skeenut

Hello All,
I first posted on the forums back in early July this year. I'm a recovering Alcoholic, just celebrated two years. My daughter is a recovering H addict with a wonderful nearly one year old daughter herself and seven years sober. She lives in FL. My son is normal with a two year old son and four year old daughter. He lives close to me in Jersey.
My wife is a high bottom alcoholic who just this year retired from a long, successful career. She was my drinking partner for over 35 years. But I was the "bad" one, the identified problem, and came into the rooms first. My daughter, son and myself staged an intervention for her that resulted in her detoxing and spending a month in re-hab.
She went and returned in denial. On day one at home she went to a meeting and returned home with a bottle of scotch. I told her no booze in the house. She said FU and hid it. She now drinks secretly at home, nearly daily. Does her best, really, to control her drinking and contain her personality shifts when she does drink. Occasionally gets up at night to drink. All this against my wishes.
I haven't called her out on it every time. Maybe every couple of weeks or so I express my distaste and more importantly my concern for my own sobriety.
She tried to enlist my normal son for support about a week or so ago. She told him that she is not an alcoholic and that she is going to continue to imbibe, just not in front of me or her daughter or the grandkids. My son didn't buy it and called her out on it.
Well tonight it all hit the fan. We agreed to babysit my grandson at our house overnight. My son and his wife dropped him off this afternoon and continued on to a dinner date with friends. Wife and I had nice few hours with our grandson and then I went to a meeting. Son called at the end of the meeting and said they were stopping by the house to drop off the car seat on their way home. We all got to back to my house at the same time. My grandson was safely asleep in his crib. But my wife had been drinking. She was noticeably under the influence and it was instantly notable. Son and daughter in law were aghast. Retrieved their son and left.
Now I've got a wife who is blaming me for poisoning the family against her, (everyone is overreacting,) telling me she F'ing hates me and that we should get a divorce, and a son and daughter in law who are incensed at her but also at ME for putting their son at risk by going to a meeting.
I'll be able to make amends to my son. But I don't know what to do about my wife. Things are really not good. And I can't believe that I'm in the hot seat AT ALL.

Dee74

I'm sorry Skeeenut.
That all sounds very tough to deal with.

Have you thought of something like AlAnon for yourself - sounds like you could use the outlet and the support?

D

Tamerua

You threaten her booze, that's why you're in the dog house. I agree with Dee, have you thought about Alanon?

Congrats on your sobriety, btw. That can't be easy with someone still drinking in close proximity.

NoelleR

You can't believe that you're in the hot set AT ALL.........? Jeesh, go back 'n read what you wrote; you left your grandson in the care of someone who you know, or should have known, was not a responsible caregiver...all so you could go to a meeting (work on your recovery?)? Meetings are not all there are in recovery; sometimes recovery involves just taking responsibility for taking care of relatives (grandchildren).

Think on it a bit (before you talk with your son and daughter-in-law); hopefully it'll come to you.

)o:
NoelleR

Carlotta

Hi Skeenut,
I would definitely advise you to check out Al Anon. I am also a double winner and there are folks like us in Al Anon who are in recovery both from alcoholism and codependency.
Remember our first 3 steps:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol that our lives had become unmanageable.
The same way you and I are powerless over alcohol for ourselves, we are also powerless over someone else s alcoholism

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
There is a God and it is not us. Your wife has her own higher power and when she is ready to turn it over that HP will help her. In the meantime, we are deeply affected by our loved one's alcoholism. It is a family disease and we start acting crazily: trying to control them, smelling their breath, looking for empties basically making the active alcoholic the center of our world. This is insane.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God
as we understood him.
This is where we turn over our loved one to the loving care of HP. We learn to let go of trying to control them. We learn slowly but surely to detach with love.

When it comes to her alcoholism: You did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it.

I hope you will join us in the Family and Friends forum, there are quite a few double winners there, people who have found sobriety but whose life is impacted by a loved one's disease.
Friends and Family of Alcoholics - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
and here is the link to a double winner thread that I started a while back:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...loved-one.html

And I see that you had posted there, I am going to bump that thread up.

Carlotta

and obviously this has not been working.
Ultimatums and "calling out"/ confronting the alcoholic do not work. All it does is get them sneaking and quacking, she will quit when she reaches her own moment of clarity if she ever does.
The intervention which is the ultimate confrontational tool did not work, you write that she went in denial and came back in denial. She basically went to pacify you guys.
What you might consider doing is setting personal boundaries. Ultimatums are about the other person as in: if you get drunk again, I am leaving. It is basically an attempt at control and it will accomplish nothing except driving you nuts.
A boundary is about you, what you are comfortable with, what you will not tolerate. It is something very personal that you do not even need to share with your spouse.
I would suggest that you sit down and write a list just for yourself of things you will NOT tolerate and what action you will take.
An example might be, I will not have a drunk left alone in my house with a child. If this happen I will take the child back to its parent and leave for the night.

