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Old timer in AA said I dont deserve to be sober we're all selfish and self centered?

Old 05-12-2013, 05:53 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:03 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I think we need to earn the responsibilities that go with an accomplished and purposeful sobriety. This kind of responsible earning makes sense to me as a responsibility.

My sobriety itself is also experienced as a spiritual sobriety, and there is nothing in a spiritual sense to be earned. Spiritualism just is, or it isn't. There is no qualifying requirement which otherwise prohibits spiritualism that I have ever discovered in my years of experience.

As for being self-centered and selfish while sober, I am in fact Christ-centered and unselfish, so the old-timer is wrong if he is speaking about everyone who is sober. I also know I'm not alone in my experiences.

Anyways.

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Old 05-12-2013, 06:12 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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I've heard people say in meeting that they don't deserve the gift of sobriety. Take what you need and leave the rest.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:43 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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What I'm hearing is an angry, ex-drunk getting on his high-horse and engaging in verbal gymnastics in a poorly thought out attempt to make a point. IMO, it's pure b*llshit. For anyone scratching their heads and wondering why AA sometimes gets a bad rap, it's because of this kind of pseudo-psycho babble that is often spouted by people who are not medical professionals, who do not have any training in a psychological field and are not addiction treatment specialists.

Telling the hard truth is fine; insulting and belittling people (many of whom are in a precarious mental state) is not.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:50 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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OK...Lets not get heated, or start bashing methods.

You guys know thats not the way we do things here.

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)


If a thread is upsetting you, move on.

I've heard loads of opinions I think have been expressed poorly or I just out and out don't agree with.

I hear them from all kinds of people - from all recovery perspectives.
It's a human thing above anything else.

D
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:01 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Yeh! As they say in the mob, "Ah Fugeddaboud id!" "Ged on wid it!"

W.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:03 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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The way I look at it, as a result of the decisions I've made and the things I did to other people, I do not deserve what I now have. It's not so much that I don't deserve to be sober as that I do not deserve to be alive. But it is by grace and mercy that I am cleaned of my past and get to move into a future where I don't have to get what I "deserve". That's how I look at it, anyway.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:10 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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I've never heard "None of us deserve to be sober" but I feel that AA has given me more than I deserve.



And a 65-70 yrs isn't old .... it's young middle-aged.

All the best.

Bob R
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:30 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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When people ask me how I am, I like to quip, "not as well as I'd like, but better than I deserve."

I'm just glad to have a seat. AlcoholISM (I, self, me). I will always have to work to attain spiritual growth and keep that ego of mine right-sized.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:41 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
 
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Well an "oldtimer" is someone who has many many years in the program. I wouldn't consider 10 years an "oldtimer" but that's just me.

I know of the crusty old curmudgeon type. I love them. I really do. I would have (and I have) asked him to tell me more. There could be a million and one reasons behind his statement.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:17 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by honeypig View Post
"none of you deserve to be sober"? That sounds really odd--curious to see what others have to say about that.....
by saying none of us deserve to be sober that implies that we do deserve something,I'm thinking,so if I didn't know this guy better I'd ask him "Well what do we deserve then?" there was a new guy there too and to new people like I used to be when it's obvious someone has been around for a long time they are AA it's not the book or writings on the wall luckily I can see past it to a point but it still discourages me from going back there as he is a regular and among several people that every meeting has to chime in about something no matter who is there even people who are obviously new and a bit scared and/or overwhelmed
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:25 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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I'm on smart recovery and hope the meeting that is supposed to be in tampa really does take place one of the 2 listed doesn't.I wanna continue to go to some AA but as an epileptic who doesn't drive it's difficult to just go someplace different w/out making a plan for transportation and so many AA's are closed minded and the one guy who did take me to the one that was going on here a few months ago isn't going to meetings any where
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:30 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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I don't know exactly how much "time he's got" so when I said 10 years that was an at least as I said in the post.As far as the age once again that was probably an underestimate.Bottom line is the whole putting ourselves down and saying we are all self centered egomaniacs is one of the things that turns people away and I was upset about it esp 4 the new guy
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:39 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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that's one of the great contradictions in AA,1st I'm told I have an illness then I'm told I don't deserve to be sober and that all the things that have happened because of my illness and/or disease are really all my fault
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:43 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by robgt350 View Post
i think that is the classical that old timers say "in the good ol days" or "back in my days". one of my old teachers used to say " in the ol days we did not have computers" but you see him typing away on his computer.
i think most people who say that stuff are jealous or insecure of modern days. that guy who said that, i bet he not only suffered more from alcohol, but took longer to get sober than few of the younger people in there. so i bet he is projecting history and resentment on others.
I agree and so many people of the older regulars at this meeting use it as a forum to talk about whatever they want as long as they say they are an alcoholic first.I have epilepsy and cant drive safely and don't drive it's illegal even if I did want to so very upsetting to here this negative guy say these things in front of impressionable new people w/out regard for the effect it has on them
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:48 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Coldfusion View Post
Welcome!

