Some Careers Do Not Tolerate Recovery
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 1,067
I was in a similar situation. Sales manager for a fortune 500 company... incredible stress and constant "shmoozing" as they say. "Lets close this deal so we can get to the club and celebrate!" Everyone I worked with was a heavy to problem drinker including our clients! I tried to balance it all. In the end it simply became unmanageable. While abusing alcohol on a regular basis I made very poor decisions on a regular basis and eventually they added up to me leaving that job. I struggled for quite some time after that to find sobriety and also a new career. I was full of fear and uncertain about my future. The one thing that I was however certain of is that I could not go on drinking. While abusing alcohol I could not even work the most simple of jobs. I ended up going into a completely different line of work and had to start from scratch, at a fraction of what I was being paid previously. It was shameful and embarrassing at times, especially early on. I had massive debts and no outs at all. Over time things have improved without alcohol in my life. The fear has been replaced with confidence and hope. I may never achieve the goals that I set forth in my earlier years but there is a new goal in my life now that is much more important than any of those previous goals. To be sober. Take care friend and god bless!
Recovered
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,129
My career did not support my recovery, so it had to go. My recovery comes first. I am doing something TOTALLY different as a result of putting my recovery first. I was told that whatever I put in front of my recovery I would lose. I didn't listen.....and oh boy did that saying come true for me. Sobriety is #1 and I do whatever it takes to keep it that way. Including totally changing careers.
Not Alone
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
I understand that everything you have said frustrates you Tesla but I think there are more employers out there who 'tolerate' someones recovery. Or at least here in the U.K they do due to certain employment rules. Coming into work under the influence of drink or a substance has always been gross misconduct at all of my old jobs. It looks like I may have just been really good at hiding it.
I find more individual people are not very tolerant of people in recovery. Several times, mainly in rehab (it was a working rehab, it was free and we worked for our board and lodgings) I was on a job and needed to use the toilet. I was landscaping so the majority of the time I could just use the garden but on the rare times I couldn't because the customers would see me I had to ask to go inside and use the toilet.
Some people think we are the lowest of the low. Like we are clean but still sick. These people are thankfully in the minority.
I find more individual people are not very tolerant of people in recovery. Several times, mainly in rehab (it was a working rehab, it was free and we worked for our board and lodgings) I was on a job and needed to use the toilet. I was landscaping so the majority of the time I could just use the garden but on the rare times I couldn't because the customers would see me I had to ask to go inside and use the toilet.
Some people think we are the lowest of the low. Like we are clean but still sick. These people are thankfully in the minority.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I'm not too sure if what my experience is will be relevant or useful to this discussion and the OP.
I am in one of those fields... and yea, they have a program for people who are found out to be actively alcoholic or addicted... boy, do they have a program... and they...mean...business... Which, is as it should be... Public Safety comes to mind. Like you mentioned... pilots, law enforcement, health care, drivers... all that... And you bet, surveillance, LOLOLOL... OMG, there is an entire industry built around screening for drugs and alcohol, not to mention, rehabs, out patient programs, peer support and accountability... it's impressive, breath taking as a matter of fact.
While this may seem punitive, and I believe that there is some reason to think that, depending on the situation, it may indeed have some measure of punitive effect and motive... if not punitive, certainly political... remember, pilots, nurses, doctors, lawyers are all licensed by some political body, state and/or federal... Law Enforcement and Public Safety employees are also accountable to the public in a very direct way. But these programs they have in place and all are meant to protect you, not the alcoholic or addict... while allowing the individual a chance to recover and continue in their career...
An attitude of gratitude, I think, allows me to avoid resentment... I still have my career... yea, some of what I had to do, some of the hoops I have had to jump through, seem somewhat random and seemingly unfair... others that did worse, have had less restrictions placed... and... some who did less... have had more, much more, consequences and restrictions than what I experienced...
It is what it is... LOL. Boy I hate that phrase, I heard it all the time in treatment... but, well, it is, what it is.
As far as this idea that we experience some kind of discrimination or unfair bias by the people in suits, in glass office buildings around boardroom tables... well, I have experienced that as well... And it has had some effect on my ability to be as successful as I think I want to be...
But what they think of me is way outside my control. What they think of me is none of my business. If I make it my business, I get restless, irritable and discontent... So I have to turn my back on all that and just go to work and do the best job I can... And it's working, I just got a raise, of sorts, and a very nice compliment from one of those guys in a suit.
I remember when I was in treatment, and I was worried about all that... my credibility, mostly. I mentioned that to the Medical Director of the facility. He told that the antidote was...
