Not really a important question
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Not really a important question
I've heard the term alcoholic , alcohol dependent , alcohol abuse and alcohol addiction they seem interchangable .
any ways I was looking at a map of the world shade in blue to denote country alcohol consumptiom per capita russia and ex soviet block countrys were the heaviest drinkers . I remember reading that stalin used to have diners where alcohol was more or less forced upon his guest the book stated that many of his inner circle became alcoholics . I was under the impression that we had some somewhat rare genetic disposition to process alcohol difrent then non drinkers ? if you made someone drink for a long enough time would they become a alcoholic or just get addicted ?
any ways I was looking at a map of the world shade in blue to denote country alcohol consumptiom per capita russia and ex soviet block countrys were the heaviest drinkers . I remember reading that stalin used to have diners where alcohol was more or less forced upon his guest the book stated that many of his inner circle became alcoholics . I was under the impression that we had some somewhat rare genetic disposition to process alcohol difrent then non drinkers ? if you made someone drink for a long enough time would they become a alcoholic or just get addicted ?
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Join Date: May 2013
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I haven't given this too much thought myself but I know 3 people from AA who believe they became alcoholic because they drank too much, too often for too long. They did irreversible physical damage and they now have cravings after any alcohol consumption. It seems to me that they get to that point later than I did, after 20 years, say, whereas I drank alcoholically from day 1
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ABE, I think there are as many varieties of alcoholics as there are people. I know I drank for a long time before it became a problem, but I always loved drinking from the very start.
If you drink heavily on a regular basis you start to crave it because your body chemistry has altered to cope with metabolising the alcohol. So I can see why some people would become alcoholics by habit. Then there are others who can't touch a drop without reverting instantly to alcoholic behaviours. And everything in between.
I think that's why the 'Am I an Alcoholic?' questionnaires contain social/family questions. Within reason, the actual intake is less important that the effects on others and the ability to moderate.
If you drink heavily on a regular basis you start to crave it because your body chemistry has altered to cope with metabolising the alcohol. So I can see why some people would become alcoholics by habit. Then there are others who can't touch a drop without reverting instantly to alcoholic behaviours. And everything in between.
I think that's why the 'Am I an Alcoholic?' questionnaires contain social/family questions. Within reason, the actual intake is less important that the effects on others and the ability to moderate.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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The term "Real Alcoholic" is often used by some of us to distinguish between Moderate Drinkers and Hard Drinkers.
Moderate Drinkers can take it or leave it alone
Hard Drinkers can stop
Real Alcoholic, ( that's me) is what I identify with, where once I take a drink, no matter how small, I have a instant progressive change of personality and crave for more alcohol. So the way my body "deals" with alcohol is different than moderate or hard drinkers. I will drink so much where there is no guarantee my actions would seem normal or sober. I become a drunk, a hopeless drunk unable to control or stop my drinking. If the money runs out, I have stolen alcohol just to get that "one more drink". It's never enough.
If I black out, I may wake up in a gutter or lock-up cell with an appointment date to see the judge.
Therefore I consider and accepted, "I'm a real alcoholic, that's why I don't drink alcohol".
Some may start off as moderate drinkers, may progress as hard drinkers and at some point in time of their drinking career may cross that invisible line into real alcoholics. In effect their body's have become "victim" to the progressive damage alcohol does to liver and pancreas, which produce the enzymes to metabolize alcohol. Those 2 organs begin to break down, therefore the metabolic process breaks down because the enzymes are simply not there in quantity or quality to break down the alcohol fast enough, this has been proven to show a craving for more alcohol, ( Physical )
Then the mind, (Mental) is to weak to say, "No", as the craving increases.
The Spirit of the person is "broken" by these alcoholic consequences at some point in time. Not everyone is the same.
It's not a theory, it's insanity in motion, ( car accidents/deaths, family suffering,prisons, "wet brain" wards in mental hospitals,homeless etc etc).
It's easier and sane to not drink and stay away from these drinking ideas of Stalin!
Moderate Drinkers can take it or leave it alone
Hard Drinkers can stop
Real Alcoholic, ( that's me) is what I identify with, where once I take a drink, no matter how small, I have a instant progressive change of personality and crave for more alcohol. So the way my body "deals" with alcohol is different than moderate or hard drinkers. I will drink so much where there is no guarantee my actions would seem normal or sober. I become a drunk, a hopeless drunk unable to control or stop my drinking. If the money runs out, I have stolen alcohol just to get that "one more drink". It's never enough.
If I black out, I may wake up in a gutter or lock-up cell with an appointment date to see the judge.
Therefore I consider and accepted, "I'm a real alcoholic, that's why I don't drink alcohol".
Some may start off as moderate drinkers, may progress as hard drinkers and at some point in time of their drinking career may cross that invisible line into real alcoholics. In effect their body's have become "victim" to the progressive damage alcohol does to liver and pancreas, which produce the enzymes to metabolize alcohol. Those 2 organs begin to break down, therefore the metabolic process breaks down because the enzymes are simply not there in quantity or quality to break down the alcohol fast enough, this has been proven to show a craving for more alcohol, ( Physical )
Then the mind, (Mental) is to weak to say, "No", as the craving increases.