Anyway, definitely check out Al Anon.

Good luck

Trying to give you a double winner example of ultimatum vs boundaries from my own experience. My best friend is an alcoholic. I could give him ultimatums (and very likely not follow through) saying: If you get drunk again our friendship is over.
Instead I have a clear set boundary that I do not hang out with people who get sloppy drunk. I block his calls and texts when he is on a binge and if I am visiting and he goes to get a beer, I just leave.
I cannot change what he is or his actions but I can control my reactions and also not let it affect me. This is detachment.

Carlotta

Oops I had not see that one! Noelle is completely right and next time, take the kid with you to the meeting, if your home group is anything like mine, no one will have a problem with it.

skeenut

Thanks to all the responders.
I should rephrase the last sentence of my post to be something like,"I can't believe I put myself in the position of having everyone upset with me AT ALL."

I completely agree with my son's response to the situation and just feel terrible about the role I played in it. That's what I can't believe. I'll be speaking with my son about this later today.

Had the big talk with my wife this AM. She maintains that no one was in danger and that we are all overreacting to her just having one drink. Neatly sidestepping the fact that she agreed not to have any drinks while in the presence of her grandkids and broke the trust issue with all of us. We are all crazy.

I see her as incapable of making a choice about alcohol at this time. She is convinced she chooses to drink as an appropriate way to deal with her feelings of hurt and inadequacy and emotional distance and isolation from me. I think she can't NOT drink.

I've been going to two Al Anon meetings a week in addition to my five AA meetings. I've learned a lot there. But I'm so fearful of losing the marriage to an ultimatum.

She's not a high drama drinker, not terribly sloppy or stumbling, just...inebriated. And I don't like it. So I'm at that place where I need to define my boundaries and what the consequences of crossing those boundaries should be. It was an eye opener for me when Carlotta said that those boundaries need not necessarily be shared. I suppose I need to clarify what behavior is acceptable to me, what is unacceptable and what my response will be. This is not an easy, natural task for me.

Soberween

When I was a drinker, it would **** me off if my husband said I couldn't drink in the house. I paid all the bills along with him. I would resent that. I had to decide for myself that I was an alcoholic and that is when I began to heal. If anything, that would have made me feel like I had to be sneaky. Of course, she drank when you went to your meeting because she knew she could drink in peace for a good hour without having to hide it.

advbike

I left a long term relationship because I had to get sober and could not do so with someone drinking in front of me every night, even though it was only 2 glasses of wine. I couldn't stand the subtle personality shift and quick temper that occurred either. I still care about her but she refuses to quit and I was not willing to deal with it so I moved out. We're still friends but she understands now that my sobriety is my highest priority and she doesn't drink if we get together. You can't control what she does, just your own life, and happiness. Personally I hate all that alcoholic drama.

onthebrink

First. Congratulations to you for your own sobriety!

As to your wife, you need to understand that you cannot MAKE her do anything. Believe me, my husband has tried. He's gotten angry, threatened to leave, called me an alcoholic, searched my belongings for hidden stash. All that did was make me drink more, hide more, drink alone more, get angry at him more....drink more.. Yea, I said it twice for a reason. You cannot make her stop drinking. You can't. She has to do it herself. All you can do is protect your grandchild, yourself, and as the others have said; set your own boundaries. Confronting her, smelling her breath, making her feel under attack will likely cause her to drink MORE. Spoken from experience. My husband did not give up on me and I realized I lost his trust but I still couldn't stop until I was ready to stop. And I'm still fighting it today.

The only difference in my relationship is that my husband is not an alcoholic. Considering your drinking history you already know how she is feeling. Try to remember that but also remember to take care of yourself. You cannot control her. You can only control your own reactions.

foolsgold66

Long story short, I think everybody involved needs to walk over to the door and take a good long look at it. Life's too short for standoffs like this one.

Anna

Congratulations on your recovery.

You learned a tough lesson from this episode. It's not okay for you to leave your grandchildren in the presence of your wife, ever. There's nothing to consider there. She cannot be trusted and you know this, even though it's very sad to accept.

As for your boundaries about what will work for you, it might take some time to firm your ideas, but you seem to be at a crossroads. Hopefully you can find some peace.

skeenut

My son attended my regularly scheduled therapy session this AM. While there I brought up whether my wife should watch our grandchildren with me at their house as was our normal thing every Tuesday afternoon. NO. My son is too upset with her to be at his house in that capacity, even with me there too.
So he called her and told her that she was not welcome, that I should come alone.
She is angry. She feels that no one, NO ONE, has any compassion or understanding or empathy for her. That we don't recognize the work she's doing and the changes she's made in her relationship with alcohol.
The problem is that not much has changed. She doesn't drink at home in front of me, and she doesn't pass out in front of us at the dinner table and go to bed early. Instead she now controls and hides it. But it squeaks out every so often, like it did Saturday night.
Bottom line is that she needs to drink to quiet down the emotional storm she endures all the time. And I know what that is like. And I told her that. And she told me that that was just all words, blah blah blah. And she left the house saying she didn't want to be around me.
So here I am. Wondering just what to do. It feels really toxic in the house.
Detaching with love is hard to do when it's your wife. I don't know what that looks like except for leaving. The alternative is a tense cohabiting freeze-out.
This all really sucks.

