crisco

One of my major problem in AA is how to penetrate the various social cliques within AA and NA. For my five years that I have been in the program, I have gone to a lot of meetings, but I rarely have gotten into the social cliques within AA. I have autism so it makes it difficult for me to process all of the social cues that are within AA to join cliques. It is primarily the main reason why I have not shifted away all of my friendships from my friends that I use to drink with to having most of my social group outside of the group. Instead, I spend most of significant time socializing with people outside of the program than with people instead in the program. What techniques should use to try to penetrate the AA and NA social cliques so I shift away from a group of acquaintances that primaries drinks to a more sober group of friends

Dee74

Hi Crisco

I'm not in AA so I can't give you specific advice.
It's good general advice tho to suggest - just be yourself.

You have friends outside of AA so it's not like it's an impossible task for you to make friends.

Maybe you're overthinking this a little?

D

Carlotta

I refuse to join any clique which would have me as a member

MemphisBlues

Hey, Crisco. I understand how social anxiety, etc., and preclude reaping the fruits of the fellowship that comes with meetings after the meetings.

I was fortunate to get sober in a very small recovery community overseas where meetings consisted of a dozen or so members on average. I since moved back to the states where meetings are huge by comparison, like 60 or so members. I find it hard to break in, make friendships, etc. But I think the key in situations like that is to swallow our fear and share, which can actually be hard to do in large meetings as the chairman normally taps people to speak.

The important things is that we keep going back. And if you get a chance to share about your program, about the solution that keeps you sober, I would talk about you social anxiety, your fears, how just plain hard it is for you to share int he first place, how you recognize that you need to expand your relationships to those that are also in the program.

Easy words to write, much harder to say in an open or closed meeting, but I think you would be rewarded. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

wpainterw

I wonder whether it's advisable to put much emphasis on joining a "clique". You have autism and you feel left out. You feel a bit lonely even though you are in an AA group. That's very human of you to feel that way. And wasn't your addiction problem perhaps related to that 'lonely" feeling? Mine was. I felt shy, lonely, ill at ease. And drinking seemed to make it better. You mention that you have continued your ties with your old drinking buddies. May that not give you trouble in the long run? Is it not possible to find groups, AA or non AA, who don't drink much or not at all? People who will accept your not drinking and who will admire you for it, because you should be admired for that. Talk to your doctors, counselors or, if you are religious, your pastor. It doesn't have to be a "goody goody" group. It might be a sports loving group. Or hiking, or something like that. People who welcome you and admire you for what you are, not just because you can lift a glass and be "one of the gang"?

Db1105

Service work. Open up a meeting, make coffee, clean up. Show up early, stay late.become an Intergroup, GSR, etc. rep or volunteer at those offices. Sign up for the phone call list. There are an infinite list of things one can do. I have to put my hand out or speak up first. If you have a sponsor, talk to him. If you don't have one, get one.

CactusJill

Hi Crisco-

My son has autism too so I know a little bit of what you mean with the problems with social cues. I agree with the others who said that maybe you should open up about your issues and fears. I have found that most people are wonderfully supportive when they find out that my son has autism and then they make a better effort to get to know him.

Also, I know what you mean about the cliques. Like you, I have social anxiety and I never feel like I fit in at AA meetings and I would love to have more friends who are active in recovery. I am still working on it.

Vandermast

hey mate

personally i dont worry about the cliques, and i find it quite interesting that exclusivity exists within the ranks of aa/na. i really am a solitary man at heart and am most comfortable with that.....i have a number of friends in the rooms, but i am most certainly not interested remotely in being in a clique.

trust me, you aint missing out on much...

v

digdug

Personally, while I think cliques may appear to exist to an outsider looking in, in reality, they're just people who have bonded over sobriety. There is no need to join cliques because everyone is really on the same level, dealing with the same issues. I know it may be hard for you to pick up on stuff while dealing with autism, but if you can get the nerve up, just talk to people. No one will ignore you. No one will make you feel like you don't belong. That is not the purpose of AA. It is an inclusive fellowship, not an exclusive one. If there are 5-6 people standing around talking after the meeting, that does not mean you're not invited to join the conversation. They will be happy to meet you and help you. That is the primary purpose of AA.

miamifella

I also found this hard. In meetings you hear about how welcoming and inclusive AA is, but that is not how everyone experiences it. In most groups I noticed that there is an inner circle that is supportive and friendly to each other--then there are the people who are not part of that group. This inner circle can be hard to penetrate.

