Rational Recovery
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
Rational Recovery
I am 8 days into my sobriety. I can always quit for months at a time. And then that lil' beast in my head (wait that BIG beast) in my head rationalizes, daydreams and ultimately talks me into a drink here and then a drink there and then eventually full on Binge out night. Only lasts a night. I'm not a multi day binger. However, I do my damage in the course of 1 night. I'm currently recovering from a few really bad falls where I split my knee and broke my thumb and apparently took the microphone from the MC at a burlesque show and then just layed on the dance floor with it. And all in front of my ex-husband and his new wife... yah... So I've made the permanent choice. I have been reading up on Rational Recovery and I think this will be the method for me. I have tried AA and it is such a cool place with loving members. However, it just isn't for me. I do not like the social aspect or the time commitment of having to physically be in meetings. I don't buy into that part of it. I think that 'my' drinking is totally lack of self control and self indulgence. I'm ashamed of myself. But I am picking it up and moving on. Does anyone have any experience good or bad with Rational Recovery?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Posts: 5,100
I have used Rational recovery, specifically AVRT. Some say that it has to work the first time. I failed to recognize my own beast and went back to the bottle. But I'm now back on track and using the technique.
There is a section here called secular connections aimed at this approach.
Good luck with your sobriety!
There is a section here called secular connections aimed at this approach.
Good luck with your sobriety!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North salt lake
Posts: 3,325
Don't know about rational recovery. However if your drinking is a result of lack of control and self indulgence, you don't have a lot of knowledge about alcoholism. I'm an alcoholic. My drinking is a result of the disease of alcoholism. Drinking because of Self indulgence is a character defect and a moral issue. That is not alcoholism.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Welcome to SR.
Recovery works, regardless of the method, if you work at your recovery. Recovery through AA isn't just going to meetings. And Rational Recovery isn't just reading a book and saying your AV is your problem. There's work required in learning to live sober.
Good luck.
Recovery works, regardless of the method, if you work at your recovery. Recovery through AA isn't just going to meetings. And Rational Recovery isn't just reading a book and saying your AV is your problem. There's work required in learning to live sober.
Good luck.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Quite a few people in the Secular Connections forum are using Rational Recovery. Good place to discuss it.
Quite a few people in the Secular Connections forum are using Rational Recovery. Good place to discuss it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
[QUOTE=sunshine72;4341937]I am 8 days into my sobriety. I have tried AA and it is such a cool place with loving members. However, it just isn't for me. I do not like the social aspect or the time commitment of having to physically be in meetings. I don't buy into that part of it. I think that 'my' drinking is totally lack of self control and self indulgence. I'm ashamed of myself. QUOTE]
Hi. When I first got involved in AA some of my thinking was like yours. Well after many years of experience in the fellowship I still find my first thoughts invalid.
My drinking was to escape from MY feelings which I needed to recognize and deal with for long term sobriety. I needed to learn from flesh people how they deal with their emotions and triggers. This takes time and self honesty which can result in being comfortable in our own skin. Yes there are the same bumps in the road but we learn how to react without trying to escape.
BE WELL
Hi. When I first got involved in AA some of my thinking was like yours. Well after many years of experience in the fellowship I still find my first thoughts invalid.
My drinking was to escape from MY feelings which I needed to recognize and deal with for long term sobriety. I needed to learn from flesh people how they deal with their emotions and triggers. This takes time and self honesty which can result in being comfortable in our own skin. Yes there are the same bumps in the road but we learn how to react without trying to escape.
BE WELL
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
welcome toSR.
you're going to get several different opinions.
i do not subscribe to disease concept or AA program either...31 months sober( i don't count), i'm just now a non drinker normal person. or trying to be logical.
tired of embarrassment was a big thing for me too.
i don't follow much of a big plan or program, i try to be sensible and log in here daily.
whatever helps you is good method.
you're going to get several different opinions.
i do not subscribe to disease concept or AA program either...31 months sober( i don't count), i'm just now a non drinker normal person. or trying to be logical.
tired of embarrassment was a big thing for me too.
i don't follow much of a big plan or program, i try to be sensible and log in here daily.
whatever helps you is good method.
