dogg

Hi all,

Been attending CA now for 6 months, after self referring myself to a local government drug recovery agency. In that 6 months at most I have achieved 3.5 weeks clean.

I am told in CA I must believe in "Him" and "God", completely surrender, commit to "do anything", pray daily, etc etc.

I was feeling very restless last Friday and wanting to pick up. I thought I would instead pick up the Big Book as I am advised to at CA. I read Chapter 6from start to finish.

It made me feel worse than before because what it was telling me (my translation at least anyway) is that unless I believe in Him/God I will not get better. Chapter 6 discusses "Into Action" - much of this action revolves around a religious theme. It even says if you are not religious you might find it useful nevertheless to visit a priest, rabbi etc.

I am not religious. I could not be more un-religious.

My book shelf is full to the brim of science books and I simply cannot believe that all I need to do is believe in a "higher power" and I will be fine, because he will do everything for me. I cannot believe in a higher power because I firmly believe one does not exist.

I shared at my last CA meeting that I found Chapter 6 very difficult and was advised by the Chair of the meeting that CA is not religious. But it is. It very clearly is. I do not know why they refer so much to "God"/"Him" but insist they are not a religious group.

I also of course blame myself, it is not CAs fault I haven't managed to stay clean, it is my own fault and no one else's.

I don't really know where to look next, hence my scour around the net and I found this place.

Im not sure what I am looking to get out of this post, but if anyone is reading and can offer some advice or otherwise do reply.

Many thanks

Dogg...

ScottFromWI

Welcome to SR Dogg. There is a lot of information and separate subforums for many Secular recovery methods here, as well as AA/NA info. Sorry to hear you haven't found a plan that works for you yet, but there are a lot of different options.

The most important thing is to find something that works, rather than fighting with yourself and/or a program that isn't working for you. I am not an AA participant, but I have been to some meetings and they were not as overtly religious as your particular group seems to be. Perhaps it's just not your thing, but you could try a different group potentially. Private counciling might be another option too. I personally just use SR and my family for my support network and it seems to be working fine.

Again, welcome and let us know how we can help.

bigsombrero

What is "CA?"

dogg

CA is Cocaine Anon.

Altho, cocaine has never actually been my problem or drug of choice.

doggonecarl

Welcome to SR. There are any of number of paths to recovery. Myself, I'm not sure which is more important--the path one chooses, or the committment to get clean?

Since you were in CA, let me ask you, what step were you on? Have you shared your concerns about the religiousness of the program with your sponsor?

Could you view the program as spiritual rather than religious? The guide to the 12 steps says,

"...Coming to believe in a Higher Power's ability to restore us to sanity does not require that we believe in God. All we need is an open mind and a willingness to believe that there is a power greater than ourselves (pages 46 and 47).

I am not going to tell you to stay in CA. Like I said, it's possible to recover outside of a 12-step program. But leave only if you can answer truely that it is the program that is not working, not you not working the program.

bigsombrero

I like you Carl! But - tell me Carl, would you like to go to a Muslim AA meeting where they talked about Allah all the time? And every time the meeting ended you had to praise Allah? Is that something you'd be comfortable with? What if that was your only option? How would you feel then? Something tells me you might look for something else.

People will always parrot out the fact that you don't need to believe in the ancient superstitions of religion to be in AA or CA or whatever - that's true. HOWEVER - you will be surrounded by tons of people who praise God, mention God, and talk about how much they love God and God loves them. God is mentioned in HALF of the steps and also in the Serenity Prayer after every meeting.

No thanks. Say Dogg, I have been to something here in Chicago called "Quad-A" (Atheists and Agnostics AA). The group is small, unfortunately, but at least there's something. Maybe you could check out "Quad-A" in your area? Good luck!

dogg

Thanks fore reply. I am at Step 8 (haven't finished yet) and completely shared with my sponsor my (un)religious convictions. He too, for what its worth, has no real firm belief in God, but does believe in a Higher Power.

I am aware the 12 steps indicate you need an open mind if not a belief in God.

I think actually my post is more of a rant at my clear failure to try to do something I set out to do. I do not mean to be negative about CA as I have watched people come in and remain clean by following the programme in shorter time than I have been attending. The programme just hasn't worked for me.