If you can attend a specific meeting every week, then volunteering is a good idea. You have to make it so that people MUST deal with you.

IOAA2

Hi. I'm not the easy to fit in personality so see even imaginary thing in my processing. First I'll say there are a lot of people around AA and only a small percent in it. By that I mean participating like making coffee, setting up the meeting, greeter, cleaning up, speaking, chairing, and on and on. By participating in a group you like the benefits are many fold including a closeness to other members who also participate. In other words it works IF we work it.

BE WELL

KateL

I never really experienced cliques. I didn't socialise with any AAers outside of AA. I don't think many of them did either to be honest. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

LadyBlue0527

Hi digdug, this may have been your personal experience but there are definitely cliques within AA meetings. In early sobriety I attended this one meeting where I would leave really scratching my head. I was doing my best to get to know people, and I don't have dislike for anyone, I am easy to get along with even without a drink in my hand. I looked inward that the problem must be with me. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what my problem was. There were some people at this meeting who were borderline rude. At the end of the meeting I would hang out and try to get to know people by introducing myself. There were multiple instances where I walked up to someone and extended my hand and said "Hi, my name is LB". They would put out their hand and say hi back and (I'm not kidding) not even look directly at me rather the crowd (clique) at the back of the room that was congregating. Their handshake to me would be the limp fish wishy washy shake that was blatantly extended just due to the fact that I had extended mine. The underlying message was "oh oh oh, you're getting in the way of me hurrying up back to where the cool kids are! I have to get back there!". This happened on multiple occasions.

Then, I looked in my book and found another meeting. I was apprehensive and went. I had been made to feel so much like an outsider that I assumed I would end up feeling the same at this one. I was still convinced that this was my problem and I made the decision that if the same happened at this meeting that I had to do a real powerful self search to see what on earth MY problem was. From day one in this meeting I felt accepted, loved, and welcomed. People were genuinely happy to see me as I was to see them. Every member coming through the door was spoken to, it was like becoming part of a family from the moment I got there. All are treated equally. I have attended other meetings where I experienced the same and still attend these meetings to this day.

So yes, there are cliques, which is really sad but it does happen.

crisco, do not give up! There's a meeting out there for you, you just have to find it. It will happen!

Johnston

They exist, but in my experience are welcoming if you go along with whatever bonds them with one another. Just like everywhere else.

digdug

Like I said, LadyBlue, I was only going off my personal experience. I guess I'm lucky that the "cliques" were welcoming and easy to engage in my area.

And you really bring up a good point about trying different meetings to find one that best fits. Every meeting is different, with different dynamics, different rules and different personalities. I've definitely been to ones where I felt a bit awkward or I just didn't like the vibe. It's a great idea to keep looking for a meeting where you really feel accepted.

And finding a home group and participating in the business meeting/group conscience is a great way to get to know the AAs who have been around for a while. And never turn down the opportunity to get your hand up and volunteer for service like setting up and making the coffee. It's a great way to meet people who are committed to the program.

Threshold

crisco,

I am sort of a misfit. Meaning mis-fit, as in doesn't fit into any particular/common category and takes awhile for me to figure out my role or place. I dont' slide into a group the way some people seem able to.

But there are a LOT or misfits, and a LOT of misfits in recovery. And...keep an eye out at meetings, you'll see some other folk who are not in a group, and often we can recognize that look on their face...that they aren't closed off to wanting to talk, but like us...they aren't sure where they fit in.

It's easier to strike up a conversation with another person when they are not in a group chatting away with five other persons.