I'm glad you've found SoberRecovery.



Much of what is said at AA meetings is open to various interpretations--you can put a positive spin on it or a negative spin. Do you want to stay in AA. or are you looking for another program?
well I guess the poz spin is that I've made a decision to go someplace else inasmuch as an epileptic who doesn't drive can but taking a 2 hour counting having to change buses 3 times to get to an hour long meeting somewhere else is tough enough so I'm really pissed and feel bad for the new guy there who is getting a bad impression of the group
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:37 PM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by aquamanerik View Post
well I guess the poz spin is that I've made a decision to go someplace else inasmuch as an epileptic who doesn't drive can but taking a 2 hour counting having to change buses 3 times to get to an hour long meeting somewhere else is tough enough so I'm really pissed and feel bad for the new guy there who is getting a bad impression of the group
I don't have any choice in the meetings I go to either, because I live on a small island. Several years ago I took my wife to meetings on the mainland and it was a two hour trip there and sometimes four hours or more to get back home.

But now I put up with my local crew, I did 90 meetings in 90 days then two or three a week thereafter. I have even been to a business meeting, where one can discuss things that are bothersome about meetings.

Have you tried NA? It might be a bit more tolerant than AA.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:53 PM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Maybe it is possible this gentleman has the beginnings of Alzheimer or Dementia ? I only say this because my grandmother had Alzheimer and was put in a home. Some of the residents there also had one or the other and some of the stuff that came of out of their mouths was mind boggling!
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:19 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by aquamanerik View Post
saying we are all self centered egomaniacs
Well, it's quite a creative way to give support to others...

Maybe, to remind this old timer that "judge not, that ye be not judged"?

Best wishes to you on sobriety journey. I think everyone deserves to be sober.

Sometimes people are too eager to judge others and give unsolicited opinions because they are not quite happy with their own lives and hell angry at the entire world.

Take care.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:07 AM
  # 40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by aquamanerik View Post
I left an AA meeting today and felt okay when I went in but felt bad after leaving.This "old timer" an old man (I'm guessing 65-70 years old) who had supposedly been off alcohol for over 10 years said we are all selfish and self centered and none of us deserve to be sober.
There were a couple brand new to AA people there and that was the kind of talk that way back when I was 1st checking out AA and still drinking made me feel bad about myself and kept me from feeling like I could get any help from there and I continued to drink feeling like I was inferior and hopeless.I've been sober for 3 years now and have been around long enough to where I dont think that the one size fits all model of what the main guy who wrote the "Big Book" (that is the AA bible which was copyrighted about 75 years ago) which I believe he modeled after himself is as applicable today as it was then.Even back then it probably was'nt but I think that the primary writer did about as good as he could way back then.
I hear this kind of talk a lot esp from older members but is it really so?

May I just say that perhaps all he meant was that in light of how we acted...if we actually got what we deserved...it wouldn't be sobriety.

Selfish, self-centered, inconsiderate habits...how we treated people...that we don't deserve sobriety, and all it's goodness.

Deserve....to me, implies expectation...taken for granted.

We don't deserve sobriety and goodness after how we acted...

All he is saying is that he doesn't think we deserve it...

All he is sharing is his feelings on the matter. We don't have to adopt his feelings.

Anyone can say anything in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Try to consider what he is saying...

Deserve, to me also means give it to me...I deserve...and maybe he is just saying after how we acted, we should not demand anything, or ask for special treatment.
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