Sapling

Amen...Here are a couple suggestions for you. Attend the next business meeting of your group and bring up the idea that at the end of your meeting the chair says something like this.

We will close the meeting with the Lord's Prayer..Or your own prayer to be said silently.

Or...You can do like one guy in my homegroup does. He goes out and has a smoke right when it's about to start...Then he hangs around after the meeting and shoots the bull with everyone else. Nobody questions that....Nobody cares....The guy hasn't had a drink in 18 years. I've found in my short time in AA....It tends to work with an open mind....If you want to look for reasons it won't work for you?...I'm sure you could find a ton of them.

MIRecovery

My orgininal sponsor does not say the Lords prayer or hold hands and is very anti-Christian yet he has been sober for 36 years and the world is likely ending if he is not at a meeting. Some people think that it is rude but that is their problem not his. It is a higher power of your choice not anyone else's.

My non-christian buddies treat the Lords prayer as a generic prayer that is not associated with Christianity. There is nothing in the prayer that they disagree with and so they like to be part of the group.

Threshold

I guess you can say I "pray" to myself

the serenity prayer, sans the "God" word can be me reminding myself of something I know is a higher truth than the one I often put into practice.

Same thing with these that I use daily

"help me to not put anything into my body or mind that you would not have there, take all of my relationships and do with them what you will, help me see the truth."

I can say that to myself...and make myself responsible for following through.

that's what works for me

soberlicious

Reasearch the suggestions listed in this thread. Secular connections area has a wealth of info.
probably

I'm a nontheist, but religious things don't necessarily make me bristle. I was at a funeral last week of a man I have known and loved since I was a little girl. He was very religious. When we sang "How great thou Art" I belted it out at the top of my lungs. It was a favorite hymn of his. I sang because it felt good. No more, no less.

People have often given me religious trinkets or said "you are in my prayers" during difficult times. I never take offense. I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the power of human kindness...one hand to another. I even display a few of these trinkets in my home. People think that's funny since I'm not a believer, but it's the intention in which it was given that means something to me, not the "thing", if that makes sense.

I think that rituals like the Lord's Prayer bring people a lot of comfort. Things like that are also intended to reinforce a sense of community. Yeah, it's misguided in a way and does leave out nonchristians and nontheists, but the intent at meetings is to feel a sort of connectedness.

But, in the end...you have to decide how to deal with it...if at all.

ps you can quit drinking.

tomsteve

i am glad to read you feel you cant do this without the program. that is good.
there are many poeple in AA who have done the same thing. one common problem was their perception of a higher power.

Yes, we of agnostic temperament have had these thoughts and experiences. Let us make haste to reassure you. We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.
Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.

i am sure you can find a sposnor who has experience the same thing. bring up your concern as a topic at a meeting and listen. you just may find a sponsor to help.

We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable

Admiral

If the shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it, I've been sober for five months without a program. In the beginning I told myself that I was just making excuses and if I didn't use a program I would fail. Not only have I stayed sober, but I've doubled my longest stretch of sobriety.

What's so special about a program? It's not medicine, it's not some magical cure, it's just a set of ideas and morals that didn't originate in your own head. A lot of us drank for so long that we felt broken and couldn't find the solution within ourselves, a program or group can provide a different vantage point or fresh perspective on the problem, but it's not mandatory.

freshstart57

I cringe at faith based solutions to any physical problem, and my reason is not because I don't believe in God, but because I do believe in God. I already have a God Of My Understanding, thanks. He is not consistent with 12 step requirements for the HP job description and doesn't play well with others.

In the end, I have choice over my actions according to my beliefs, free will it's called. I can choose to drink, and I can choose not to drink, meaning it's OK if I don't. So that's what I do. I don't drink.

Disappointing that AA was still referred to here as 'The Program'. There are others, gosh darnit!!1!!! Most of alternative methods go to significant effort to say they are not faith based or 12 step programs, and there are some very good reasons for that.

Eunectes, please junk the notion that you have no alternative. You do. 75% of people dependent on alcohol quit without AA, and without any other program for that matter.

In the end, you just need to cut it out. Are you ready to make your plan for continuing to use alcohol?

soberlicious

Yes. It's not just atheists/agnostic that have a problem with the 12 model, but also many Christians. My Christian friends tell me there is no room for any other interpretation of God in their understanding of their faith. The idea that you can choose your own HP is extremely disconcerting for many Christians, and maybe other faiths as well. Interesting...

renaldo

The serenity prayer or any other prayer seem useless to me because it doesn't seem like there's a big man in the sky listening or a Santa Claus or a Tooth Fairy, but the sentiments expressed are good sense.

It was Captain Kirk who said, "there are a million things in this life that you can have and a million things that you can't."

So getting your knickers in a twist because life isn't the way you want it is counter productive. Wish I could follow my own advice.

instant

Can you change the fact that the serenity prayer exists?

Can you change the fact that many swear by it, and the notion it promotes?

Can you take steps to improve your own situation ?

Can you tell the difference between all of the things above?

In going through and understanding the above our own emotional state must be confronted and dealt with.

You have work to do! But it,s not where you are that counts, it's who you are and where you are going.