Kaleidoscope eyes
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Posts: 5,243
Originally Posted by Fandy 
welcome toSR.
you're going to get several different opinions.
i do not subscribe to disease concept or AA program either...31 months sober( i don't count), i'm just now a non drinker normal person. or trying to be logical.
tired of embarrassment was a big thing for me too.
i don't follow much of a big plan or program, i try to be sensible and log in here daily.
whatever helps you is good method.
you're going to get several different opinions.
i do not subscribe to disease concept or AA program either...31 months sober( i don't count), i'm just now a non drinker normal person. or trying to be logical.
tired of embarrassment was a big thing for me too.
i don't follow much of a big plan or program, i try to be sensible and log in here daily.
whatever helps you is good method.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by Raider
Don't know about rational recovery. However if your drinking is a result of lack of control and self indulgence, you don't have a lot of knowledge about alcoholism. I'm an alcoholic. My drinking is a result of the disease of alcoholism. Drinking because of Self indulgence is a character defect and a moral issue. That is not alcoholism.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 222
I just finished reading rational recovery, the new cure and it resonated with me and I am using AVRT and mindfulness as my tools. I'm not an AA type of person for many reasons. I'm not going to struggle my whole life or be on recovery my whole life. I'm only on day 28 do I am a bit green to speak, but I am a non drinker.
" I will never drink again and I will not change my mind"
That being said, you have to find what works for you, perhaps you can liken it to trying on different pairs of glasses.
Do a search in the secular thread for AVRT, you will find lots of good long threads there.
Be kind to yourself
" I will never drink again and I will not change my mind"
That being said, you have to find what works for you, perhaps you can liken it to trying on different pairs of glasses.
Do a search in the secular thread for AVRT, you will find lots of good long threads there.
Be kind to yourself
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by sunshine72
I am 8 days into my sobriety. I can always quit for months at a time. And then that lil' beast in my head (wait that BIG beast) in my head rationalizes, daydreams and ultimately talks me into a drink here and then a drink there and then eventually full on Binge out night. Only lasts a night. I'm not a multi day binger. However, I do my damage in the course of 1 night. I'm currently recovering from a few really bad falls where I split my knee and broke my thumb and apparently took the microphone from the MC at a burlesque show and then just layed on the dance floor with it. And all in front of my ex-husband and his new wife... yah... So I've made the permanent choice. I have been reading up on Rational Recovery and I think this will be the method for me. I have tried AA and it is such a cool place with loving members. However, it just isn't for me. I do not like the social aspect or the time commitment of having to physically be in meetings. I don't buy into that part of it. I think that 'my' drinking is totally lack of self control and self indulgence. I'm ashamed of myself. But I am picking it up and moving on. Does anyone have any experience good or bad with Rational Recovery?
You and I both used to be episodic drinkers. At one point I chose to make my last drink my very last drink. You may now choose to do that as well. Welcome to the option of becoming a permanent abstainer. Think very realistically about the possibility that you WILL NEVER experience the sensation of having alcohol in your blood, EVER AGAIN.
Rational Recovery's AVR Technique is designed to get people there as quickly as possible, and at the same time let them live life the way they want.
I, too, learned that my drinking was "totally lack of self control". I experimented with moderation a lot, but always found that the ME who wanted to moderate became absent from the universe after several drinks. But that ME who wanted to moderate would come back after the last hangover was forgotten.
I also learned, as you, that my drinking was a "self-indulgence" that I became "ashamed of". This is the prime motivator in Rational Recovery - the simple but powerful understanding that any more drinking, ever, is just plain WRONG for me. And you don't need to know anything about the ism of "alcoholism" in order to succeed with Rational Recovery's AVRT.
If you start putting your "drinking" into the past tense, you will be well on your way.
I think that 'my' drinking WAS totally lack of self control and self indulgence, because it's not going to happen any more.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
[QUOTE=IOAA2;4342658] I totally appreciate and respect your post. My issue isn't to escape anything though. I've dealt with any unresolved issues through therapy and tons of self-help books, etc... out there. I'm at peace with my feelings and who I am. My issue is with not being able to stop drinking until I am drunk. Does that make sense?
So I just don't want to drink ever again. I'm good with my emotions and everything else in my life. I am blessed with all that I do have.
Originally Posted by sunshine72
I am 8 days into my sobriety. I have tried AA and it is such a cool place with loving members. However, it just isn't for me. I do not like the social aspect or the time commitment of having to physically be in meetings. I don't buy into that part of it. I think that 'my' drinking is totally lack of self control and self indulgence. I'm ashamed of myself. QUOTE]
Hi. When I first got involved in AA some of my thinking was like yours. Well after many years of experience in the fellowship I still find my first thoughts invalid.
