Mirage74

Most, err i should say many, people in AA who have a lot of sobriety just use it as a part of their lives. They have jobs, families, hobbies, and even friends outside the program. They are as active as they want to be.

But as for the Groucho Marx thing, I hear what you're saying.

wpainterw

Again, I'm so glad that there seems to have been such a helpful and friendly discussion. It appears that there is a variety of approaches to this problem of alcoholism and that may be appropriate considering the complexity of the illness and the differences in the various people who suffer from it. And, to me, at least, it emphasizes the importance of being open to new ideas, new ways of helping people to find the means and method of recovery which is most helpful to them. One respondent benefitted from an agnostic and atheist AA meeting and I too was helped by that, although I do not consider myself an agnostic or atheist. I can get along without going to as many AA meetings as i went to in the early years but I do find great benefit in this SR website. It's great to be reminded of where you were and to help others who may be going through what happened to you.
As to what "caused" my alcoholism, I'm pretty sure that it was caused by drinking too much alcohol. It sure helped when I stopped doing that. As the years go on I feel safer and more secure about the possibility of relapse and find I can handle the various crises, etc. without feeling a craving to drink. But I know I'll always have to be watching my back on this. Using SR and being able to go to a meeting when I feel it necessary is the way I do this. With a situation like this complacency is the big enemy.

W.

DylanS

Wpaint - have you heard of the book, "Under the Influence"? There're excerpts here on SR from the book - you can do a search. It helped me immensely in coming to an understanding for myself about my drinking problem. I absolutely believe in a physical component of alcoholism and believe it is genetic and probably there from birth. Why else, from the first drink I ever took, would I know, "This is for me...if I can just get past the taste...this has what I need."?

I'm not entirely clear by what you mean by 'tough love' but for me it conjures up the sort of in-your-face communication which does not and will never work for me. Kindness, patient reasoning - these things help calm my beleaguered brain and help it to zero in and pay attention. When threatened, my brain just shuts down and I'm not open to much of anything - except getting away from the source of the confrontational behavior.

IF one follows the 12 steps, it's pretty clear: Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may meet their needs....Faith has to work twenty-four hours a day in and through us, or we perish.

I was sober 12 years in AA and then drifted off. I lasted 2 more years before I drank, and was 'out' for 11 or 12 years. I'm now 8 days clean and sober (added opiate addiction during my 'time out'). I guess it's different for everyone, and while I certainly don't really enjoy the idea of doing this the rest of my life, I'm really afraid my only other option is continuing the slide into oblivion and death (either by accident or design).

wpainterw

Dylan S: You wrote in part "I'm not entirely clear by what you mean by 'tough love' but for me it conjures up the sort of in-your-face communication which does not and will never work for me. Kindness, patient reasoning - these things help calm my beleaguered brain and help it to zero in and pay attention. "
I completely agree. Perhaps the phrase is misleading. A confrontational approach to persons beginning recovery, akin to a Marine sergeant in boot camp, would be in my view entirely inappropriate. What I had in mind is a structured, directive approach which is nonetheless caring and benevolent. Maybe it's fruitless to talk about it at all. Just be aware that in the initial stages of recovery one has to deal with an angry and compulsive component of the brain which has been deprived of the very thing on which its existence seems to depend. Simply put, it wants the alcohol back. How do you deal with that? How does a person in early recovery deal with it? Not by shouting at it, threatening it, bullying it. But giving it some direction about how to get out of the predicament. And doing that with love and concern.
The phrase "tough love" is more often used in connection with parental concerns about an addicted son or daughter who has become angry, alienated and isolated and who remains at the parental home year after year or leaves periodically only to return, never developing self reliance and forever being manipulative and dependent. What to do? When to blow the whistle and say, "No more of this- unless you meet me half way!"
All I am suggesting is that the same problem exists with regard to dealing with the so called "addictive voice" which comes from the midbrain in the early stages of recovery. The time comes to draw a line in the sand and say, "I know what you want and you're not going to get any more of it. It's going to be tough at first but I'm no longer going to run errands to the liquor store for you! I'm through listening to your demands."

W.