RyanC

I've had a psychological dependence on alcohol since a few years ago when I developed an anxiety disorder in my late 20s.

(Side note, feel free to skip: I smoked weed until I started getting compulsive thoughts about developing ALS, and then somaticized the symptoms. I was always pretty rational about what was going on, but it took 2 years and finally insisting on an EMG to put it behind me. To this day I still have muscle fasciculations, but I know it is caused by some issue with GABA in my brain, and so they no longer scare me. I mention this because I felt about hypochondriacs how I felt about people who "allow themselves" to become alcoholics... until it happened to me. Anyway, speaking of "something with GABA"...)

A low dose of benzo would get me through the day, and binge drinking was my party at night. I got over that anxiety, but something is different about me now, and it frustrates me that I can't really describe it. I don't think I came out better. I just like drinking now like I never did before.

The health anxiety passed, but my new taste for the sauce has remained. I'm not 24/7 drunk, but I make up for missed time. Over the few subsequent years since I've vacillated between slightly unhealthy drinking patterns and GTFO binge drinking.

Lately I find myself approaching the latter, though still no where near where I was when I was getting over the anxiety disorder.

Last week I drank every day after work, and a few days during work. I'm self-employed, and I can schedule work around drinking, though there is no denying it's having a detrimental effect on my career now. I'm gonna really lose out on a big pay day for the first time if I keep this up.

Other than that my motivators to change are my wife, who is sick seeing me drinking alone even once a week, and that part of my brain that reminds me that I am killing myself slowly with this lifestyle, and if I'm just a bit unlucky I may kill myself quickly.

On Saturday I woke up with a righteous hangover -- the new ones that I get now which include symptoms of generalized anxiety -- and a wine with lunch did not help! Speaking of GABA issues: I know that's not a good sign. A few drink after that did help, and a few drink more and I was on top of the world again. At midnight I woke up with a hangover, and drank the little booze I had left.

I promised myself I would not buy a bottle the next day, and I didn't, but between 5PM and 2AM I probably managed to buy 12 drinks at local bars and restaurants. I didn't get plastered, but I wasn't sober either.

Now it's Monday morning. I woke up at 9:30 with a relatively mild hangover, but the new hangover anxiety was just annoying enough. I know these new hangovers are the first signs of physical dependence like I never had before, even when I used to drink more.

I just needed a pop or two to take the edge off, but the local liquor store didn't open till noon. I needed cigarettes too, but I elected to walk a few extra blocks to a liquor store I knew would be open instead of to the corner store, and I bought my cigs along with a couple of nips of cheap vodka.

The nausea kept me from drinking them right away. I could have downed them pretty easily, but why force it? It wasn't that bad.

A few hours of tooling around on the internet and procrastinating on work, and the bad hangover symptoms subsided, but I had these two nips next to me, so of course I drank them.

Because I regularly skip breakfast, it was even enough to catch a buzz off of. I feel pretty good again, but I'm not getting more.

I know that I did not drink enough to experience a bad hang over when I come down, and I probably won't have another drink for a few days based on how annoyed I am with myself now.

I also know I need to just stop entirely.

Then what? Can I really never drink again?

I know there is a genetic component to alcoholism, and I can't be sure if I have it, but I don't think so. There are no alcoholics in my family.

Also, drinking is a big part of my family's culture. I can't imagine a future where I have to remind my cousins every holiday and wedding that I'm an alchy and I can't drink. Do you guys think it's too late for me to get a hold of this?

I realize this may be a hot-button question on this forum. If it is then I promise you that my intention is not to start a flame war. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this on this forum. I know there are different subtypes of alcoholism. I'll concede that I fit into some subtype or another. Is my subtype more likely to be able to get a handle on this?

Will I never be able to have a healthy relationship with alcohol?

I enjoy reading clinical research, so if anyone knows of any that might apply in my case, please share.

hypochondriac

All we can do here is share our experience, and by the nature of this site there I don't think you'll find many people here who were able to drink again. I find this interesting though because I did the same thing... you have to wonder if you have underestimated how bad it really is if you are wondering when you can drink again before you've even stopped...?

ScottFromWI

Only you know if you are truly an alcoholic ryan. Just about every one of us most likely asked the question many times about whether or not we could ever drink again. And many of us tried, and the vast majority failed. Have you tried to quit for any period of time at all?

I also come from a family of drinking, but that's just another excuse. Bottom line, you'll always be able to find an excuse to drink if you want to. It's a heck of a lot easier than not drinking.

If you decide to quit, you are definitely in the right place. I wish you the best of luck in your decision and hope you make a good one.

Anna

After reading your post, I wonder why would you want to go through that again? It doesn't sound like fun, and I know from personal experience, it isn't fun. Alcohol is causing problems in your life, so stopping makes sense. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and it will continue to worsen unless you stop drinking.

And, I wouldn't worry about reminding friends & family that you don't drink because you're an alcoholic. A simple 'No, thanks' seems to work for many of us.

RyanC

That's a good point. I really need to focus on just drying out now.

I've never really made an effort to stop. I guess I'm just really now realizing that I have to break this cycle. In the last 4 years I probably haven't gone longer than a week without at least a drink. In the 4 weeks I haven't gone longer than three days.

