Boundaries: How to Get, Have and Uphold Them
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Boundaries: How to Get, Have and Uphold Them
Hi gang. There has been some talk on various threads about boundaries - how to get them, how to know what they are, and how to uphold them.
I am not an expert by any means, but I have learned some things about boundaries that have changed my life for the better and I do not see them being discussed. I think that people with great boundaries aren't sure how to explain just why that is so, or the steps involved.
I think that it would be fun to try out these three steps and keep this tread updated with progress!
A boundary is, according to author Talane Miedaner, "Something that people can't do to or around you". They are mostly unspoken - you don't often have to remind people to not hit you, because many have the boundary "people can't hit me". If you don't have the boundary "people can't yell at me", then you might find yourself the scapegoat of others' anger.
Quickly, the steps that have helped me:
1) Identify your boundaries by brainstorming on a sheet of paper. Write down what people can't do to or around you.
2) When and if someone violates your boundary, calmy and briefly tell that person in a neutral voice. Do not have any hint of anger or sass or sadness in your voice. Be concise and brief.
3) Refine your list of boundaries as time goes on. You might not care if someone interrupts you or smokes around you, but you might have a boundary that "people can't run errands and make me wait in the car if I am a passenger, unless I say it's OK beforehand."
It really only works if you care about the boundary enough to stick up for yourself vocally, and if you maintain a neutral voice. You can't sound condescending in any way, as this invites bickering and resentment, not respect. It does work though.
If you have a boundary that people can't give me unsolicited criticism (insults), then stick up for yourself in a calm voice. With these new skills, you soon won't have any friends that cause you confusion, misery and pain, and you too will treat others' better by being more sensitive to their possible boundaries before acting and speaking.
I wish I'd learned this as a kid.
I am not an expert by any means, but I have learned some things about boundaries that have changed my life for the better and I do not see them being discussed. I think that people with great boundaries aren't sure how to explain just why that is so, or the steps involved.
I think that it would be fun to try out these three steps and keep this tread updated with progress!
A boundary is, according to author Talane Miedaner, "Something that people can't do to or around you". They are mostly unspoken - you don't often have to remind people to not hit you, because many have the boundary "people can't hit me". If you don't have the boundary "people can't yell at me", then you might find yourself the scapegoat of others' anger.
Quickly, the steps that have helped me:
1) Identify your boundaries by brainstorming on a sheet of paper. Write down what people can't do to or around you.
2) When and if someone violates your boundary, calmy and briefly tell that person in a neutral voice. Do not have any hint of anger or sass or sadness in your voice. Be concise and brief.
3) Refine your list of boundaries as time goes on. You might not care if someone interrupts you or smokes around you, but you might have a boundary that "people can't run errands and make me wait in the car if I am a passenger, unless I say it's OK beforehand."
It really only works if you care about the boundary enough to stick up for yourself vocally, and if you maintain a neutral voice. You can't sound condescending in any way, as this invites bickering and resentment, not respect. It does work though.
If you have a boundary that people can't give me unsolicited criticism (insults), then stick up for yourself in a calm voice. With these new skills, you soon won't have any friends that cause you confusion, misery and pain, and you too will treat others' better by being more sensitive to their possible boundaries before acting and speaking.
I wish I'd learned this as a kid.
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I can't thank you enough for this thread CrossFox 
I am paradoxically incredibly passive and really defensive when it comes to boundaries. I tend to accept criticism because I think I deserve it but more often than not I get angry about it and don't respond well. I think that's where I'm falling down. Any tips on remaining calm rather than being snappy? For example, when my mum comes to visit and criticises the state of my house or how many books I have, how do I not just say '**** you mum'? 
x
I am paradoxically incredibly passive and really defensive when it comes to boundaries. I tend to accept criticism because I think I deserve it but more often than not I get angry about it and don't respond well. I think that's where I'm falling down. Any tips on remaining calm rather than being snappy? For example, when my mum comes to visit and criticises the state of my house or how many books I have, how do I not just say '**** you mum'? x
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I have found out some things about boundaries in recovery as well.
