Struggling with Step 2...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by 2granddaughters 
What does your sponsor say about this?
All the best.
Bob R
All the best.
Bob R
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
One thing that became obvious to me is that I couldn't keep myself sober...I have tried many times and failed. I see myself as agnostic too. But I also see a bunch of people going to meetings that are sober, so if they are anything like me something is keeping them sober besides themselves. So right now my higher power is the group. I know that a group of people are more powerful than just me so it works for right now.
Re-Tread
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Meditation
Posts: 1,300
If people in AA are trying to get you to believe that their God is right for you, I can see why you feel as you do. That type of thinking usually just leads to arguing and defensiveness in my experience. I have not had that happen to me around here. Sad to hear your choices of meetings are slim.
That said, the whole AA program is about finding a relationship with some form of higher power. I hear you on the science.. I have my degree in Chemistry. Are you willing to believe in something you feel there's no proof of?
Not in any way trying to talk you into it or debate. But the Big Bang theory has plenty of limitations and assumptions. I have not heard of one principle in science that rules out the possibility of a higher power. A good amount of science certainly requires a level of faith.
Anyway step 2 turns out to be the step that has helped me stay sober. I have only completed through 3. And it is not the 1st part of step 2 that has helped me it is the bit about being restored to sanity. I came to believe that it was insane after all the nightmares drinking brought into my life I still kept picking it back up. Every time I thought a drink sounded good, one of my tools is to remind myself for me to drink is insanity.
Works for me. If you do not think you can believe maybe check out the book Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey. And the secular forums here have great information too.
That said, the whole AA program is about finding a relationship with some form of higher power. I hear you on the science.. I have my degree in Chemistry. Are you willing to believe in something you feel there's no proof of?
Not in any way trying to talk you into it or debate. But the Big Bang theory has plenty of limitations and assumptions. I have not heard of one principle in science that rules out the possibility of a higher power. A good amount of science certainly requires a level of faith.
Anyway step 2 turns out to be the step that has helped me stay sober. I have only completed through 3. And it is not the 1st part of step 2 that has helped me it is the bit about being restored to sanity. I came to believe that it was insane after all the nightmares drinking brought into my life I still kept picking it back up. Every time I thought a drink sounded good, one of my tools is to remind myself for me to drink is insanity.
Works for me. If you do not think you can believe maybe check out the book Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey. And the secular forums here have great information too.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 49
In the meetings that I go to we talk about higher power and some people do use "God" as theirs but they mostly focus on higher power. For today my higher power are my kids Who know where the road will take me. As long as its far away from a drink I still go. (9 days today) You never know.
Good luck
Angie
Good luck
Angie
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,937
Originally Posted by Arbigyle
She says take it slow, no need to rush anything.
Sharing "at" people in a meeting is inappropriate. If someone in AA is sharing "at" you in an AA meeting and it is making you uncomfortable there are two ways to address that. The best way is to square off with them after the meeting. They will offer excuses, just stay on message that you are uncomfortable with it. The second is to get up and leave the room for coffee or whatever when they begin sharing "at" you.
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Hi Arbigyle
Just on faith and science - there are plenty of us scientists who are Christians. You might want to have a look at Home | BioLogos
But faith is deeply personal, and I can understand the reluctance to pressure.
Just on faith and science - there are plenty of us scientists who are Christians. You might want to have a look at Home | BioLogos
But faith is deeply personal, and I can understand the reluctance to pressure.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 456
As a devout agnostic, I very much struggled with that as well. At my first meeting I read the twelve steps and looked at step 2 and thought to myself "I wanted this so bad, there's no way I can do this." My sobriety month was February so it seemed every meeting was fixated on the whole God thing. I couldn't get sober by myself and saw it worked for others so I kept coming back - just in case it might work for me.
As most of us new in recovery, I was vehemently opposed to religion - therefore any reasonable notion of God. I likely interpreted "God" as the Christian God I learned to hate.
Here are some of the traditions - "long form."
It doesn't say what form God should take and certainly doesn't mention Jesus.
Celebrate Recovery likely came about due to religious affiliation (don't know this for sure).
It doesn't say "we believed," it says "came to believe." And it doesn't say that power is God. It just says a power greater than ourselves. For me, that power was a group of other alcoholics getting together to work out how to live their lives without alcohol.
The twelfth step says - as a result of these steps - the spiritual awakening is a result, not a condition. I've found, also, that those who are truly honest with themselves have a spiritual awakening that is uniquely personal, hard to describe, and rarely resembles anything they've previously learned or expected.