I don't want to go through this again. I just want to have a normal relationship with alcohol. For the first time I'm wondering if this will ever be possible.

The two nips have worn off, and I don't feel terrible, but I feel worse than I expected.

This has never happened to me before.

ScottFromWI

I had a lot of firsts with alcohol-

The first time I missed work because of it
The first time I had to drink a beer just to take the jitters off before driving my family back across the state
The first time I went to the ER because I thought I was having a heart attack because of real withdrawal symptoms.

And I was one of the very lucky ones who escaped alcohol with my family and job still intact.

Skipping breakfast and replacing it with vodka is a crimson red flag Ryan. Why not take some time off and re-assess your situation?

RyanC

Thanks for pointing that out.

It's helping me realize how cliche I sound.

RyanC

I always said that I was not an alcoholic because a real alcoholic has a physical dependence.

Writing this out has helped me make the connection that this is no longer "taking the edge off my hangover".

This is craving.

BabyJane

All I can say is that I have SO been where you are right now, and I remember it well because it was insanely uncomfortable and miserable at times - almost like having a perpetual itch I could never quite scratch away. I felt like I was being eaten away slowly and I knew it but I couldnt fathom the thought of just QUITTING FOREVER. It is a day to day process. There are still times in my life, after years of no alcohol, where I question my ability to go forward with sobriety. It does get easier but you have to be willing or desperate enough to walk over the hot coals, if you will... Yes it will be uncomfortable to find out if your life can become better once you remove the alcohol. I thought I was going to go insane in the beginning. I had anxiety like mad. I was depressed. I had no sober friends. I had no idea how to live anymore.

Just know that you aren't alone. Sorry if this sounds cliche but it does get better, overall, the longer you commit to not drinking. My progress has been painfully slow at times. I have to just sit with these icky feelings and I hate it but I don't hate it as much as I hated the hangovers, the job loss, the wrecked relationships, the regrets...

I wish you the very best. I think you can quit, at least for today.

Grungehead

Ryan,

I don't know too many "normal drinkers" that walk to the liquor store in the morning to buy a bottle of vodka to take the edge off. But I also think that the majority of people who wonder if they might have a problem hope that they can "get a handle on it" and drink like a normal person again. No one here can tell you for sure if you can or can't, we can only share our experiences with you. Before I first got into recovery I tried to control my drinking by quitting for a month (to prove I could do it) and limiting how many drinks I had per day. I was able to quit for that month and the next day I got plastered. I was able to limit my drinks for a short while but it never lasted more than a few weeks. I have been battling alcohol for 30 years to see who has the strongest will and alcohol wins every time. My track record is proof that I can't control alcohol and every time I try not only do I fail, but I get progressively worse and stopping gets progressively more difficult.

Having said all of that I haven't given up. I am one of the lucky ones that has survived to fight another day (not all do) and I am grateful to be sober today. Given my past history quitting forever seems impossible, but like BabyJane said I can quit at least for today...that is manageable.

Dee74

I think theres been some great advice here Ryan and you've had some great insights yourself.

Having read your posts, and your history, I don't think there's much difference between you and anyone else here Ryan.

I drank booze for breakfast too - looking back now, I can't believe that didn't pull me up and make me say 'hey waiddaminute'....but it didn't.

D

Zebra1275

When I would wash down my Egg McMuffin with a couple of beers I new I was in trouble.

If you are anything like me, you can never drink normally again.

RyanC

I appreciate that. Unfortunately I did not stay sober for the rest of the day. I had three drinks with dinner with my wife and my most important client, the last one about 5 hours ago at 10 PM. Worse still these were heavy pours, so it was enough to get me slightly drunk, but not enough that my wife was annoyed at me, which is a significant barometer in my life.

Based on the fact that I told myself I would not drink again after the 100 ml of "hair of the dog" vodka at noon and then I did anyway, it's only fair to say that "I lost the day" today.

For the first time in a few days I also smoked a small amount of marijuana after dinner (~0.2 g mid-grade), but this is not such a horrible thing in my case. Whereas it would make most people anxious and want to drink more, for whatever reason when I'm drinking weed is the only thing that will kill that "just one more" mentality for me every time. It also kills my appetite and keeps me awake, so I would definitely not expect other people to react like me. This "harm reduction" may be the primary reason I use it at all to be honest. It's not otherwise that enjoyable for me anymore. I cannot stress enough that I don't recommend anyone try this at home, nor am I saying this is a "good thing" for me in general.


Today was like a close loss against a below average opponent on the road.

That said, I've been getting blown out at home by the worst teams in the league for the last week or two.



I feel very positive. I feel like I have something to be positive about. Here is just some good that came out of today:

1) I'm speaking honestly to people (you guys) for the first time in my life about how I drink and drug. This is giving me a perspective I've never had before.

2) My bad withdrawal symptoms subsided before dinner and drinks, and did not come back after (e.g. "jitters", "impending sense of doom", nausea, cravings, overwhelmed/helpless sensation). I'm not drunk now, and I don't want to drink, even though I easily could.

