UnixBer

So the thought has been on my mind if there is something more to do psychologically to eliminate addiction, maybe techniques of bombing self with positive suggestions and the like... to help remove the disease, the addiction.

The beast can be "contacted", as I call it. Just ask yourself: "Do I want to drink now?" -- a strange feeling of excitement arrives coupled with a crazy smile and all (I'm not kidding, lol). So this is the beast, the animal part that is addicted. Perhaps... by the use of psychology, using simple messages, this part can somehow be psychologically re-educated to see alcohol differently. Mostly as an uninteresting object.

Any ideas for this? This might really be worthwhile anyway...

ScottFromWI

In simplistic terms, any recovery plan is kind of doing exactly what you are suggesting - treating the underlying issues that cause us to drink after initial withdrawals, as well as teaching us how to live our lives without the substances we are addicted to.

Skye2

Maybe it's because I'm tired, but I'm finding your message a little worrying, especially the 'excitement and crazy smile' comment.
Personally, I wonder why you would want to devote so much time to analysing - are you on the verge of lapsing? It seems you are romanticising things and not thinking of the shakes, sweats, night terrors, paranoia, panic etc

Like I said, it's been a long day and I am tired - I just know that for me, the less I dwell on 'the beast' the calmer I feel.

Xx

Carlotta

Are you talking about using the Silva method and of playing subliminal messages while in an Alpha state?

jkb

Check out AVRT/RR

FourSeasons

My #1 defense against the "beast" is to envision what happens to my life when I decide to have "just one". It is always the same and NEVER good.

As Einstein once said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Sober living is simply better...

doggonecarl

I have found the techniques for cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) to be helpful. Not so much for the addiction itself, but dealing with the anxiety, depression, and negative thinking that seems to lead one back to drinking.

Dee74

JMO but trying to reprogramme the 'evil' part of me didn't work for me - another of my control fantasies.

When I engaged with that part of me, there was always the chance that that other side may win the argument....and it often did

I dunno, just me, but I had better results, and ultimate success, not engaging at all, UB

I call the shots now - no negotiation

D

UnixBer

Actually... what I'm thinking here is not exactly dealing with the underlying emotional issues, but more of trying to understand the core of raw addiction and maybe it would be something more "specific".

And no I do not mean to engage with it, simply "feel" it and if there was in fact a way to make some effects psychologically. So what we're dealing with here would be the development of a one specific technique to help with alcoholism.

CBT sounds very interesting. The "beast" must be at least a little different for each individual as everyone is different... but still...

All I'm saying is you never know unless you try... there might in fact be such a way to help with addiction and I can understand how some people might not be interested in such... By no means am I trying to risk or jeopardize my sobriety... but to learn and try out something new.

There haven't been any noticable cravings, but there certainly has been a "hidden" acting on the AV and I recognize it anywhere... this is why thinking about this now. It is about AV and if it can indeed help with sobriety, I don't see any reason why not to do this. Thanks for the replies btw..

soberhawk

Do you know dog training methods as tricker training and positive reinforcement. I think an element of addiction is habits we have trained our brains to perform by reinforcing the behavior with a reward. I think this can be untrained again – but it is not the full explanation of addiction.

I have especially when I stopped smoking used a method where I replace the object for the craving. If I get difficult cravings I think about something I can have later and try to connect this to the craving. That is if I get cravings for a cigarette – I think of an apple pie I am getting this evening and try to make that connections or I think about after training/running when endorphin are released – the pleasant relaxed feeling afterwards.

I try to use the cravings as motivation for something else or just focus on a reward I can have. I do not think the part of the brain that has cravings is very smart it can be tricked – mine can at least.

Does this make sense?

soberhawk

Can you elaborate on which techniques you use there?

UnixBer

Soberhawk: exactly something like that. Those things I think work, but maybe more study is needed on that. In shorter terms - what we're looking for is either a way to re-condition (unlearn -> learn new to replace the old negative 'habit') or somehow shock the beast so it will shut up... and maybe be happy about something else than alcohol?

FourSeasons

Honestly, Unixber - That is exactly what happened to me. It was early afternoon on a warm summer day - August 26, 2013. This was the very first time I stood up to that beast and I screamed, "NO!!! NOT AGAIN!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!"