Integrity.
I am in one of those fields... and yea, they have a program for people who are found out to be actively alcoholic or addicted... boy, do they have a program... and they...mean...business... Which, is as it should be... Public Safety comes to mind. Like you mentioned... pilots, law enforcement, health care, drivers... all that... And you bet, surveillance, LOLOLOL... OMG, there is an entire industry built around screening for drugs and alcohol, not to mention, rehabs, out patient programs, peer support and accountability... it's impressive, breath taking as a matter of fact.
While this may seem punitive, and I believe that there is some reason to think that, depending on the situation, it may indeed have some measure of punitive effect and motive... if not punitive, certainly political... remember, pilots, nurses, doctors, lawyers are all licensed by some political body, state and/or federal... Law Enforcement and Public Safety employees are also accountable to the public in a very direct way. But these programs they have in place and all are meant to protect you, not the alcoholic or addict... while allowing the individual a chance to recover and continue in their career...
An attitude of gratitude, I think, allows me to avoid resentment... I still have my career... yea, some of what I had to do, some of the hoops I have had to jump through, seem somewhat random and seemingly unfair... others that did worse, have had less restrictions placed... and... some who did less... have had more, much more, consequences and restrictions than what I experienced...
It is what it is... LOL. Boy I hate that phrase, I heard it all the time in treatment... but, well, it is, what it is.
As far as this idea that we experience some kind of discrimination or unfair bias by the people in suits, in glass office buildings around boardroom tables... well, I have experienced that as well... And it has had some effect on my ability to be as successful as I think I want to be...
But what they think of me is way outside my control. What they think of me is none of my business. If I make it my business, I get restless, irritable and discontent... So I have to turn my back on all that and just go to work and do the best job I can... And it's working, I just got a raise, of sorts, and a very nice compliment from one of those guys in a suit.
I remember when I was in treatment, and I was worried about all that... my credibility, mostly. I mentioned that to the Medical Director of the facility. He told that the antidote was...
Integrity.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by mfanch 
My career did not support my recovery, so it had to go. My recovery comes first. I am doing something TOTALLY different as a result of putting my recovery first. I was told that whatever I put in front of my recovery I would lose. I didn't listen.....and oh boy did that saying come true for me. Sobriety is #1 and I do whatever it takes to keep it that way. Including totally changing careers.
I have a mortgage, a job that gives me benefits, a full pension and 6 weeks of vacation a year....it's stressful, but it would be MORE stressful to not be able to make ends meet.
it's all very fine and good to put your recovery front and center, but I would be more miserable if I failed at my career, lost my pension, insurance, benefits and lifestyle.
I consider my job and career part of ME...why should I lose that? isn't it better to cope with it and move ahead?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 384
Hi Tesla
Everyone faces challenges and I have seen this one too but not at a board room level but I think being judged by our peers can be uncomfortable.
In my case , my denial of a problem was ludicrous as it was obvious and I probably gained some respect by owning up to the problem. I do expect people will be observant of me and I will be thankful that they are as if I stray from my program of recovery I will soon be far worse off than I was before.
Through my recovery program I began to stop worrying about what other people thought or said about me and focused on how I could be better with myself and in my case , my HP. If I am excluded from some group or clique I always have one that I know I am welcome in. I have never worked in a place that did not have division within the employees so I look for no Utopia there. As long as I know I have done my job with dedication , care and honesty to the best of my ability then that's all I can do and the rest I am powerless over. I can't make people change their mind or do anything else , I can only change how it affects me.
Good luck
Everyone faces challenges and I have seen this one too but not at a board room level but I think being judged by our peers can be uncomfortable.
In my case , my denial of a problem was ludicrous as it was obvious and I probably gained some respect by owning up to the problem. I do expect people will be observant of me and I will be thankful that they are as if I stray from my program of recovery I will soon be far worse off than I was before.
Through my recovery program I began to stop worrying about what other people thought or said about me and focused on how I could be better with myself and in my case , my HP. If I am excluded from some group or clique I always have one that I know I am welcome in. I have never worked in a place that did not have division within the employees so I look for no Utopia there. As long as I know I have done my job with dedication , care and honesty to the best of my ability then that's all I can do and the rest I am powerless over. I can't make people change their mind or do anything else , I can only change how it affects me.
Good luck
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by Fandy
How do you support yourself and pay the bills, provide for your family?