My drinking was to escape from MY feelings which I needed to recognize and deal with for long term sobriety. I needed to learn from flesh people how they deal with their emotions and triggers. This takes time and self honesty which can result in being comfortable in our own skin. Yes there are the same bumps in the road but we learn how to react without trying to escape.
BE WELL
Hi. When I first got involved in AA some of my thinking was like yours. Well after many years of experience in the fellowship I still find my first thoughts invalid.
My drinking was to escape from MY feelings which I needed to recognize and deal with for long term sobriety. I needed to learn from flesh people how they deal with their emotions and triggers. This takes time and self honesty which can result in being comfortable in our own skin. Yes there are the same bumps in the road but we learn how to react without trying to escape.
BE WELL
So I just don't want to drink ever again. I'm good with my emotions and everything else in my life. I am blessed with all that I do have.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by GerandTwine
Yes, all good.
You and I both used to be episodic drinkers. At one point I chose to make my last drink my very last drink. You may now choose to do that as well. Welcome to the option of becoming a permanent abstainer. Think very realistically about the possibility that you WILL NEVER experience the sensation of having alcohol in your blood, EVER AGAIN.
Rational Recovery's AVR Technique is designed to get people there as quickly as possible, and at the same time let them live life the way they want.
I, too, learned that my drinking was "totally lack of self control". I experimented with moderation a lot, but always found that the ME who wanted to moderate became absent from the universe after several drinks. But that ME who wanted to moderate would come back after the last hangover was forgotten.
I also learned, as you, that my drinking was a "self-indulgence" that I became "ashamed of". This is the prime motivator in Rational Recovery - the simple but powerful understanding that any more drinking, ever, is just plain WRONG for me. And you don't need to know anything about the ism of "alcoholism" in order to succeed with Rational Recovery's AVRT.
If you start putting your "drinking" into the past tense, you will be well on your way.
You and I both used to be episodic drinkers. At one point I chose to make my last drink my very last drink. You may now choose to do that as well. Welcome to the option of becoming a permanent abstainer. Think very realistically about the possibility that you WILL NEVER experience the sensation of having alcohol in your blood, EVER AGAIN.
Rational Recovery's AVR Technique is designed to get people there as quickly as possible, and at the same time let them live life the way they want.
I, too, learned that my drinking was "totally lack of self control". I experimented with moderation a lot, but always found that the ME who wanted to moderate became absent from the universe after several drinks. But that ME who wanted to moderate would come back after the last hangover was forgotten.
I also learned, as you, that my drinking was a "self-indulgence" that I became "ashamed of". This is the prime motivator in Rational Recovery - the simple but powerful understanding that any more drinking, ever, is just plain WRONG for me. And you don't need to know anything about the ism of "alcoholism" in order to succeed with Rational Recovery's AVRT.
If you start putting your "drinking" into the past tense, you will be well on your way.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by sunshine72
LOVE your post! You hit me right on the money!!! Thank goodness I"m not the only one that feels this way about handling this beast.
Well, here on SR, we are incognito, which is quite a nice feature for learning AVRT.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Hi Sunshine, glad to have you aboard! You will find lots of support here for you. If you like GT's understanding of the 'lil beast in your head', then you are in very good company. We are not at the fringes, but right smack dab in the majority - most of us who were formerly dependent on alcohol, about 75%, quit without recourse to any formal program.
My understanding of alcoholism was that I did it, initially anyway, for the pure pleasure of it, and I chased that buzz and others like it for decades. It really started to mess with my mental health and I did stuff I am not proud of while in active addiction. At the end, I was drinking not for the pleasure of it but to quiet my mind that had become afflicted with depression and anxiety, and to deal with the physical withdrawal from not having consumed any for a few hours. I was pretty messed up.
My time came when I decided to face my demons sober, whatever they were. After a short time sober, those demons had shrunk to manageable size, and the rest of them disappeared altogether. I did this by learning to recognize what I called My Parasite, what you call your lil beast. I made my choice to quit drinking, and any thoughts of ever doing that again, or doubt in my ability to do it, were from that addiction voice. Not me, not anymore.
Soon after this, I learned what I had been doing has a name, AVRT. That is really just a collection of ideas that folks have been using to quit alcohol for thousands of years.
