs.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
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Thank you for all your responses. Lady Blue, I think you explain the situation very well.
In some ways, this aspect of flawed thinking seems easier to change than others. If you're like me, you've probably cut yourself on from former drinking buddies in sobriety. I can't think of anyone at this point who really wants me to drink with them. In fact, everyone in my address book now would rather I stayed sober.
In some ways, this aspect of flawed thinking seems easier to change than others. If you're like me, you've probably cut yourself on from former drinking buddies in sobriety. I can't think of anyone at this point who really wants me to drink with them. In fact, everyone in my address book now would rather I stayed sober.
Clear Eyes Full Heart
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,272
I think it's sad that we do grow apart from former good friends when we quit drinking or drugging. I understand that we have to, and it's the nature of the beast, but it can be a bummer too.
I was aware even when I was drinking that I was making drinkers friends, rather than just making friends. When I moved and didn't know a soul, the first group I related to was in a bar. Not that I took any classes, or joined a gym, or made other efforts to meet people...I just went to the bar and met like spirits. (pun intended lol)
My core social circle is/was at a small local pub. I don't even get included in invites much anymore. I haven't been there much, I get easily bored, and I don't think they're comfortable with the idea that I'm sober and they're heavily drinking.
I have a very close friend in huge denial that continues to be hospitalized due to drinking. I wish she'd come over to our team!!
I was aware even when I was drinking that I was making drinkers friends, rather than just making friends. When I moved and didn't know a soul, the first group I related to was in a bar. Not that I took any classes, or joined a gym, or made other efforts to meet people...I just went to the bar and met like spirits. (pun intended lol)
My core social circle is/was at a small local pub. I don't even get included in invites much anymore. I haven't been there much, I get easily bored, and I don't think they're comfortable with the idea that I'm sober and they're heavily drinking.
I have a very close friend in huge denial that continues to be hospitalized due to drinking. I wish she'd come over to our team!!
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Good topic. I was thinking about this recently. Two New Year's Eve's ago I was on a US military base in east Africa. There was a designated watering hole where beer and wine were permitted. I was there every evening, of course. I made 'friends' with people whose company I didn't particularly care for because they never raised an eyebrow about drinking every night. They were doing it, too. (They were also willing to risk smuggling additional liquor onto the base, all I had to do was provide some cash for their trouble.) Sitting by myself and drinking every night might have exposed me for having a problem. Sitting with other people made it seem sociable. They were nothing to me but a means to drink more. I am sure I was the same to them.
When home I didn't bother finding drinking friends. In fact, I avoided having friends altogether. They might want to go somewhere or do something that would impede my drinking. I could (and did) drink at home alone. People who didn't live in my house were stunned to learn I had a drinking problem.
Now, at nearly 50, I am learning how to make friends and be a friend. It is unfamiliar territory, but now that I am sober I enjoy finding new challenges in life.
When home I didn't bother finding drinking friends. In fact, I avoided having friends altogether. They might want to go somewhere or do something that would impede my drinking. I could (and did) drink at home alone. People who didn't live in my house were stunned to learn I had a drinking problem.
Now, at nearly 50, I am learning how to make friends and be a friend. It is unfamiliar territory, but now that I am sober I enjoy finding new challenges in life.
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,115
I haven't spoken with any of my old drinking friends since I quit drinking and stopped going to the bar we always went to. Not one of them ever called/texted/emailed etc. I've strengthened neglected relationships with actual GOOD friends, and of course family. That's all ok by me!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,130
Yes, I detect a few notes of sadness here. And I rather underestimated how much work I'd have to do to make and keep friends after both a divorce and a drinking problem. I think I'm learning better techniques now but it's taken effort.
I'm starting a new "flawed thinking" thread shortly - please check it out and bring me your responses.
I'm starting a new "flawed thinking" thread shortly - please check it out and bring me your responses.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I mostly drank alone, but the fact that I was seriously messed up was obvious to everyone...and they said nothing to me. Apparently they were talking about it amongst themselves, but I thought they didn't care. Like, they didn't care that I was falling apart right before their eyes, because they didn't act like it.
That made me feel pretty hopeless and disposable. When I cleaned up I asked some friends and family members about it and they said they DID care, were really worried but didn't know what to say.
I don't know if it would have made a difference or not if they'd said something. But I do know I felt like no one cared.
That made me feel pretty hopeless and disposable. When I cleaned up I asked some friends and family members about it and they said they DID care, were really worried but didn't know what to say.
I don't know if it would have made a difference or not if they'd said something. But I do know I felt like no one cared.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: East Coast, The States
Posts: 12,162
I had gravitated toward the family and friends who were big on drinking. And any family and friends who in any way intimidated that drinking was not fun or normal I labeled in my mind as nerdy or inhibited or boring or nosey.
This makes me sad now.
Now I can see how hard it actually is to say something to someone about their problem drinking because they become defensive, lash out or push you away. They protect their drink at all costs.
It IS fundamentally threatening to have the substance you're addicted to threatened. It feels primitive. We think we need our substance to survive.... so it is like having our life threatened! Of course we DON'T need our substance to live (aside from the withdrawal factor) but when addicted, we don't know that, and we don't know we can be relieved of our dependence.
That's why I think the most powerful way to influence an addict is by example. I didn't know hardly anyone who overcame addiction. Once I did, through SR initially, then giving it up slowly felt less life and death. And intervention became less threatening.