I have found a "I related to what you shared" a good ice breaker. Or just walking over and saying "Hi, I'm.......I'm still getting to know people here and I don't think I've met you"

I've seem a lot of relief and gratitude bloom in the face of people I've reached out to, and suddenly I wasn't (and they weren't) on the outside any longer.

Sometimes when we think people are being standoffish, truth is they are like us, feeling on the outside, don't know what to say, sorta new, have social anxiety, having a bad day....etc etc. Not everyone in the rooms is doing better than we are. A person can be in recovery for years and still feel awkward introducing themselves to a stranger. But the rooms are a great place to practice some social skills, even as basic as saying "I'm new here" and shaking a hand.

TopherLevi

Only speaking from my own experience, I understand from where you’re coming.

Along my journey, in complete contrariety to the thirty-six principles (yes, thirty-six), I have unfortunately seen many cliques form in clubs, among groups, and at meetings.

When I was new to the program, this lead me to feel apart from rather than a part of, especially true when I was struggling and left the program for a few months. Sadly, it was during these months, thinking I had made some strong friendships and having heard from absolutely no one, I came to believe that the membership was full of fake people who know how to talk the talk, but certainly fall miles short of walking the walk. But I cane back. This wasn’t my first experience feeling as though I belonged on the island of misfit toys. A few words of advise... Look for the people who are actively practicing the principles in ALL of their affairs. Don’t waste your time looking for the winners, they can’t teach you a damn thing. They’re all DEAD! The only winners are those of us who die sober.

As I grew in my program and in my relationship with God, I could see so many people who are still suffering... at the tables in these very rooms: those who are unable to let go of old insecurities; others who become bullies, overcompensating for their past weaknesses; and then the ego driven who are unyielding in their pursuit to be the center of attention. Ironically, these cliques which I allowed to make me feel “less-than” are comprised of those individuals who are the most insecure, the biggest bullies, and the unrelenting attraction seekers.

Oh, the Big Book never tells us, not even one time, not to judge. But when judging, we don’t judge to gloat or look down on, rather we judge out of love and kindness with understanding and compassion, as we reach out to lend a helping hand.

The ‘insecure’ sincerely need our help the most; whereas, the bullies need their egos aggressively smashed. But it is the attention seekers who are the most dangerous. These individuals ought not hold any leadership positions, believing they are to rule. They these are from whom the ‘bleeding deacons’ are born... “a person who believes himself indispensable to a group, especially a person who becomes so over-involved in a group's activities, events, committees, policies, or politics as to lose sight of its larger goals; hence, a person who acts like the source of wisdom.” (bigbooksponsorship.org)

There are TWO distinct and separate parts in this organization: the PROGRAM and the FELLOWSHIP. This is from where today’s problems stem. People come into the program and participate in the fellowship and don’t work the program. This is precisely why the success rate has gone from 85% to less than 5%... too much focus is on the fellowship and too little work is being done on the program.

In the fellowship we can remain sober, but the fellowship cannot heal us spiritually or emotionally... it does NOT address our common malady. Many can abstain from the drink, while others relapse, sometimes chronically, like I used to, yet they attend meetings regularly, socialize with the right people (so they think), make coffee, become greeters, take topics, appear happy, and pretend their program is great and their life is wonderful, proclaiming the twelve promises in the 9th Step are coming true (there are one hundred fifty promises); albeit, in spite of everything, they are dying on the inside.

That was my experience. I was in these rooms for three and a half years working what I thought and was being taught was the program: a program to stop drinking and to be active in the fellowship (90 meetings in 90 days). It nearly killed me. Y’all nearly killed me! That, that is what the fellowship can do when you’re not being taken through the Steps by someone who has worked the program, truly has had a spiritual awakening, clearly understands the program, believes in our primary purpose, and can confidently declare we do “recover.”

We do NOT recover by participating in the fellowship... The fellowship can actually further screw us up, unless working the program comes first. Fellowship will not fix our spiritual malady. Meetings do not keep us sober.