It's my responsibility to establish and respect my own.
I cannot control the choices and behavior of others, nor can I foist the responsibility to respect my boundaries upon them.
I have to be willing to walk away from situations and people that violate my boundaries, rather than to try to manipulate situations to suit me.
Establishing and maintaining boundaries has been a huge challenge to me. I sometimes feel I am losing something in order to have them, but I realize I am gaining something too.
Freedom, self esteem, a feeling that I can take care of myself, and a better sense of who I am are the rewards of having healthy boundaries.
It's my responsibility to establish and respect my own.
I cannot control the choices and behavior of others, nor can I foist the responsibility to respect my boundaries upon them.
I have to be willing to walk away from situations and people that violate my boundaries, rather than to try to manipulate situations to suit me.
Establishing and maintaining boundaries has been a huge challenge to me. I sometimes feel I am losing something in order to have them, but I realize I am gaining something too.
Freedom, self esteem, a feeling that I can take care of myself, and a better sense of who I am are the rewards of having healthy boundaries.
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hypochondriac, one thing my sponsor has suggested is to "pause when agitated" and something else you may find useful is saying "when you do xyz, I feel, xyz." Love the sinner, hate the sin type thing. Both are gold, IMO
Xx
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:)
Originally Posted by CrossFox 
Hi gang. There has been some talk on various threads about boundaries - how to get them, how to know what they are, and how to uphold them.
_
_
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Originally Posted by Threshold
I have found out some things about boundaries in recovery as well.
It's my responsibility to establish and respect my own.
I cannot control the choices and behavior of others, nor can I foist the responsibility to respect my boundaries upon them.
I have to be willing to walk away from situations and people that violate my boundaries, rather than to try to manipulate situations to suit me.
It's my responsibility to establish and respect my own.
I cannot control the choices and behavior of others, nor can I foist the responsibility to respect my boundaries upon them.
I have to be willing to walk away from situations and people that violate my boundaries, rather than to try to manipulate situations to suit me.
I agree Threshold. People may notice, like I have, a paradox after doing the above three steps in the first post.
I, for onr, filled three pages with my bourndaries, but it's been a while and I have yet to "confront" anyone about even one.
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Originally Posted by hypochondriac
I can't thank you enough for this thread CrossFox I am paradoxically incredibly passive and really defensive when it comes to boundaries. I tend to accept criticism because I think I deserve it but more often than not I get angry about it and don't respond well. I think that's where I'm falling down. Any tips on remaining calm rather than being snappy? For example, when my mum comes to visit and criticises the state of my house or how many books I have, how do I not just say '**** you mum'? x
I am paradoxically incredibly passive and really defensive when it comes to boundaries. I tend to accept criticism because I think I deserve it but more often than not I get angry about it and don't respond well. I think that's where I'm falling down. Any tips on remaining calm rather than being snappy? For example, when my mum comes to visit and criticises the state of my house or how many books I have, how do I not just say '**** you mum'? xI notice that some books on assertiveness cover this "speak in a neutral voice" very well. There are probably resources online too.
I remind myself that these boundary confrontations only work when you speak with mutual well being in mind - not your from a hurt or angry place.
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Originally Posted by CrossFox
Hi gang. There has been some talk on various threads about boundaries - how to get them, how to know what they are, and how to uphold them.
I am not an expert by any means, but I have learned some things about boundaries that have changed my life for the better and I do not see them being discussed. I think that people with great boundaries aren't sure how to explain just why that is so, or the steps involved.
I think that it would be fun to try out these three steps and keep this tread updated with progress!
A boundary is, according to author Talane Miedaner, "Something that people can't do to or around you". They are mostly unspoken - you don't often have to remind people to not hit you, because many have the boundary "people can't hit me". If you don't have the boundary "people can't yell at me", then you might find yourself the scapegoat of others' anger.