The Spirit of the person is "broken" by these alcoholic consequences at some point in time. Not everyone is the same.
It's not a theory, it's insanity in motion, ( car accidents/deaths, family suffering,prisons, "wet brain" wards in mental hospitals,homeless etc etc).
It's easier and sane to not drink and stay away from these drinking ideas of Stalin!
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
I see two questions................:
1) I was under the impression that we had some somewhat rare genetic disposition to process alcohol differently than non drinkers.
2) If you made someone drink for a long enough time would they become a alcoholic or just get addicted?
Two answers........(short 'n sweet)..........:
1) Absolutely correct.
2) Their body might become dependent on alcohol, but they wouldn't become an alcoholic (unless they had the 'rare genetic disposition to process alcohol differently than others'). Just drinking does not an alcoholic make.
(o:
NoelleR
1) I was under the impression that we had some somewhat rare genetic disposition to process alcohol differently than non drinkers.
2) If you made someone drink for a long enough time would they become a alcoholic or just get addicted?
Two answers........(short 'n sweet)..........:
1) Absolutely correct.
2) Their body might become dependent on alcohol, but they wouldn't become an alcoholic (unless they had the 'rare genetic disposition to process alcohol differently than others'). Just drinking does not an alcoholic make.
(o:
NoelleR
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
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I am a compulsive person so when I have a drink, a potato chip, a teaspoon of ice cream or things that please me I mostly want more. The pleasure I got from alcohol was the pleasant feelings then the "I don't care attitude" attitude and problems SEEMED to go away. It seems that feeling overrode most of my common sense until I faced the fact that I could not drink alcohol in safety, which took too long when dishonesty about my drinking is factored in. Today I've learned to deal with what I was running away from and my life is so much better tho never perfect because I don't isolate from life as much anymore.
BE WELL
BE WELL
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
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I use the term alcoholic as shorthand for alcohol addicted. Anyone who drinks enough alcohol for long enough will become addicted. While some people will have a genetic disposition to become addicted, the biophysical mechanisms are multiple and interdependent in ways that are not clearly understood. Moreover, social, environmental, and habitual factors must be factored into the equation.
For me, the important relationship is that drinking causes problems in my life and I do not naturally or logically adjust my drinking to avoid the problems.
For me, the important relationship is that drinking causes problems in my life and I do not naturally or logically adjust my drinking to avoid the problems.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
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Originally Posted by jazzfish 
I use the term alcoholic as shorthand for alcohol addicted. Anyone who drinks enough alcohol for long enough will become addicted. .
Definition
By Mayo Clinic staff
"Alcoholism is a chronic and often progressive disease that includes problems controlling your drinking, being preoccupied with alcohol, continuing to use alcohol even when it causes problems, having to drink more to get the same effect (physical dependence), or having withdrawal symptoms when you rapidly decrease or stop drinking. If you have alcoholism, you can't consistently predict how much you'll drink, how long you'll drink, or what consequences will occur from your drinking.
It's possible to have a problem with alcohol, even when it has not progressed to the point of alcoholism. Problem drinking means you drink too much at times, causing repeated problems in your life, although you're not completely dependent on alcohol.”
Better when never is never
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Originally Posted by IOAA2
There are many people who drink on a daily basis who are not alcoholics. I'd call them daily or heavy drinkers.
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I tried to figure this one out for years. I didn't seem to fit in one category or another. I seemed to be the one in the middle. I never understood why I didn't either a) grow out of it or b) become a raging alcoholic. I drank. Once I started 95% I couldn't stop when I wanted to. I drank many years most evenings yet never really increased the amount over the years. Just maintained the same old 1 maybe 2 bottles of wine. For 15 years. Never felt the need for a drink in the morning. Never blacked out. Hangovers were usually a 6 on a scale from 1 to 10.
I quit thinking about why and just focused on I don't want to do this anymore. It always was a huge waste of time and I always hated how I knew better but just kept doing it anyway. I have decided it doesn't matter. Me and alcohol don't work well together. It can do what it wants to do. I'm moving on.
I don't have massive cravings. Every now and then I have a thought pop in my head like a natural reaction. Leave work. Hey, where should I stop for a bottle of wine? Oh wait I don't drink anymore. Silly me. Moving on. It passes quickly.
I don't know if someone else would say I'm not an alcoholic or I am. I just know I am a better person without it. A much more mentally and physically healthier person without it.
It hasn't always been easy but it hasn't been the worst thing I've ever done. Drinking and hating myself was far worse for me. I really did hate that every time I drank I drank more than I intended to. That was enough for me to say I have a problem.
I just pulled the option off the table and no matter what I ain't picking back up. Now I spend my time working on growing as a person. That would have been impossible if I were still drinking.