I have a mortgage, a job that gives me benefits, a full pension and 6 weeks of vacation a year....it's stressful, but it would be MORE stressful to not be able to make ends meet.
it's all very fine and good to put your recovery front and center, but I would be more miserable if I failed at my career, lost my pension, insurance, benefits and lifestyle.
I consider my job and career part of ME...why should I lose that? isn't it better to cope with it and move ahead?
I have a mortgage, a job that gives me benefits, a full pension and 6 weeks of vacation a year....it's stressful, but it would be MORE stressful to not be able to make ends meet.
it's all very fine and good to put your recovery front and center, but I would be more miserable if I failed at my career, lost my pension, insurance, benefits and lifestyle.
I consider my job and career part of ME...why should I lose that? isn't it better to cope with it and move ahead?
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 590
Tesla, you are not alone. Addiction does not discriminate and you can bet that it affects plenty of "board room professionals". I suspect that in most cases, they either learn to deal with it or they eventually end up at the same place as anyone with an untreated active addiction.
I can't claim to have been in the "board room", but I certainly was in a managment and leadership role in a well respected corporation. I realize situations are different but in my experience, being sober and abstaining from drinking was easily turned into another opportunity to show leadership. I honestly believe you can look someone in the eye and say, "I don't drink" in such a way that they may even start wondering if they shouldn't! Don't get me wrong, it isn't pride, or intimidation, or anything other than expressing confidence that you are doing the right thing for you. They don't even need to know why. However, if they ask, and if you do not want to discuss alcoholism then it can be because of your dedication to health, your example, your lack of need for it, your commitment to clear-headed decisions, or any other reason that is still true.
Letting folks know that I didn't drink was not the challenge for me. I am sorry to admit that my challenge was sticking to it! I did see a well respected department head do it though. I had known him for years and did not realize he was a recovering alcoholic. He told me only as we were discussing the death of my alcoholic brother. This man didn't "broadcast" the fact that he was an RA but he also did not hide from it. Regardless, nobody ever questioned his abilities or leadership. Quite the opposite.
Everyone's case is different, but I guess I am making a argument that it can be done and done well even in leadership positions. Don't let a job be an excuse. Instead turn it into an opportunity and an example to others.
I can't claim to have been in the "board room", but I certainly was in a managment and leadership role in a well respected corporation. I realize situations are different but in my experience, being sober and abstaining from drinking was easily turned into another opportunity to show leadership. I honestly believe you can look someone in the eye and say, "I don't drink" in such a way that they may even start wondering if they shouldn't! Don't get me wrong, it isn't pride, or intimidation, or anything other than expressing confidence that you are doing the right thing for you. They don't even need to know why. However, if they ask, and if you do not want to discuss alcoholism then it can be because of your dedication to health, your example, your lack of need for it, your commitment to clear-headed decisions, or any other reason that is still true.
Letting folks know that I didn't drink was not the challenge for me. I am sorry to admit that my challenge was sticking to it! I did see a well respected department head do it though. I had known him for years and did not realize he was a recovering alcoholic. He told me only as we were discussing the death of my alcoholic brother. This man didn't "broadcast" the fact that he was an RA but he also did not hide from it. Regardless, nobody ever questioned his abilities or leadership. Quite the opposite.
Everyone's case is different, but I guess I am making a argument that it can be done and done well even in leadership positions. Don't let a job be an excuse. Instead turn it into an opportunity and an example to others.
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
I keep reading these post that say we should let battling alcoholism deter us from our professions.'"Put sobriety first." How about put paying my bills and all the years I've dedicated to becoming a professional? When people pretend like sobriety can usurp all other important thing in life, it becomes ridiculous. Sobriety is important. So is eating.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,432
well...I know if I hadn't put my recovery first, I'd be dead.
That doesn't put food on the table either.
Obviously everyone's priorities and circumstances are different - I'm not going to pontificate and I'm not going to tell a breadwinner to put their family on the poverty line.
I did change careers tho, take less money, gain more peace of mind and live., so I'm not talking about something I haven't done myself.
I think one thing is the same, no matter who you are...whatever you put ahead of your recovery you risk losing anyway.
You get out of your recovery what you put into it.
if your effort is an afterthought, chances are your recovery will be too....
I've been there.
In the end, there are many people here who stayed in their careers and got & stayed sober.
Ask them how they did it
D
That doesn't put food on the table either.
Obviously everyone's priorities and circumstances are different - I'm not going to pontificate and I'm not going to tell a breadwinner to put their family on the poverty line.
I did change careers tho, take less money, gain more peace of mind and live., so I'm not talking about something I haven't done myself.