Quickly, the steps that have helped me:
1) Identify your boundaries by brainstorming on a sheet of paper. Write down what people can't do to or around you.
2) When and if someone violates your boundary, calmy and briefly tell that person in a neutral voice. Do not have any hint of anger or sass or sadness in your voice. Be concise and brief.
3) Refine your list of boundaries as time goes on. You might not care if someone interrupts you or smokes around you, but you might have a boundary that "people can't run errands and make me wait in the car if I am a passenger, unless I say it's OK beforehand."
It really only works if you care about the boundary enough to stick up for yourself vocally, and if you maintain a neutral voice. You can't sound condescending in any way, as this invites bickering and resentment, not respect. It does work though.
If you have a boundary that people can't give me unsolicited criticism (insults), then stick up for yourself in a calm voice. With these new skills, you soon won't have any friends that cause you confusion, misery and pain, and you too will treat others' better by being more sensitive to their possible boundaries before acting and speaking.
I wish I'd learned this as a kid.
I am not an expert by any means, but I have learned some things about boundaries that have changed my life for the better and I do not see them being discussed. I think that people with great boundaries aren't sure how to explain just why that is so, or the steps involved.
I think that it would be fun to try out these three steps and keep this tread updated with progress!
A boundary is, according to author Talane Miedaner, "Something that people can't do to or around you". They are mostly unspoken - you don't often have to remind people to not hit you, because many have the boundary "people can't hit me". If you don't have the boundary "people can't yell at me", then you might find yourself the scapegoat of others' anger.
Quickly, the steps that have helped me:
1) Identify your boundaries by brainstorming on a sheet of paper. Write down what people can't do to or around you.
2) When and if someone violates your boundary, calmy and briefly tell that person in a neutral voice. Do not have any hint of anger or sass or sadness in your voice. Be concise and brief.
3) Refine your list of boundaries as time goes on. You might not care if someone interrupts you or smokes around you, but you might have a boundary that "people can't run errands and make me wait in the car if I am a passenger, unless I say it's OK beforehand."
It really only works if you care about the boundary enough to stick up for yourself vocally, and if you maintain a neutral voice. You can't sound condescending in any way, as this invites bickering and resentment, not respect. It does work though.
If you have a boundary that people can't give me unsolicited criticism (insults), then stick up for yourself in a calm voice. With these new skills, you soon won't have any friends that cause you confusion, misery and pain, and you too will treat others' better by being more sensitive to their possible boundaries before acting and speaking.
I wish I'd learned this as a kid.
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Hi PreciousKitty,
I made this thread after really seeing my life pattern with the help of a therapist, and after reading the best book on boundaries that I've come across. It's The Secret Laws of Attraction by Talane Miedaner. Even though 'new thought' conflicts a bit with my spiritual beliefs, and even though I'd sworn off self help books after years of reading them, and even though I'm not looking to bag and tag a man, this book really answered any question I had about having and maintaining boundaries in a non manipulative way. I'd encourage anyone who wants a book on boundaries to look for a used one online.
I think that Coach Yourself to Success by the same author also deals with boundaries.
As far as consequences? I am new at this too and working on that myself, but the book I mentioned does go into it. It's not with me right now.
I do like what Robin Norwood says in this permissable excerpt from Letters From Women Who Love Too Much - the follow up to Women Who Love Too Much.
"You said you finally dealt with that by setting some limits regarding what you feel would be acceptable behavior for him. In other words, you told him what you would and would not put up with and now you expect him to tailor his behavior accordingly.
"If his behavior shocked you it's because it violated your value system. You are twenty-six. I'm assuming he is approximately your age. That means that you are both adults, each with your own value systems well developed and opertaing in your lives. What your boyfriend did violated your value system but not his. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting limits on what he is allowed to do. He would be setting his own limits in light of his own values.