Thankfully, the beast has stayed at bay since.

However, I know I remain just ONE DRINK AWAY to reliving a dark and depressing existence.

doggonecarl

I won't elaborate much. A lot of CBT needs to be done with a therapist. For me to tell you what to do would constitute medical advice. But I'll give you a simple example:

Negative thinking. We all do it. For the addict or alcoholic though, negative thinking can affect our recovery. Thoughts like, "I always relapse" or "I can't get past day ___"

So my "technique" for negative thinking might consist of being aware of thoughts, what I am saying to myself.

When I identify a negative or unhelpful thought I then challege the thought:
Is this thought helpful?
Am I being realistic?

I might look at alternate explaination for the idea or thinking that would lead me to look at my thoughts in another light:
Is there another way of looking at this?
How would someone else think if they were in this situation?

I doubt I answered your question. There is a lot of information available. I wish more recovering addicts and alcoholic would learn how to leverage CBT for their sobriety.

UnixBer

Wow great. So it can REALLY work that way too. I also know that it is and will be that ONE DRINK AWAY from doom. But the beast has to stay down.

Actually I think I might be the biggest fool ever to entangle with the 'beast'... Before realizing anything about AVRT or addiction I tried and tried to reason with it, to fight with it... didn't understand it or even realize it was addiction based. However, knowing about the beast, what it is, is already half the journey. Understanding addiction therefore.

One thing that I'm doing myself is trying to remove the irrational desire for alcohol. That desire, that is also the beast.

DoubleBarrel

Talking to the beast? Teasing it? RR talks about doing exactly that. It is instructive to understand addiction ambivalence.

But retraining it? No, Ive never heard of that.

UnixBer

I'll also clarify a bit more what I'm thinking, since my explanation may not be sufficient.
Let's start with this idea: What if... an emotion... is a system of a kind. An emotion can be triggered by a thought or action/thing that revokes a memory in the ultimately complex system of human mind. (neatly said btw ). An example: Mr. Browns feels sad about the rain. The thought of raining or the occurence of the weather 'rain' makes him depressed. But why is this so? If an emotion is a decision, then Mr. Browns had to at some point "feel other emotion" to launch into the attitude and new emotion of the rain that is LINKED to the previous experience or thoughts...

So what I'm saying here is that if an emotion, such as "desire to drink / compulsive want to drink" is a system of a kind, and if there are those invisible links that lead the system into completion, and this system can be "disarmed"? If those links were to be disengaged or eliminated (where the desire wells from, the many possibly complex reasons...) then the emotion could be changed. Thus the result would be: no more AV or addiction in the mind. The rest would be only pecks of physiological remnants healing...

So what do you people think about that? Does it make this any more clear?

freshstart57

The desire comes from our pleasure center which is an aspect of our most basic instinct for survival. We drink, or least we did at one point, for the deep pleasure it brings. I don't believe it is reasonable to try to lose that survival drive, in whole or in part.

AVRT teaches how to recognize the beast in its various forms, to separate our conscious will from its subconscious workings, and to accept it without needing to act on it. It is powerless to force our actions because it is nothing more than a thought.

Your story about Mr. Brown who reacts with sadness to the rain would seem to suggest an opportunity for CBT, where we learn to understand how we process things like the rain, and what assumptions we have that then lead us to respond in a certain way.

Recognition of the beast is a useful tool, as is the rest of AVRT and Rational Recovery. I recommend them.

Zencat

Disassociating or detaching from those links (drinking urges) has worked for me as for disarming the addiction system.

Interesting short article from SaveOurSelves. The Physiological Basis of Addiction & Understanding how to Defeat Urges and Cravings.

With the limbic system as an emotional center along with a pleasure system, these are strongly affected by addiction. Memories or emotions associated with drug experiences can light up the brain and most likely will cause drug seeking behavior or thoughts.

All that brain 'hijacking' by addiction builds up some very strong neuro-pathways over the course of addiction. IMO Some brain reprogramming is required and there are host of ways of doing it.

mecanix

I found adapting some of the ideas & techniques in "obsessive love when it hurts too much to let go" by Susan Forward useful amongst other books and ideas .

Certainly convincing ones self that alcohol in no way adds to ones quality of life and does infact detract from it has helped me stay steadfast and resolute .

Bestwishes, m