Anyway, there is lots of discussion of this and other ways to empower yourself in our Secular Connections forum. On your way there, remember to believe in yourself and your ability. You can quit and you can stay quit. Onward!
My understanding of alcoholism was that I did it, initially anyway, for the pure pleasure of it, and I chased that buzz and others like it for decades. It really started to mess with my mental health and I did stuff I am not proud of while in active addiction. At the end, I was drinking not for the pleasure of it but to quiet my mind that had become afflicted with depression and anxiety, and to deal with the physical withdrawal from not having consumed any for a few hours. I was pretty messed up.
My time came when I decided to face my demons sober, whatever they were. After a short time sober, those demons had shrunk to manageable size, and the rest of them disappeared altogether. I did this by learning to recognize what I called My Parasite, what you call your lil beast. I made my choice to quit drinking, and any thoughts of ever doing that again, or doubt in my ability to do it, were from that addiction voice. Not me, not anymore.
Soon after this, I learned what I had been doing has a name, AVRT. That is really just a collection of ideas that folks have been using to quit alcohol for thousands of years.
Anyway, there is lots of discussion of this and other ways to empower yourself in our Secular Connections forum. On your way there, remember to believe in yourself and your ability. You can quit and you can stay quit. Onward!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
Originally Posted by freshstart57
We are not at the fringes, but right smack dab in the majority
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
[QUOTE=sunshine72;4343095]
I totally appreciate and respect your post. My issue isn't to escape anything though. I've dealt with any unresolved issues through therapy and tons of self-help books, etc... out there. I'm at peace with my feelings and who I am.
My issue is with not being able to stop drinking until I am drunk. Does that make sense?
So I just don't want to drink ever again. I'm good with my emotions and everything else in my life. I am blessed with all that I do have. Hi. Your issue is called alcoholism in the medical community and among members of AA. It's cunning, baffling and powerful and says we are ok even though many times we try to disprove we are alcoholic. There are millions in AA and the vast majority find they need to work on the feelings and emotions that are at the base of their drinking problem. We find that a lot of time and work is involved along with self honesty regarding our problem. Those that don't recover look for the softer easier way which I'm afraid is non existent for the long term.
Not bragging but the above is based on many years of experience along with about 15,000 meetings.
BE WELL
Originally Posted by IOAA2
I totally appreciate and respect your post. My issue isn't to escape anything though. I've dealt with any unresolved issues through therapy and tons of self-help books, etc... out there. I'm at peace with my feelings and who I am.
My issue is with not being able to stop drinking until I am drunk. Does that make sense?
So I just don't want to drink ever again. I'm good with my emotions and everything else in my life. I am blessed with all that I do have.
Not bragging but the above is based on many years of experience along with about 15,000 meetings.
BE WELL
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,533
[QUOTE=IOAA2;4343203]
Hi. Your issue is called alcoholism in the medical community and among members of AA. It's cunning, baffling and powerful and says we are ok even though many times we try to disprove we are alcoholic. There are millions in AA and the vast majority find they need to work on the feelings and emotions that are at the base of their drinking problem. We find that a lot of time and work is involved along with self honesty regarding our problem. Those that don't recover look for the softer easier way which I'm afraid is non existent for the long term.
Not bragging but the above is based on many years of experience along with about 15,000 meetings.
BE WELL Definitely alcoholic here. No denying that. AA works great for allot of you. Not so much for others. We are all wired differently. I'm so happy to have found SR. So many choices so just because you are an alcoholic doesn't mean you are painted into a corner with 1 program. I don't think that anyone who is serious about kicking it considers any approach to be soft or easy. I think AVRT is almost as hardcore as AA because that is one heck of a commitment to make. Thank you for your post.
Originally Posted by sunshine72
Hi. Your issue is called alcoholism in the medical community and among members of AA. It's cunning, baffling and powerful and says we are ok even though many times we try to disprove we are alcoholic. There are millions in AA and the vast majority find they need to work on the feelings and emotions that are at the base of their drinking problem. We find that a lot of time and work is involved along with self honesty regarding our problem. Those that don't recover look for the softer easier way which I'm afraid is non existent for the long term.
Not bragging but the above is based on many years of experience along with about 15,000 meetings.
BE WELL
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
to SRI am glad you decided to join us and made a commitment to quit. Whatever method works for you, stick to it and don't pick up the first drink no matter what.
You will find a lot of support here.
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