We are cautioned that we must not become dependent upon our sponsor, our home group, our meetings, etc. It is only through our relationship with God that we are restored to sanity... that a new power flows into us, and “we will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.” “No human power could have relieved our alcoholism.”

Meetings, groups, and sponsors are tools. But if your sponsor or your home group or any meeting you attend aren’t working for you, find new ones!!!

And that leads me right into “Principles Before Personalities.” That is by far the most misinterpreted and misunderstood Tradition of all. Tradition Twelve calls for anonymity at the level of press, radio, and film. No personality is to be a spokesperson or represent the organization. It’s a fact that the failure rate of unofficial celebrity “spokesmen” is 97%!

“Personalities” does NOT mean we must accept the jerk(s) in the rooms. We all know the ones whom we’d all do better without; but, we respect the Third Tradition. Don’t even hesitate for a moment to let the jerk(s) push you out of THAT room, but never let the jerk(s) push you out of the program... Just make sure you find another room!

“Acceptance” is the answer. I just want to punch every person who says that right in their face! Acceptance is NOT the answer!! If everyone would simply read the first three words on page 112 in the Big Book, they would understand that!

No one, absolutely no one in the program should need to be told that the forty-three personal experiences at the back of the Big Book are of each individual’s story, in his own language and from his own point of view, the way he established his relationship with God. People who tell the new comer to read page 417 as though that is the secret of recovery need to be silenced, cut-off, and shutdown immediately.

That said, those who claims that they need to remind themselves daily that they’re an alcoholic and make a decision every morning that they will not drink for that day, that this is a one day at a time program, is not a true alcoholic. The real alcoholic has “lost the power of choice in drink.” “We have lost the power to choose whether we will drink or not.”

While I’m on it... “Never forget your last drunk.” OMG! Read the book people! It tells us, and I concur, “We are unable to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.”

Lastly, while I’m on my soapbox...

The absolute stupidity of the people whom I’ve heard say “don’t drink, go to meetings, and get a sponsor are the only three things you need to do to stay sober,” shows a blatantly ignorant understanding of the program. This advise is both horrific and deadly! These idiots should either be chased out of the rooms or, at the very least, be told to sit down and shut up.

Doctor Bob wrote a prescription on his personal prescription pad in 1937 where he told us the three things needed to live a life of sobriety:

Prescription for sobriety

1. Trust God
2. Clean house
3. Help others

Dee74

Welcome TopherLevi - no need to punch anyone in the face here

D

Berrybean

As painful as it might be, eye contact is essential when allowing people in. I don't know you personally, but do know that this is something a lot of my autistic pupils struggle with. It's realky hard for anyone to approach someone with a smile and hello if that person is avoiding eye contact.

Bigger group conversations can be a nightmare anyway. Instead of thinking how to break into a group, why not think about how to initiate a simple conversation with a few of the other people who aren't part of a big group. There will be some. And they may be feeling just like you are.

One group that always seems a clique on the surface is the smokers, because they all like out together and all like back in together. That's not because they're a group though, just because they're smoking before the meeting and after the break.

Also, it's worth adjusting your expectations and just giving it some time. The reason a lot of these folk are so relaxed around each other is that they've known each other a long time. I don't have autism, but you know, I do feel more shy around someone I've just met than someone I've known for 4 years. It's no reflection on that person if I don't open up to them immediately. It just takes a few weeks or months for me to feel at ease. So, please don't take things personally.

If you are aware of specific ways that you might unintentionally send out the message that you don't wanna talk, and can't help doing that, perhaps after a few meetings you could share, and mention those things, and say that you really don't mean to be unfriendly and would appreciate some help in starting conversations. AA is a place for honestly after all. Noone will think less of you or judge you.

Another great way to get to know people if help set up and clear up. I found it much easier to talk to others while setting out chairs or washing up while I first got to know people.

BB

january161992

as a simple dummy drunk even i can understand this

i will say that helping others which is called service in aa is the #1 contributor to my intact sobriety data