"This is not nit-picking on my part, Mikki. You need to recognize that this man is telling you something important about who he is and how he approaches life. It is both naive and presumptuous for you to think that you belong up at the blackboard instructing him that if he wants a relationship with you he should do A and not do B. He is being himself and he will inevitably continue to be himself."
Norwood goes on to say that we are not respecting ourselves or other people when we need them to change their behaviors for us.
I made this thread after really seeing my life pattern with the help of a therapist, and after reading the best book on boundaries that I've come across. It's The Secret Laws of Attraction by Talane Miedaner. Even though 'new thought' conflicts a bit with my spiritual beliefs, and even though I'd sworn off self help books after years of reading them, and even though I'm not looking to bag and tag a man, this book really answered any question I had about having and maintaining boundaries in a non manipulative way. I'd encourage anyone who wants a book on boundaries to look for a used one online.
I think that Coach Yourself to Success by the same author also deals with boundaries.
As far as consequences? I am new at this too and working on that myself, but the book I mentioned does go into it. It's not with me right now.
I do like what Robin Norwood says in this permissable excerpt from Letters From Women Who Love Too Much - the follow up to Women Who Love Too Much.
"You said you finally dealt with that by setting some limits regarding what you feel would be acceptable behavior for him. In other words, you told him what you would and would not put up with and now you expect him to tailor his behavior accordingly.
"If his behavior shocked you it's because it violated your value system. You are twenty-six. I'm assuming he is approximately your age. That means that you are both adults, each with your own value systems well developed and opertaing in your lives. What your boyfriend did violated your value system but not his. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting limits on what he is allowed to do. He would be setting his own limits in light of his own values.
"This is not nit-picking on my part, Mikki. You need to recognize that this man is telling you something important about who he is and how he approaches life. It is both naive and presumptuous for you to think that you belong up at the blackboard instructing him that if he wants a relationship with you he should do A and not do B. He is being himself and he will inevitably continue to be himself."
Norwood goes on to say that we are not respecting ourselves or other people when we need them to change their behaviors for us.
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Originally Posted by CrossFox
Hi PreciousKitty,
I made this thread after really seeing my life pattern with the help of a therapist, and after reading the best book on boundaries that I've come across. It's The Secret Laws of Attraction by Talane Miedaner. Even though 'new thought' conflicts a bit with my spiritual beliefs, and even though I'd sworn off self help books after years of reading them, and even though I'm not looking to bag and tag a man, this book really answered any question I had about having and maintaining boundaries in a non manipulative way. I'd encourage anyone who wants a book on boundaries to look for a used one online.
I think that Coach Yourself to Success by the same author also deals with boundaries.
As far as consequences? I am new at this too and working on that myself, but the book I mentioned does go into it. It's not with me right now.
I do like what Robin Norwood says in this permissable excerpt from Letters From Women Who Love Too Much - the follow up to Women Who Love Too Much.
"You said you finally dealt with that by setting some limits regarding what you feel would be acceptable behavior for him. In other words, you told him what you would and would not put up with and now you expect him to tailor his behavior accordingly.
"If his behavior shocked you it's because it violated your value system. You are twenty-six. I'm assuming he is approximately your age. That means that you are both adults, each with your own value systems well developed and opertaing in your lives. What your boyfriend did violated your value system but not his. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting limits on what he is allowed to do. He would be setting his own limits in light of his own values.
"This is not nit-picking on my part, Mikki. You need to recognize that this man is telling you something important about who he is and how he approaches life. It is both naive and presumptuous for you to think that you belong up at the blackboard instructing him that if he wants a relationship with you he should do A and not do B. He is being himself and he will inevitably continue to be himself."
Norwood goes on to say that we are not respecting ourselves or other people when we need them to change their behaviors for us.
I made this thread after really seeing my life pattern with the help of a therapist, and after reading the best book on boundaries that I've come across. It's The Secret Laws of Attraction by Talane Miedaner. Even though 'new thought' conflicts a bit with my spiritual beliefs, and even though I'd sworn off self help books after years of reading them, and even though I'm not looking to bag and tag a man, this book really answered any question I had about having and maintaining boundaries in a non manipulative way. I'd encourage anyone who wants a book on boundaries to look for a used one online.