3) I got a ton of stuff done for work. I worked 9 AM to 9:30 PM, with minimal procrastination. I spent less than two hours on this forum (and that's not really procrastination), and less than two hours procrastinating in general, which adds up to an honest days work. That's probably the first one in two weeks.

4) I really think I've broken the cycle of at least this latest binge, and I need to start somewhere, right?

5) I had an epiphany (and not of the sort that sound great when you're drunk but are actually stupid): I've had on and off issues with anxiety since I was a child. They seem to go away when I exercise. I was a two-sport athlete, and now I sit around all day doing a job I don't really like, I'm 20 lbs overweight, and this lack of physical activity may be worse for me than I think (and I already think it's pretty bad). Since I've started drinking, my consumption levels increase as I spend more time away from the gym or a court or a field or something.

6) I realized a lot of thing about myself, including how my arrogance allowed me to get to this point. I did not give alcohol enough respect, because I thought "it can't happen to me, so I can do whatever feels good." I now realize that I cannot use binge drinking as a reward for anything, much less for doing things I should be doing anyway.



So instead of worrying about my long-term relationship with booze, I get the impression that I should be more worried about short term plans and goals.

My very short-term plan is to watch TV for an hour or so and not think about alcohol at all. I took a non-narcotic sleep aid which I hope will keep me down for 8 undisturbed hours after that (work permitting). I made sure to schedule nothing in the morning tomorrow. I want to get my first good night's sleep in a long time, and wake up feeling well for the first time in a long time.

Then, I want to win tomorrow. I want to end this losing streak. I'm very confident I can make this happen.

In the less short-term there are three big jobs I need to finish, and that need a lot of make-up time. When those are done, my overweight butt is getting back in the gym.

No matter what plays out in the long-term, these are things that I must do in the short-term anyway. I'm not ready to make long-term plans for myself, one way or another. I just wanna see where this goes for now.

tsukiko

None of my family or people where I grew up were alcoholic either - because that was considered their culture. I moved away and quickly realised if they were uprooted and dropped in certain other places, they'd all be considered drunks. Though, they worked, raised families etc. Some of them never even got drunk. Alcoholism ain't the amount you drink and don't always involve a doorway and a brown paperbag, y'know. They never quit to realise they might not be able to and no one ever challenged their drinking because they were all in the same boat; that was their way of life. Its a risky thing challenging what people consider their culture.

Different families, different places, different attitudes etc. Not saying this applies to you, but not saying it don't either.

Different types of alcoholic? Sure...those who drink and those who don't. The 'type' who stop are the ones who 'get a handle' on things, in my experience. Wish my experience was different...I tried to be a social drinker for ages...posted on here about it quite a bit too.

Now I've come to the conclusion....

Those who are able to have a 'healthy relationship' with booze have one. They don't need to try at it or use semantics (junkie / addict logic) to try create one or master one. Said it a billion times, but way I see it...if y'need to try and be a normal drinker, you are not a normal drinker and prolly' shouldn't drink.

And, when asked (almost daily), 'oh, you don't drink? How come?', I usually just say 'I don't like what it does to me'. That's no lie.

FeelingGreat

Ryan, when you can find the clarity and motivation, quitting alcohol will be the turning point in your life.

DarkDays

It's so liberating to free from alcoHELL and all the bs that goes with it.

Good luck whatever you do.

sugarbear1

a real alcoholic can't live without drinking......

RyanC

Thanks for all the responses.

Special thanks to tsukiko for taking the time to write that. I read it all three times and listened closely.

Quick update:

Everything is pretty much going to plan so far. I didn't get a good night's sleep as work obligations came calling early, but I don't feel like I'm in withdrawal.

I don't have cravings. Quite the opposite.

I said I wanted to win the day today, and so far I'm way ahead.

I really do feel great, better than I have in some time. I almost feel too well, like I'm slightly manic or something, but I don't want to over think anymore for now.

Work is going really well today, and I wanna focus on that at this time, but I'll check back in after.

Thanks again.

Michael66

Hi Ryan. I'm sure you know this but normal people schedule drinking around work and not work around drinking.

I don't know if you can ever drink again - many say that once a physical dependence has formed you're pretty far down the alcoholic path, and it's best not to risk going any further. What I do know, though, is that sobriety is really cool once you're used to it. You don't need to hanker after a "healthy" relationship with alcohol, as alcohol is totally superfluous to a happy, content and peaceful life.

Nuudawn

Hi Ryan. Great thread. I have pondered that eternal question endlessly. Can I someday (when I wake up over the rainbow) be a normal drinker. For me, it's looking pretty doubtful because I love the escapist affect of alcohol. I know my brain probably sees little benefit in "just one" despite the fact I have debated the issue of how one glass of wine makes my meal taste oh so much better...and it's all so sophisticated and lovely..but I always end up having another. There are times I am okay with a glass or two but often, it's more than that and lately is manic madwoman drunk passed out in my clothes. Not pretty.

Although I have read a lot about neurotransmitter function and addiction I was a little unclear on your GABA issue. You have a deficiency that causes the anxiety? I'm starting to think right there tangled up in all the roots of addiction.