I have kept some friends who have problem drinking, some severely alcoholic. These are friends who I love, who became addicted over time with me. I knew them before they were fully addicted as they knew me.
I would never allow them to abuse me in their addiction. I don't spend time with them when they're drunk. We have lunch or breakfast or meet at a museum or a movie. But in exchange for not hanging out drinking with them, I don't preach. I encourage them to ask questions and when they do I tell them all the things that helped me.
I don't know if they will ever become sober. But I know my sobriety has made an impression on them and planted a seed. I think it is painful on both our sides, but we are human and if anyone understands them I do. At least they can be themselves more with me, and do some non alcoholic activities. I know hiding my alcoholism, shame and not having role models were major obstacles for me and I don't want those to be obstacles for them.
This makes me sad now.
Now I can see how hard it actually is to say something to someone about their problem drinking because they become defensive, lash out or push you away. They protect their drink at all costs.
It IS fundamentally threatening to have the substance you're addicted to threatened. It feels primitive. We think we need our substance to survive.... so it is like having our life threatened! Of course we DON'T need our substance to live (aside from the withdrawal factor) but when addicted, we don't know that, and we don't know we can be relieved of our dependence.
That's why I think the most powerful way to influence an addict is by example. I didn't know hardly anyone who overcame addiction. Once I did, through SR initially, then giving it up slowly felt less life and death. And intervention became less threatening.
I have kept some friends who have problem drinking, some severely alcoholic. These are friends who I love, who became addicted over time with me. I knew them before they were fully addicted as they knew me.
I would never allow them to abuse me in their addiction. I don't spend time with them when they're drunk. We have lunch or breakfast or meet at a museum or a movie. But in exchange for not hanging out drinking with them, I don't preach. I encourage them to ask questions and when they do I tell them all the things that helped me.
I don't know if they will ever become sober. But I know my sobriety has made an impression on them and planted a seed. I think it is painful on both our sides, but we are human and if anyone understands them I do. At least they can be themselves more with me, and do some non alcoholic activities. I know hiding my alcoholism, shame and not having role models were major obstacles for me and I don't want those to be obstacles for them.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 552
This post!! OMG you're SOOO RIGHT!!!! I am the queen of this #4.. and I had no idea until I read this.
I have some extra time on my hands today... What with a blizzard and all! This post reminded me of a friend of mine. I missed a commitment we made because I was hungover. She called me an alcoholic and wanted me to get help. I went off on her. I pulled every single punch. I put a dagger in her every weakness.
We stopped communicating. After awhile, we got back in touch and I apologized for my behavior. I didn't acknowledge that she was right in calling me an alcoholic! But, I did take accountability for my response. Didn't I?
I still felt A response was called for. (I mean, I was SO deeply insulted! How dare she! ;-)) But, not the response that I pulled! We've been working on our friendship and she's really proud of me for going to treatment. She just sent me the sweetest text congratulating me on 30 days.
After reading this today, I realized that I was more wrong than what I apologized for. Honestly, she was only guilty of being a true friend to me when no one else had the balls to say it. (because they probably anticipated how I'd react LOL) "Well, she should've said it differently!" No. Just, NO.
I see it... I lashed out like that to protect "my precious". Had I acknowledged her "rightness", I would've had to face my problem. So, somehow I still felt justified- even through my apology. Which means, it wasn't the apology that she deserved...aka a totally half-a**ed apology...aka not really an apology at all. Right??
So I just told her that. And I thanked her too. And it made me cry... Because I hurt a true friend, and I just couldn't see it. Hopefully, this acknowledgment will help us heal our friendship. Maybe it won't, and that's okay too- she still deserves to hear it. We were like sisters and I really miss her. :-(
Thank you for this awesome post!!! It tangibly impacted my life today.
I have some extra time on my hands today... What with a blizzard and all! This post reminded me of a friend of mine. I missed a commitment we made because I was hungover. She called me an alcoholic and wanted me to get help. I went off on her. I pulled every single punch. I put a dagger in her every weakness.
We stopped communicating. After awhile, we got back in touch and I apologized for my behavior. I didn't acknowledge that she was right in calling me an alcoholic! But, I did take accountability for my response. Didn't I?
I still felt A response was called for. (I mean, I was SO deeply insulted! How dare she! ;-)) But, not the response that I pulled! We've been working on our friendship and she's really proud of me for going to treatment. She just sent me the sweetest text congratulating me on 30 days.
After reading this today, I realized that I was more wrong than what I apologized for. Honestly, she was only guilty of being a true friend to me when no one else had the balls to say it. (because they probably anticipated how I'd react LOL) "Well, she should've said it differently!" No. Just, NO.
I see it... I lashed out like that to protect "my precious". Had I acknowledged her "rightness", I would've had to face my problem. So, somehow I still felt justified- even through my apology. Which means, it wasn't the apology that she deserved...aka a totally half-a**ed apology...aka not really an apology at all. Right??
So I just told her that. And I thanked her too. And it made me cry... Because I hurt a true friend, and I just couldn't see it. Hopefully, this acknowledgment will help us heal our friendship. Maybe it won't, and that's okay too- she still deserves to hear it. We were like sisters and I really miss her. :-(
Thank you for this awesome post!!! It tangibly impacted my life today.
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