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Therapist won't see me anymore, unless I get into a program

Old 12-27-2012, 12:13 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GWillikers View Post
Wait! Are you doing it now?? It noodles my brain up let a knot of spaghetti when I try to ponder these things! The sound of one hand clapping, trees in forests, ack!! I know it's supposed to clear your mind, but it just makes me start to obsess!

I try to think of the 'I' as the bigger 'I', to which we all belong. And I (little I) find that comforting. But that's not to say that I believe I should abandon my little vessel that navigates the big I just because it isn't the ALL of ALL. Isn't it important to be a whole and also a part simultaneously? Y'know, "to love someone else, you first have to learn to love yourself." That's an acknowledgement of the importance of 'self' within the bigger 'Self.'

During those brief periods of sobriety (or not being intoxicated, depending on the definition) I do feel like I am a part of something much larger, and taken care of in that respect. My flaws are part of a larger benevolence, and my obsession over "fixing" everything loosens up a bit. Then, when I'm using, I lose that connection, try to take the "feel-good" reigns into my own hands, surge chemicals into my brain in disregard of all for which I should be grateful that is provided in the greater Self, based on an obsession with making my self more comfortable.

Does any of that make sense? I really do appreciate the ability to be grateful when I'm sober. And it's almost impossible while I'm f'd up.
Everything you say makes perfect sense to me. I can't envision you smoking crack. You certainly don't sound like someone who would go that route.

For me, it doesn't matter whether I'm drinking or not. I can't feel a benevolent presence other than from my fellow humans and animals. I don't feel anything with insects or the flora in my body that my white blood cells are killing without my consent. Trees are pretty, but they don't know you from a hole in the wall. I'm not saying that there's a malevolent presence or that this world "belongs to the Devil," I just can't sense anything but indifference in terms of any sort of entity running the show.

Everything seems so mysterious and elusive in terms of the grand construct. I'm OK with just leaving it a mystery and saying, 'I don't know. People have been trying to explain it for as long as people have existed. There are conflicting theories, and I'm OK with not buying into any particular one.'

I'm not an atheist, because that's too dogmatic.

Ram Dass said that God is playing hide and seek. Make of that what you will.

All of this stuff aside, you are very articulate, and the thought of you resorting to crack is something I hope you can avoid. I tried meth twice and I could see it was a dead end street. I had withdrawals both times, even though the second time I only took one puff. I couldn't sleep to save my soul.

I had an Afghani friend who tried it, and in his thick accent, he said, "you feel so good that even if you die you don't care."

I was really surprised with meth. I thought it was going to be "speedy" but instead I was totally relaxed and sociable. The comedown was horrible though. I would sell my mother into prostitution to be rid of that feeling.

I like your handle by the way.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:38 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Venting and listing all the reasons we "can't" do this or that for recovery, and having others here challenge that is often very useful for ourselves and others who lurk. It helps us get honest. So fire away if that's what you need to do.

as long as you are not encouraging anyone else to use, or shooting down what is working for them, it's fine to come here with your baggage and get some help sorting it out.

From your posts here, it sounds like NA may be a better fit for you. I had a host of substance abuse issues as well as process addictions (behavioral...sex...food...hoarding) and NA focuses on the disease of addiction irregardless of how it manifests in a person's life. I found that it was easier for me to identify with the other there than at AA, but do whatever works for you and whichever you are more able to connect to.

Money, living situation, job, etc. All real factors and of course we have to consider then, but when our life is on the line...and it really is. When our life is on the line what does losing some of those other things amount to? It's a question that each of us has to answer for themselves because for some of us losing one of those things would be enough for us to give up recovery...so it really IS a question we each have to ask ourselves. What are we willing to do to recover?

Many people object to 12 steps on the basis of now wanting to hand over anything to some amorphous "Higher Power"...it seems silly, like some strange magical thinking or whatever. YET...these are the same people who would hand over money to a stranger who we KNOW did not have our best interest in mind, to take some substance that may or may not be what we think it is, and injest that substance even though it might have killed us. YET...we balk with all manner of indignation at the idea of giving over one iota of control to something that might free us from our addiction. Just something to think about, because many of us say we are too logical, intelligent or in control of ourselves to do such a "silly" thing.

Your therapist sounds like she cares enough to be honest with you. There is nothing more therapy with her can give you if you aren't sober. She is freeing you to spend the time and money on the most critical issue.

It's a pretty recent development, as far as human history goes, that people/families are "independent", meaning that the fact that you are living with parents and getting material help from them isn't as horrible as many of us perceive it to be. It's how humanity operates on the whole. We're social animals, family units are the norm for humans.

Jobs? it's great to have one. Truth is any of us could lose ours in an instant, no matter how hard we work or how much we kiss up to some crazy boss. I don't recommend saying F you to a boss and walking out without a good reason, but a job IS intended to support our life and well being, and if we get to a point where we can't support our life or well being because of the job...then maybe the job has to be changed.

I don't know your situation but I know a lot of addicts who say "I cant quit or lose my job...it's my job.." even though they hate it, it stresses them out, they drink/use because of the stress and literally use half their income to drink/use...and are in debt up the wazoo because of it, yet they still doggedly claim they can't afford to quit.

We can quit our jobs/lose our jobs to go into treatment to save our lives, or we can keep our job today, to lose it tomorrow to addiction. Go into debt for recovery...or end up in debt from using (DUI's, accidents, using bill money to buy drugs, paying for damages)

I'm throwing these out there as food for thought. Like I said, I don't know anything really about your situation, but these are the sorts of things many of us addicts say and think.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:20 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Welcome to SR

Over the years I've proven to myself beyond doubt that trying to fill the emptiness within us by using drugs or alcohol is like pouring a wheel barrow of concrete into the Pacific ocean, it just never fills up.