I think that Coach Yourself to Success by the same author also deals with boundaries.
As far as consequences? I am new at this too and working on that myself, but the book I mentioned does go into it. It's not with me right now.
I do like what Robin Norwood says in this permissable excerpt from Letters From Women Who Love Too Much - the follow up to Women Who Love Too Much.
"You said you finally dealt with that by setting some limits regarding what you feel would be acceptable behavior for him. In other words, you told him what you would and would not put up with and now you expect him to tailor his behavior accordingly.
"If his behavior shocked you it's because it violated your value system. You are twenty-six. I'm assuming he is approximately your age. That means that you are both adults, each with your own value systems well developed and opertaing in your lives. What your boyfriend did violated your value system but not his. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting limits on what he is allowed to do. He would be setting his own limits in light of his own values.
"This is not nit-picking on my part, Mikki. You need to recognize that this man is telling you something important about who he is and how he approaches life. It is both naive and presumptuous for you to think that you belong up at the blackboard instructing him that if he wants a relationship with you he should do A and not do B. He is being himself and he will inevitably continue to be himself."
Norwood goes on to say that we are not respecting ourselves or other people when we need them to change their behaviors for us.
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Preciouskitty,
One thing I'm noticing about stating boundaries is that, just like providing an explanation where none is needed, an "...or else _____", whether implied or stated, can weaken the statement.
For example, let's suppose that you're out for a burger with friends and you care enough about people smoking around you to stick up for your boundary when it happens. Your party was seated before the party at the next table, who are smoking.
You've decided that "people can't smoke around me", so now you have to assert yourself or suffer your own consequences of not sticking up for yourself (or decide that it's not a boundary but a preference).
What do you think is more effective to a group of strangers:
1) Pardon me, could you not smoke here?
2) PArdon me, my name is Pam from the next table. Sorry - I'm allergic to cigarette smoke. Could you please not smoke around me?
3) Pardon me, I'm sitting over there. I'm going to have to ask you to not smoke, or I'll have to get the manager involved. Yeah thanks!
4) PArdon me, my name is Pam and I have walking pneumonia and the doctor saidIcan'tinhalecigarettesmokeoritcouldkillme. Could you not smoke? Yeah thanks.
My choice is option one. The use of an implied "...or else___" passes the ball back to the person who is being asked to stop crossing your boundary, in a continuation of the exchange. Maybe the smokers respond with a debate about the definition of 'allergy'. Maybe total strangers would like it if this Pam suddenly died. Maybe rolling out a restaurant manager is no consequence at all, but stating your request without extraneous details ends it; the person or people may continue the behavior but likely would prefer not to since few people want to feel like a total ******.
If someone were to respond to my request with a "or else what/ what are you going to do about it?" I'd shrug and say "nothing, you can [unwanted behavior] if you want, I'm just asking you not to". This way, the exchange continues to be about well being and not a contest of wills.
One thing I'm noticing about stating boundaries is that, just like providing an explanation where none is needed, an "...or else _____", whether implied or stated, can weaken the statement.
For example, let's suppose that you're out for a burger with friends and you care enough about people smoking around you to stick up for your boundary when it happens. Your party was seated before the party at the next table, who are smoking.
You've decided that "people can't smoke around me", so now you have to assert yourself or suffer your own consequences of not sticking up for yourself (or decide that it's not a boundary but a preference).
What do you think is more effective to a group of strangers:
1) Pardon me, could you not smoke here?
2) PArdon me, my name is Pam from the next table. Sorry - I'm allergic to cigarette smoke. Could you please not smoke around me?
3) Pardon me, I'm sitting over there. I'm going to have to ask you to not smoke, or I'll have to get the manager involved. Yeah thanks!