It is within you to succeed

soberlicious

Twisted knickers have caused me to trip and fall more than once.

andisa

Consider it the "Serenity Meditation." Leave out the opening word "God" and it's beautifully secular. I do the same with the Lord's Prayer and therein it makes perfect sense. Do nor say nor believe nothing, unless it makes sense to you.

renaldo

The 12 steps bug me too, but at least you get to choose your HP or say you have none at all. I don't go to AA currently, but I know I'm always welcome there regardless of whether I'm throwing two middle fingers in the air or agreeing with everything they're saying.

I was at a meeting which was full. I was sitting on the floor and some guy stormed out saying, "apparently some people are blocking the aisle!"

Someone followed him out saying, "he could die tonight."

And you know what? He ended up running a meeting. He was less alienated, and he didn't die that night.

I'm not recommending AA one way or another, I'm just saying:

"What a difference a day makes. Just 24 little hours."

Sapling

I can understand that you can quit on your own will power...but is it that bad that you cringe at faith based solutions?....I'm a life long alcoholic...I don't cringe at any solution.

mfanch

Oh man, all the god mumbo jumbo used to make my skin crawl. Then I learned that when I am disturbed, the problem is with me. I used my atheism as an excuse to keep using for years and years.

I am a non-theist and AA works for me just fine. There is nothing to figure out and I all I had to do is suspend disbelief long enough to seek help outside my "self" and presto, the compulsion to drink/use left me. That's all I need to know. My HP is who I call "not me".....

Good luck!

ru12

Those prayers are there because AA came from the decidedly Christian Oxford Group.

HereIAm321

I am staying sober on pure will power. The drink disgusts me, nauseates me to think of it. I know I'll die if I keep drinking. And I simply will NOT permit that to happen.
No way in flying hell.
So far it's working, and I've never felt so resolute about it in my LIFE.

mfanch

FYI not all groups use Christian prayers. In my homegroup, we circle up and say "Keep coming back, it works if you work it." No prayers. Each group is autonomous.

renaldo

The 12 steps involve a higher power, but if you just want to sit and listen and not do them, that seems to be OK too, depending on the meeting.

I've found people to be rather non accusative, because they've been to the same place and they know the score. Actually they want to help, not lay a guilt trip on you. Of course there are a few exceptions, but that's their problem.

At one meeting I've been to where everyone introduces themselves, one guy introduces himself as a raging alcoholic. I'm left wondering why he uses that terminology since it's been years since he drank. Can't you get rid of the rage, or are you still angry?

He approached me offering to be a sponsor and I thought, 'Man, I don't want what you've got. I don't know what you were like when you were drinking, but you're miserable sober.'

That's a rare exception though. Just anecdotal.

Another person said, "to my amazement, when I stopped drinking I stopped getting DUIs."

HereIAm321

Here's a long answer for ya:

Yesterday, at my 2nd AA meeting, the organizer asked us "Does anyone have a topic they'd like to discuss?"

Being the "brat" that I am , I immediately raised my hand and said "I have a topic. It's about the higher power step. As a pretty staunch atheist, I have a hard time giving up my struggle to.....anything, really. My dad told me that I can be my *own* higher power, but what does everyone else think?"

Following my question was the most respectful, democratic discussion. Most people there had come to believe in a god, but a couple other comments stuck out for me:

One guy said his best friend uses a "battery" as his higher power, in the sense that a battery is an ever present source of energy and power.

But what really hit home was when the same guy said "I don't think you CAN be your own higher power. I think your 'power' must be outside of yourself. You've been relying on yourself and you haven't been able to stop drinking, right? Once I looked outside of my own flawed self, I realized I needed an external motivator."

Now, he has come to believe in god. Which is fine, that's his private belief. And to be honest, if believing in a supernatural entity saves his life, as it has saved so many other lives in AA, then I SUPPORT that belief, no matter how much it, IMO, is bullsh*t.

So when it was finally my turn to speak again, I had decided what my higher power was going to be: Love. I explain it as follows:

The only way a person succeeds and thrives, mentally and 'spiritually,' is with support & giving & health & happiness. And those are all manifestations of what has always been my biggest motivator: Love. Love for myself, taking care of myself, respecting myself. Love for others around me, who push me and nurture me. In this world, there is love and there is hate. Hate, in whatever form, is what caused me to drink. Mourning the death of a parent, hating the world for "taking her away" at such a young age, hating myself for not being able to save her, hating other people who hate their parents and don't realize how lucky they are to still have them around, hate hate hate. Hating myself for my own faults and failures, hating others for how they mistreated me, hate hate hate.

Love is a force and concept outside of myself, but it is also something that is WITHIN myself. I am made of love. I was raised with love, I love the world with all its horrible flaws. I love learning, I love nature. I love being sober, I love being ALIVE. And, most importantly, I am (rediscovering) how much I really *do* love myself.

I'd rather err on the side of love & lightness, then hate & darkness.

So, my higher power is both outside myself but also within myself. Much like a religious person would say god is outside of them but also within them, I suppose.

But I know that to receive love, I have to give love. So I have started "meditating" (I'm too ADD to meditate!), on that higher power.

To allow love to touch me and change me. To give my addiction up to the power of love, and "pray" for guidance to come back to my best, healthiest Self. A Self that follows signs and suggestions of love and esteem and happiness.

I could say more, but I feel I'm already waxing too poetic. Either way,

I hope this helps.