Kimmieh

jstar, I think your post triggered some of us because we can so relate to your husband's disappointment, frustration, worry, etc. I don't come here often because I get triggered by comments alcoholics make about their spouses ("she doesn't understand" and sometimes accusations) and want to scream "I just want out of this nightmare, whether or not I understand it."

But sometimes I do read here because I get great insights and it helps me understand where I come in as the spouse. But at times it hurts.

Please don't take it personally - we all try to cope with the situation, on either side of the fence.

honeypig

I'd like to second doggonecarl and kimmieh--I don't know that any "hate" was directed at you. However, it's very likely you felt some of the pain and anger that some of the folks there are struggling with every single day. Did you read any other threads there? Perhaps the one about the motorcycle accident? These are people whose lives have been severely damaged by living with an alcoholic. I'm certain it sucks struggling with an addiction, but the non-addicts suffer just as much, only in a different way.

Just as the family member/friend can't do anything to change the alcoholic or stop him/her from drinking, you can't change your husband or "make him understand." In fact, as one poster on the other thread told you, that is not his job. You mind your side of the street; he minds his side.

I guess I'm struck most by the contrast between your posts, jstar, and a thread I read a week or two (?) ago. I think it was in the Alcoholism section, where someone had started a thread saying they had checked out the Family and Friends section of the forum and found the stories there so incredibly painful they couldn't read any more. Many others posted, saying the same thing. They were absolutely horrified at the wreckage that an alcoholic relationship can inflict on EVERYONE involved, and it seemed that this thought honestly had not occurred to these folks, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say they didn't realize the extent of the damage and the depth of the pain. It would seem you haven't arrived at the point these folks are at; you are more concerned that others understand YOUR struggles. Maybe something to think about, moving forward.

I sort of understand where you're coming from, as my RAH seems completely clueless at times about the damage alcoholism has wrought in our lives. However, if you can, take some time and read what some of those "haters" have gone thru before you judge them as such, OK?

m1k3

Hi JStar, as a poster from the friends and family section I would like to point out that a lot of the advice you got there you also got here with pretty much the exact same amount of sugar coating.

That is there is no way you can get him to understand. Just like you will never understand what he has been through. Your recovery is yours and his recovery is his.

I really wish you the best with your recovery.

Your friend,

upandup

The response you received might be representative of some of the things your husband is going through - ranging from being glad you're at least wanting to seek help to a resurfacing of hurts past. I took your intention as a desire to open communication with him. Understanding goes both ways. As painful as it might be, you now have an idea what his thoughts may be. Hearing that is powerful, there was a lot to be learned. Knowing what you do now, you can decide what to do and how to move forward.

hypochondriac

I don't think anyone can deny though that the f&f section is often more strongly worded than the alcoholic ones. It seems almost acceptable to criticise because the alcoholic is the one doing something wrong in a way would never be tolerated here if an alcoholic criticised their partner for whatever reason which may be totally valid. We would always tell people to look at the other side. I think it is often overlooked that alcoholism comes from a place of pain. It doesn't excuse it but I often feel sorry for people in f&f that it has caused so much hatred. I have experienced living with an alcoholic too so I know how damaging it can be but I always thought how f*cked up they were not 'look what they did to me'. Maybe this makes you grateful for your husband no jstar? He may not understand but he is not playing the victim x

Soberpotamus

Jstar... my husband was finally able to understand the irrationality and even insanity of the addict's craving by going with me to see a presentation called The Broken Brain, which is based on Kevin McCauley's presentation Pleasure Unwoven... it was a more succinct presentation of his longer one. And it even convinced me of the strong evidence for the "disorder" or "disease" concept... and just WHY it can be categorized as such by the AMA. It explained how there is a reinforcement in the brain for things like food, sex, and drugs... and how drugs are incredibly more reinforcing, over and above food and sex... it was enlightening

I suggest you get him to watch Pleasure Unwoven.

And here is something you can show him: AlcoholismFacts

honeypig

I truly don't think F&F is full of people "playing the victim" any more than the alcoholic section is full of people "playing the victim."

I don't believe that either AA or Alanon condones "playing the victim." Both stress that both partners are sick and need to work towards recovery.

I will not pretend to know for sure the spirit in which you made that comment, but it did not come across to me in a very good light.

BlueSkies1

There are many times that the hurt and pain shows through on the f&f board. You have to realize that these people are at different places in their recovery. Some are living in their depths of pain right now. Some have moved beyond. Some have learned new skills, others haven't. What is important to realize is that sometimes we (over there) can't see beyond where we are currently in our recovery anymore than a drinker can see beyond where they currently sit in their recovery. Meaning...we all -all people--don't know what we don't know.. and how could we? Hope that makes sense!
I'm sorry that you felt attacked because I was hoping you would answer some of my questions.

hypochondriac

The spirit was to support Jstar. I didn't want this thread to turn into another critique. I understand the need to look at things from both sides and not blame other people (see previous post) but I have noticed that sometimes the f&f threads don't always do that. It is an observation and an opinion and in some ways irrelevant here but I just wanted to be the voice on the other side

m1k3

JStar, the answer is pretty much this no matter which forum you are in. Focus on your own recovery, do the best you can because to be honest, that's all you can do.