4) PArdon me, my name is Pam and I have walking pneumonia and the doctor saidIcan'tinhalecigarettesmokeoritcouldkillme. Could you not smoke? Yeah thanks.
My choice is option one. The use of an implied "...or else___" passes the ball back to the person who is being asked to stop crossing your boundary, in a continuation of the exchange. Maybe the smokers respond with a debate about the definition of 'allergy'. Maybe total strangers would like it if this Pam suddenly died. Maybe rolling out a restaurant manager is no consequence at all, but stating your request without extraneous details ends it; the person or people may continue the behavior but likely would prefer not to since few people want to feel like a total ******.
If someone were to respond to my request with a "or else what/ what are you going to do about it?" I'd shrug and say "nothing, you can [unwanted behavior] if you want, I'm just asking you not to". This way, the exchange continues to be about well being and not a contest of wills.
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Originally Posted by CrossFox
Preciouskitty,
One thing I'm noticing about stating boundaries is that, just like providing an explanation where none is needed, an "...or else _____", whether implied or stated, can weaken the statement.
For example, let's suppose that you're out for a burger with friends and you care enough about people smoking around you to stick up for your boundary when it happens. Your party was seated before the party at the next table, who are smoking.
You've decided that "people can't smoke around me", so now you have to assert yourself or suffer your own consequences of not sticking up for yourself (or decide that it's not a boundary but a preference).
What do you think is more effective to a group of strangers:
1) Pardon me, could you not smoke here?
2) PArdon me, my name is Pam from the next table. Sorry - I'm allergic to cigarette smoke. Could you please not smoke around me?
3) Pardon me, I'm sitting over there. I'm going to have to ask you to not smoke, or I'll have to get the manager involved. Yeah thanks!
4) PArdon me, my name is Pam and I have walking pneumonia and the doctor saidIcan'tinhalecigarettesmokeoritcouldkillme. Could you not smoke? Yeah thanks.
My choice is option one. The use of an implied "...or else___" passes the ball back to the person who is being asked to stop crossing your boundary, in a continuation of the exchange. Maybe total strangers would like it if this Pam suddenly died. Maybe rolling out a restaurant manager is no consequence at all, but stating your request without extraneous details ends it; the person or people may continue the behavior but likely would prefer not to since few people want to feel like a total ******.
One thing I'm noticing about stating boundaries is that, just like providing an explanation where none is needed, an "...or else _____", whether implied or stated, can weaken the statement.
For example, let's suppose that you're out for a burger with friends and you care enough about people smoking around you to stick up for your boundary when it happens. Your party was seated before the party at the next table, who are smoking.
You've decided that "people can't smoke around me", so now you have to assert yourself or suffer your own consequences of not sticking up for yourself (or decide that it's not a boundary but a preference).
What do you think is more effective to a group of strangers:
1) Pardon me, could you not smoke here?
2) PArdon me, my name is Pam from the next table. Sorry - I'm allergic to cigarette smoke. Could you please not smoke around me?
3) Pardon me, I'm sitting over there. I'm going to have to ask you to not smoke, or I'll have to get the manager involved. Yeah thanks!
4) PArdon me, my name is Pam and I have walking pneumonia and the doctor saidIcan'tinhalecigarettesmokeoritcouldkillme. Could you not smoke? Yeah thanks.
My choice is option one. The use of an implied "...or else___" passes the ball back to the person who is being asked to stop crossing your boundary, in a continuation of the exchange. Maybe total strangers would like it if this Pam suddenly died. Maybe rolling out a restaurant manager is no consequence at all, but stating your request without extraneous details ends it; the person or people may continue the behavior but likely would prefer not to since few people want to feel like a total ******.
Thanks Crossfox
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Originally Posted by Mrbeagle
Thanks for this CrossFox, I got here in the end
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Few boundaries, not good
I have to admit that I truly have very few boundaries and my adult alcoholic child takes full advantage of this and I don't want this anymore. I need to learn how to set boundaries...
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