Personally, recovery involves every aspect of my life, for every aspect was affected by my substance abuse. I simply could not be happy with who I was so I desperately tried to fill my inner void with any outside measure available. Many times we focus strictly on substance abuse, which is appropriate in the beginning of recovery, for we need to clear our minds of any foriegn substances to then see the areas of our lives that are lacking that which we try to find in alcohol or drugs. It's a daunting task, but we can help ourselves through the abyss by letting others help us. To me, going to a meeting is not all about the steps, or the program, for that turned me off in the beginning. What I had to learn and accept was that the meetings I went to were filled with people who were struggling with or learning to manage the same things I was struggling with. It's that common bond that helps us the most and keeps us in touch with our new found friends. I've never met many people in bars that would extend a hand and offer to help, but recovery involves just that, the shared assistance of all those we meet in meetings who just want to help us get better.

Each of us have our own crosses to bear, made worse by our attempts to escape reality, but engaging with those who have born those same crosses seems to make them much lighter and manageable. That's why a meeting tonight would be a great idea.

Just a thought, smoking crack just ain't that great of an idea, lol.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:52 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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GW, I hope you are still doing okay.

Threshold made a comment about family, and it relates to our inspirational reading this morning from Native Wisdom for White Minds*. It was about community, saying that Western cultures place too much emphasis on the nuclear family, and this results in "individuals who are not getting their needs met." Well, NA (or AA) will fill this void for you--it provides a recovery community.

GW, you should put as much time and effort into your recovery as you put into using and getting drunk. Let us know how you are doing.

Thanks!
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*by Anne Wilson Schaef, p. 363; New York: One World Ballantine Books, 1995.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:00 PM
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My eyes started welling up a bit when i read your posts this morning. The idea that so many of you are communicating directly to me, with my best interest in mind, and have useful, pertinent thoughts to share, is both heart warming and inspiring. Thank you, thank you.

I'm about to make the tough call to my previous sponsor. I think I'll speak from a perspective of looking for advice from him; I'm looking to give the program a wholehearted effort, and want his opinion as to whether he'd be a good candidate for sponsorship, or whether he thinks I should find someone new to try.

That may be a little too passive aggressive / not declaring what I want, but it's also a way for him to still be helpful, should he feel like rejecting me. I'll likely get his answering machine, so it probably won't matter. He's a cool guy. He's in that place where taking offense for someone else's actions just doesn't even happen to him anymore.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:41 PM
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Hi Gwillikers
Your thread has got some really great responses, got a lot myself from reading them. I especially liked what a threshold said about jobs.

I think you are an articulate thoughtful young man and I was glad to hear that you are going to contact your sponsor. I think you can do this. I don't find it difficult to imagine a year from now on a totally different path.
All the best
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:19 PM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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My sponsor replied with this text to me:

"Happy Holidays, or not - either way, survived, many did not. Blessings... Can you think of 5?, 10?, 20 things to be grateful for? Try writing them on a piece of paper. If you do that: try sharing your list w/ someone(s), if you'd like."

(I think I'll post it here later)

"As for working with, sure. You'd be helping me out. SUGGESTIONS:
1. Read from front cover through pg. 43,
2. Attend a mtg. a day for a week,
3a. Don't speak
b. Thank the speaker,
c. Shake hands, introduce yourself to someone.
d. Talk to a newcomer (gie 'em your ph. #)
e. Get someone's #

Do all this every day for a week (7 days in a row), then call me.
Peace,
T"

I think it was a great response! He's told me in the past that this is a program of action, and that passively attending meetings won't help me. So, here we go! I'm going to mix it up between AA and NA; I liked NA and know of a couple people who go to one near me that would be willing to give me a ride. I hope that's still meeting the conditions of the "suggestion".

(I've already got cravings, but not acting on them. I'm thinking of going to bed early to avoid the angst.... it's another form of escape, I know, but healthier than using.)
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:39 PM
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it looks to me like you have a shot at this thing.... Keep us posted!
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:54 PM
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The first ten on my Gratitude are a bit broad, but I think that's okay for now.

GWillikers Gratitude List
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark75 View Post
it looks to me like you have a shot at this thing.... Keep us posted!
It's "looked" like that before; the question is whether or not I will do the work. I procrastinate by nature, and have an uncanny ability to weasel out of doing anything I foresee as being "uncomfortable." But knowing that about myself isn't enough. As Bill said,

"Surely this was the answer -- self-knowledge. But it was not, for the frightful day came when I drank once more."

It's pretty scary to know that first-hand. One foot in front of the other ACTION is the only thing that's going to work; it's been the missing ingredient of all past "attempts."

Thanks for the encouragement! (I think I've got a good shot at it, too.)
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:15 PM
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Whoa, easy panther, lol.

The list your sponsor gave you seems perfect for you right now, so instead of thinking about past failures and the like, try thinking only about what you need to do today, then repeat the same tomorrow. That's how life is, one day at a time.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:17 PM
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Fortune cookies are funny. I'm not big on "signs", but they are what you make of them I guess,

"Now is the time for peace in your life. Go along with other's ideas."

Kinda spooky, right? In a good way, I mean.

(And yes, adding "in bed" always works)
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GWillikers View Post
In SF, in the Tenderloin, you literally do pick up crack at the corner store. The dealers are like attentive waiters in a restaurant. "Need anything? Can I get you anything? Yes? No? Okay, have a good night."
There are other neighborhoods like that, everywhere you go...including Miami.
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