Its strange because I am in every other aspect of my life I am successful with a great job and good education, I am very satisfied with life except for my inability to stop using. Yet I seem to be incapable of stopping using. That's what I guess I cant figure out.

dogg

Dude, I really appreciated the start of the post - it really sums up I guess how I am right now.

I am in London so have started to look around for alternatives, and came across here. Will let you know what London has to offer that is not CA. Cheers!!!!

Dib42

I can't help but remember the Quote from Richard Dawkins, "If you open your mind too much, your brain will fall out."

Would you concider yourself a militant athiest? Do you find yourself preaching atheism to religious people?

I'm just curious if its possible to not take these particular steps so literal, and to alternate God/Higher Power etc, with something along the lines of "The clean/sober you." That person that is inside of us that knows the right thing to do, but is often defeated by our subconsious mind or our AV.
Prayer could be non-spiritual meditation, or just spending time with your own thoughts.

Eh... its too hard to supliment, alternate, or rework the system so it'd be a better fit for you... its probably just best to find a different group, or hang out on SR a lot. (My wife, a couple close friends and SR are my alternative to any sort of group meeting, its been working well, so far... but who knows)

Dib42

I think you make a very outstanding point that a lot of christians have a hard time coming to terms with. One particular interesting point, recently some districts in the US have switched schooling over to allow public funding for private schools. Many were excited for Christian based schools to recieve public funding, then they began protesting when they learned muslim based schooling would recieve the same additional funding. Quite interesting...

But I digress...

I'd attend a muslim AA or CA meeting if it was the only option and the only way I thought I could stay clean. Yes it'd feel aweful that was the only option. But if I needed it, it go

dogg

Dib,

Militant atheist absolutely not.

I do however consider myself to have a rational understanding of the world/space around me without having to rely on what are ultimately superstitions.

Superstitions of which originated from the thinker not having a rational sense of the world around them.

I would never preach in any sense on any subject, and have never encouraged anyone to disown their religious beliefs, no.

My regular weekly (and more) attendance at CA over the previous 6 months I think is conviction itself to the programme. I asked my sponsor just last week when we met "do I need to hit rock bottom to stop?"

He of course didn't know the answer, but nevertheless, just having the conversation helped.

With regard to God/Him. I do try to swap "Him" for something I find more palatable. It does become increasingly difficult however when all the literature you are given and the vast majority of people in your support Group have found God and shout loudly about the fact He is now in their lives and they couldn't now live without His help (admittedly, despite not coming to CA to find him)

Dogg

bigsombrero

So would I. In fact I do go to AA about once per month, just to switch things up. I use SR, a sprinkling of AA, SMART, AVRT, you name it. I just do something each day to keep focused on sobriety. I was just trying to illustrate a point, which I think both you and Dogg completely understood. Thanks for the feedback!

Dib42

I was mostly curious, as I have some friend who are militant about their athiesm. The kind you can't invite to dinner parties. . .

And for someone of that nature, I think their focus would stray from sobriety towards "what the hell is all this god stuff."

Ultimately you have to do what you have to do. If you feel you have a better option, I suggest taking it. If CA is the best you can do, its better than nothing.

Seems strange to me that an interventionist diety would help me get sober, but wouldn't have helped me from getting addicted in the first place. But that's a whole nother topic for a whole nother forum.

Do what you have to do to stay clean/sober.

dogg

That reminded me of a recent experience.

I started going to a new barbers about 12 months ago. I get my hair cut every 10 or 12 days without fail. A young group of brothers run the shop, muslim, devout believers.

They regularly discuss their religion to me and other customers. I am not interested and disagree with pretty much everything they say although do not tell them as such, I am polite, and nod my head listening to what they say.

I would not invite these guys to my dinner party for sake of having the conversation turned into an unwelcome religious exchange.

The saying in England is Each To Their Own.

I have no idea what it is for you guys in the States.

Dogg

Dib42

Its very similar, in the states its "To each their own"

visch1

I found that Mother Nature is a greater higher power than me and has worked. Believe if you want to in a religious one, I find it difficult to accept Religion because in the name of religion more deaths resulted than just about all reasons. BE WELL