I did this before. Didn't drink for about 10 years. Was a great 10 years. I also remember when I did start again. No big sneaky craving jumping out of nowhere. Just me thinking f it. That and me forgetting how it sucked before.
This time around I'm keeping the options around that remind me why I'm doing this in the first place in case I have that memory lapse again.
Just me. I think we are all different. A lot of the same feelings and we can certainly relate but why we decide to move forward seems to be a little individual.
I quit thinking about why and just focused on I don't want to do this anymore. It always was a huge waste of time and I always hated how I knew better but just kept doing it anyway. I have decided it doesn't matter. Me and alcohol don't work well together. It can do what it wants to do. I'm moving on.
I don't have massive cravings. Every now and then I have a thought pop in my head like a natural reaction. Leave work. Hey, where should I stop for a bottle of wine? Oh wait I don't drink anymore. Silly me. Moving on. It passes quickly.
I don't know if someone else would say I'm not an alcoholic or I am. I just know I am a better person without it. A much more mentally and physically healthier person without it.
It hasn't always been easy but it hasn't been the worst thing I've ever done. Drinking and hating myself was far worse for me. I really did hate that every time I drank I drank more than I intended to. That was enough for me to say I have a problem.
I just pulled the option off the table and no matter what I ain't picking back up. Now I spend my time working on growing as a person. That would have been impossible if I were still drinking.
I did this before. Didn't drink for about 10 years. Was a great 10 years. I also remember when I did start again. No big sneaky craving jumping out of nowhere. Just me thinking f it. That and me forgetting how it sucked before.
This time around I'm keeping the options around that remind me why I'm doing this in the first place in case I have that memory lapse again.
Just me. I think we are all different. A lot of the same feelings and we can certainly relate but why we decide to move forward seems to be a little individual.
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There does seem to be a genetic component, but the idea that alcoholics are born with a condition that causes them to process alcohol differently than most people is simply not proven.
No one has to become an alcoholic/addict. While some might be more likely to become addicts, that is not a given.
However, if they do become an addict, then their DOC (in this case alcohol) will affect them differently that most people. And once one has become addicted to one substance or behavior, then it is easier to become addicted to something else, because that persons circuitry has changed.
No one has to become an alcoholic/addict. While some might be more likely to become addicts, that is not a given.
However, if they do become an addict, then their DOC (in this case alcohol) will affect them differently that most people. And once one has become addicted to one substance or behavior, then it is easier to become addicted to something else, because that persons circuitry has changed.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
but the idea that alcoholics are born with a condition that causes them to process alcohol differently than most people is simply not proven.
All I can say is from my own experiences in the past, I remember as a child, wanting more alcohol after a church communion.
My parents were not alcoholic, there was alcohol in the home, but culturaly speaking it was part of the "food chain" on special occasions, such as a Sunday roast, a celebration, or a wedding reception.
From most of my blood relatives I "stood out" the most when I drank and made a show of it. Everyone else was normal, I get lectured, with glass in hand.
How can this be as young as 12 or 13 and my church communion experiences I remember wanting more of that effect as young as 8.
No, it may never be proven, society may never allow someone's child to be a guinea pig to test if they have a abnormal reaction to alcohol. That be a insult to perfectly normal drinking working parents for a university study group to ask 1000 parents to test if their child is a potential alcoholic, as young as 8 years old?
The risk alone may expose that child to alcohol and who knows what that child will think next, like I did, my thought was where does the wine come from?
So the answer is possibly the identification of one's own inner experiences of how they feel inside their body when alcohol is willingly consumed.
here some guidelines perhaps
An individual becomes an alcoholic for three main reasons:
1. As a result of inheritance. He possesses a nervous system which is non-resistant to alcohol. (In no sense is a direct craving transmitted from parent to offspring.)
2. By reason of his early environment. Through the ignorance of his parents or from their own nervous constitution, the alcoholic was either spoiled or neglected. He was not brought up to face the world courageously. He is lacking in self-reliance, no matter how physically brave he may be or how bold he may appear on the surface. Psychologically, he is unable to stand on his own two feet. As a result of this, he unconsciously craves a stimulant-narcotic.
3. Because of the effects of his later environment. That is to say, school, college, economic and social competition, marriage, and, for one generation at least, the World War.
Richard R. Peabody, The Common Sense of Drinking, 1930, pp. 185-186
1. As a result of inheritance. He possesses a nervous system which is non-resistant to alcohol. (In no sense is a direct craving transmitted from parent to offspring.)
2. By reason of his early environment. Through the ignorance of his parents or from their own nervous constitution, the alcoholic was either spoiled or neglected. He was not brought up to face the world courageously. He is lacking in self-reliance, no matter how physically brave he may be or how bold he may appear on the surface. Psychologically, he is unable to stand on his own two feet. As a result of this, he unconsciously craves a stimulant-narcotic.
3. Because of the effects of his later environment. That is to say, school, college, economic and social competition, marriage, and, for one generation at least, the World War.
Richard R. Peabody, The Common Sense of Drinking, 1930, pp. 185-186
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