brightspark

Oh Skeenut, I'm sorry about what has happened. Something very very similar happened with my father when his drinking was at its worst. I think you should look into Alanon definitely. I wish I had! But ultimately you can't blame yourself at all. This is something she has to beat herself and you have to try and make a plan for what your approach will be towards it.

skeenut

Well she's pre-emptively leaving. She said she's going to a friend's house and won't be home when I get there. She has a therapist appt Thursday and said she's going away after that, that she doesn't feel her family is supporting her and doesn't want to be around us. She feels that I'm responsible for her current situation and that she won't visit a therapist with me unless I, "want to be culpable for my role in that." I said I'm open to all.
This feels so crazy. But it makes crazy Alcoholic sense, doesn't it? It does feel like a crossroads…into WAY unchartered territory. Scary. We've been married for 35 years.

Dee74

I know I blamed everyone and everything for my troubles but the truth was there was no conspiracy, just my bad decisions.

Noone forced your wife to drink when she should have been minding the grandkid. That was her decision and she's reaping the consequences and the fallout of that decision now.

I'm sorry the fall out from her decision is hard on you, too.

It's rough, especially when you love your wife and you want the marriage to last - but you need two people pulling together for that happen and right now it doesn't look like that's happening?

I hope you get some comfort and wisdom from AlAnon, as well as here and our Family and Friends forum.

D

DoubleDragons

Skeenut, it breaks my heart reading your story. It sounds so much like my parents. My mother has become a full blown alcoholic and my father seems to have given up and now seems to be following in her footsteps. I have lost so much respect for both of them. It really became evident to me how bad it had become when my mother showed up wasted to a Mother's Day brunch at a lovely restaurant. She fell into a potted plant and made a complete a88 of herself in front of everyone, including my four precious children. My father seemed to think he was the only one who noticed and even ordered more wine for her. UGH. I spent my Mother's Day explaining to my children what alcoholism is and how it affects people. My relationship with my parents has become so fake and limited. I only talk to my mother in the mornings because I think that is probably the only time (usually) that she isn't under the influence. My husband and I refuse to drink with them (I have quit drinking completely in fear of turning into her), so they make excuses to hardly spend any time with us. It literally breaks my heart. My mother was such an elegant, beautiful, private, regal woman, but now she seems like a shell of herself. She, too, blames my father and my sibling and myself for everything that is wrong in her life, and thus, the cause of her drinking. (I know this isn't true, but it still hurts a lot). She is the only person in my life who has told me that she Hates me, again in a drunken rage. The difference in your family is that you are sober and sane and understand how your children feel. I have had discussions with my father and he agrees to get my mother help, but the next thing you know, he is ordering her martinis and taking her to bars every night. I am sorry this really isn't helpful, just please know that you are not alone. Your kids/grandkids are lucky that at least one of you is sober and trying to make changes. My heart goes out to you . . . .

foolsgold66

I'm sorry for you but you must protect yourself and your grandchild. You know you can't fix her. Perhaps your wife will come to terms with her problem when it follows her to wherever she is going. It does happen, sometimes the stubbornest do make the biggest turnaround when they finally get there.

skeenut

Well she didn't go. I attribute it to cold feet. All nicey nice now.
Actually invited me to meet her therapist yesterday. Has been working with her for about six weeks now. The session started with my wife telling the story, apparently for the first time, about the intervention and de-tox/rehab from four months ago. All from her perspective of denial and resentment. Therapist was nonplussed and used it as opportunity to work on our communication skills, as in, "So Jeff, how is it to hear that your wife is angry with you over all this and the last thirty years of your life together?" I worked with it cooperatively until there was little time left in the session when I interrupted and said we needed to focus on alcohol. That I was a recovering alcoholic and I had an active drinker, (I'm not supposed to describe her as an alcoholic,) in the house. Therapist agreed and spent the next twenty minutes reviewing how I felt about my wife when she was drinking. OK, we're getting closer. But we didn't even get to the present. My wife did at least admit that she was drinking as an act of defiance. That she was drinking at us.
The only good news I could take from the session was: 1. Alcohol got put on the table in my wife's therapy. 2. I got invited back to another session.
So we're still in the same house. She bought more booze and it's in a new, unfound hiding place. I go to meetings, last night Al-Anon, and she has an opportunity to drink.
I did get an Al-Anon sponsor a few days ago. He's a guy I know from AA, another double winner. I'm working with him to help me define my boundaries and exactly what consequences I'm willing to implement if those boundaries are crossed. It feels like a tricky surgical procedure. I'm just having a tough time letting go...