To be honest, of the many hundreds and hundreds of AA'ers I've met, I know only two that regularly proclaim religion as a key part of their recovery who have more than 6 months of sobriety (one guy is at six months, the other is at 20+ years).
AA is a program to for living.
Christianity is a program to be prepared for after we're dead.
It's a really good program and one we never finish. I have no doubt that as you build time in sobriety you'll find your voice and learning how this very simple program works from what book says, and not the people say you'll discover "AA's Promises" more quickly than many who struggle through it for years.
"Keep coming back"
As most of us new in recovery, I was vehemently opposed to religion - therefore any reasonable notion of God. I likely interpreted "God" as the Christian God I learned to hate.
Here are some of the traditions - "long form."
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
3.—Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other
affiliation.
affiliation.
10.—No A.A. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate A.A., express any opinion on outside controversial issues—particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The Alcoholics Anonymous groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
To be honest, of the many hundreds and hundreds of AA'ers I've met, I know only two that regularly proclaim religion as a key part of their recovery who have more than 6 months of sobriety (one guy is at six months, the other is at 20+ years).
AA is a program to for living.
Christianity is a program to be prepared for after we're dead.
It's a really good program and one we never finish. I have no doubt that as you build time in sobriety you'll find your voice and learning how this very simple program works from what book says, and not the people say you'll discover "AA's Promises" more quickly than many who struggle through it for years.
"Keep coming back"
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ardmore, OK
Posts: 8
Thanks Angie.
You are doing great, I had a using drink last night. I am so happy to wake up to something positive.
When I am sad I watch soulpancake.com. Just a little help for me to restore my faith in humanity.
You are doing great, I had a using drink last night. I am so happy to wake up to something positive.
When I am sad I watch soulpancake.com. Just a little help for me to restore my faith in humanity.
Originally Posted by Angiekins3
In the meetings that I go to we talk about higher power and some people do use "God" as theirs but they mostly focus on higher power. For today my higher power are my kids Who know where the road will take me. As long as its far away from a drink I still go. (9 days today) You never know.
Good luck
Angie
Good luck
Angie
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 49
Arbigyle
Thanks for sharing that site. I have never seen it before its great!
I think for me I realized that I was putting wayyy to much thought into what that higher power is and I think maybe that is what you are doing to. I am totally not convinced yet I have not given into it so please understand I get what you are feeling. But there is something in me that has changed a bit, hopeful..I am still young (well in my eyes) I am 39 and I have 3 kids and I have to be honest I pretty much have been raising them with no religion becuase of my struggle. But would I WANT them to have a belief YES absoloutley. But how can I teach them if I dont know. And if its good for them well why not me.
I am "trying" to start my life over like my kids who resist change. Is soooooooo hard for us alcoholics to change WE HATE IT!!! lol There isnt a meeting that someone has not said that.
Keep your heart open dont turn anything away. Every lesson is a gift.
I hope you have a great day
Angie
Thanks for sharing that site. I have never seen it before its great!
I think for me I realized that I was putting wayyy to much thought into what that higher power is and I think maybe that is what you are doing to. I am totally not convinced yet I have not given into it so please understand I get what you are feeling. But there is something in me that has changed a bit, hopeful..I am still young (well in my eyes) I am 39 and I have 3 kids and I have to be honest I pretty much have been raising them with no religion becuase of my struggle. But would I WANT them to have a belief YES absoloutley. But how can I teach them if I dont know. And if its good for them well why not me.
I am "trying" to start my life over like my kids who resist change. Is soooooooo hard for us alcoholics to change WE HATE IT!!! lol There isnt a meeting that someone has not said that.
Keep your heart open dont turn anything away. Every lesson is a gift.
I hope you have a great day
Angie
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
Originally Posted by Arbigyle
She says take it slow, no need to rush anything. I think I am stressing so much I am missing other important lessons.
I was at a 2nd Step table yesterday morning.
There was 6 of us at the table and total sober time among us was ~126 yrs sobriety.
We were all working on Step 2 and I think we're making headway.
I always thought I was better than/worse than I really was and always thought I should be in a different place than where I was.... and didn't think I needed a H.P.. I was wrong on all counts.
Coming to believe is a process for me today and I'm pretty well OK with where I'm at in the process.
I am being restored to sanity.
All the best.
Bob R
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