Your friend,

Carlotta

Hi Jstar,

I am a double winner. As an alcoholic I understand what you are going through and as a codependent, I have also walked in your husband's shoes and understand.
It comes a time in a relationship when we get so tired with the active alcoholic partner that we really do not want to talk anymore and we could not care less about their feelings and understanding what they are going through. We want to see positive actions and results (ie the partner becoming and staying sober and being respectful of us).
Also, as a normal drinker, even if he is not burnt out yet, he just cannot understand. Only another alcoholic can, this is why a lot of us need forums like this and F2F to recover.
I would not recommend having him read the "to wives" chapter. Maybe it is because it was written by an alcoholic (Bill Wilson did it, not Lois) a long time ago but as it is in my book a piece of sexist garbage meant to keep the codie in her misery (it was a she at the time!! ) and centered around the alcoholic's recovery and well being. To wives also make light of abuse and is dismissive of the punching of furniture, slapping the kids and yelling at the spouse. It's like "oh well, no big deal, that's what a sick active alcoholic does".
Nothing is said about setting boundaries, taking care of oneself and it only mention leaving the alcoholic in case of grave physical abuse (WTF?). To wives is an insult to any intelligent woman. I love the big book but not this chapter.
The same way you cannot understand what he is going through, he can't understand you. The best thing you two can do is work on your own recoveries, him in Al Anon and you in AA. As time goes by and you stay sober and you both start to get healthier, things will work out one way or another.

Hang in there and don't give up until the miracle happens

Soberpotamus

Ditto.

BlueSkies1

You'd think AA people could get together and rewrite that chapter, "To the spouses" and have appropriate advice for the enlightened times.

Soberpotamus

They seem to cover their bases in the Preface, explaining why they don't change the meat of the book. And it says that the changes over the years have had the same purpose: to represent the current membership of AA... of which 15-25% are women. Apparently, they are of the opinion they are accurately representing the woman alcoholic adequately... which clearly they are not, and this is being voiced by women AA's in the program.

At the end of the forward to the first edition, it states: "We shall be interested to hear from those who are getting results from this book..."

Would be nice for them to be open to hearing from the ones of us who take issue with the outdated, sexist, and insulting language and ideas (as well as some odd scientific claims) in the book as well...

Anna

Jstar, I was in a very similar situation. And, I desperately wanted to explain why I became an alcoholic to my husband and teenage children. I so badly wanted them to understand. The thing is, they wanted me to get better, but they had no interest at all in my reasons. To them, it was my problem and my problem to fix.

It was very hard at the time, but it gave me strength and courage and it taught me that this recovery journey is intensely personal.

You should figure out why you relapsed and try to learn from what happened. Just show your husband how you are changing.

jstar

I wish right now I had never posted this post or the other one in friends and family. I feel like I'm in a complete tail spin right now and feel sick to my stomach. I'm at work right now and getting nothing done as all I can think about is this stupid thread. if I didn't have to finish here at work, if I didn't have to pick up my kids in a few hours I think I'd be completely drunk at this moment. And yeah I know...poor me...wtf-ever. I try...I fail. Try. Fail.

Over it

CupofJoe

Hi jstar,

Just wanted to pop back in again.

I think this is a great thread and very helpful for a lot of people. So thank you for posting it.

You know, in early sobriety, it's totally normal for emotions to run really high and to feel a lot of shame and guilt about a lot of things. I know that doesn't make you feel any better right now, but I wanted to reassure you that you have nothing to worry about as far as what you've posted.

Have you looked up PAWS--post acute withdrawal syndrome? Once I found out about this, it helped me understand what I was going through. (I relapsed a lot at first.)

Anyway, just wanted to send some good thoughts your way. There's nothing wrong with wanting your husband to understand, so, again, thanks for asking that question.

But, more importantly, do what you need to in order to take care of yourself today. Breathe, go for a walk, go to a meeting, whatever will make you feel better today.

Take care.

ClearLight

I found the Friends and Family forum to be very enlightening.

It's filled with people who are having their lives ruined by alcoholics they stay with rather than dump. It seems like 90% of them could make their lives SO much better by simply dumping their alcoholic spouse.

As an alcoholic it's a real eye opener. I recommend everyone read that forum on a regular basis.

Jstar - If your husband has stuck with you after years of drinking. If he has stayed with you in the hospital after you OD'd. If he took care of the kids and ran the house while you were in rehab. If he's watched you drink over and over again just in these last weeks -
then he doesn't need someone to explain alcoholism to him.

You will never get him to see the world through alcoholic eyes - lucky for you - because then he would also be an alcoholic and then where would you both be.

Count your lucky stars that he's still with you and do ANYTHING to get sober.

That sobriety is a message he will hear loud and clear.

Carlotta

It's your AV talking, no need to drink over an internet discussion but a good excuse for the beast to start acting up and for the AV to start their mischief. Don't drink and go to a meeting

Ps: I can say don't drink because I am an alcoholic too

Dee74

Try to put the things that upset you behind you jstar - there is support and understanding here - and healing too.

D