I think one thing is the same, no matter who you are...whatever you put ahead of your recovery you risk losing anyway.
You get out of your recovery what you put into it.
if your effort is an afterthought, chances are your recovery will be too....
I've been there.
In the end, there are many people here who stayed in their careers and got & stayed sober.
Ask them how they did it
D
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
I could just be extra surely today, but this whole discussions summarizes why I didn't identify as an alcoholic until now. It's impractical to make alcoholism your identity. I have a problem with alcohol. Got it. I also spent 8 years becoming a professional. I am many other things besides an alcoholic. Anyone who says that your livelihood should come second to anything is insane and destructive. Take care of your sobriety. Take care of the rest of your life too.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
There is no one right answer here, obviously.
To tell an alcoholic who is hanging on by the last thread and whose life is in significant peril from alcoholism.... to put anything, anything, before his or her recovery... is irresponsible and is signing their death warrant.
To those professionals whose sobriety is essential to do the type of job they should be doing, to put anything, anything before sobriety is not only irresponsible to the alcoholic but to all those whose lives and safety depend on them to do their job unimpaired...
I would suggest that all of us speak only from our own experience.
To tell an alcoholic who is hanging on by the last thread and whose life is in significant peril from alcoholism.... to put anything, anything, before his or her recovery... is irresponsible and is signing their death warrant.
To those professionals whose sobriety is essential to do the type of job they should be doing, to put anything, anything before sobriety is not only irresponsible to the alcoholic but to all those whose lives and safety depend on them to do their job unimpaired...
I would suggest that all of us speak only from our own experience.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
There is a lot of the addictive "all-or-nothing" thinking going on here. Having trouble with one's present job is not the same as sacrificing a career. Surely there is more than one job out there for a professional. Having to cut back on expenses or have other family members contribute more is not some grand failure. What would you all do if your employers (or business) went under? Would that be equally tragic?
Rather than blaming sobriety and recovery for these problems and feelings of failure, it would probably help to recognize that it is your own drinking that caused all this turmoil. Taking responsibility for your own actions is painful, but trust me, it will ultimately be liberating.
The changes in your life that you have to make on the path to recovery are ultimately a lot less disruptive than the ones that would be made for you if you continued drinking.
Rather than blaming sobriety and recovery for these problems and feelings of failure, it would probably help to recognize that it is your own drinking that caused all this turmoil. Taking responsibility for your own actions is painful, but trust me, it will ultimately be liberating.
The changes in your life that you have to make on the path to recovery are ultimately a lot less disruptive than the ones that would be made for you if you continued drinking.
Sober since October
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: In the world in my eyes...Somewhere I've never been before...
Posts: 7,355
Originally Posted by dogmamma
we should let battling alcoholism deter us from our professions.'"Put sobriety first." How about put paying my bills and all the years I've dedicated to becoming a professional? When people pretend like sobriety can usurp all other important thing in life, it becomes ridiculous. Sobriety is important. So is eating.
It is sobriety and hard work that makes us professionals, not a bottle of wine.
It is drinking that usurps our lives, demanding all our attention like a spoiled child. It forces us to sacrifice our health, time, thinking skills, future, and, eventually, our lives.
Like bewitched by some malign forces we look at the world through the prism of "alcofog" where the friends become enemies and vice versa.
We live in a mad, sometimes cruel world, no doubt. But it is still making more sense to fight than to willingly surrender to obstacles and problems that come our way and kill ourselves with alcohol.
Take care and have a good day.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
The biggest change I had to make was my attitude. Everything else sorta fell into place after that. Rehab helped with making the attitude change. Getting therapy for my other issues helped a lot more when the alcohol was removed.
Love from Lenina
Love from Lenina
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by MidnightBlue
Dogmamma, IMHO, it is not sobriety that defers us from our professions, but the other way round. In all my career I only missed the deadline once, and it was because I had terrible hungover (luckily, I had a very good track record with that client, which I had earned being sober, and there was not big deal).
It is sobriety and hard work that makes us professionals, not a bottle of wine.
It is drinking that usurps our lives, demanding all our attention like a spoiled child. It forces us to sacrifice our health, time, thinking skills, future, and, eventually, our lives.
Like bewitched by some malign forces we look at the world through the prism of "alcofog" where the friends become enemies and vice versa.
We live in a mad, sometimes cruel world, no doubt. But it is still making more sense to fight than to willingly surrender to obstacles and problems that come our way and kill ourselves with alcohol.
Take care and have a good day.
It is sobriety and hard work that makes us professionals, not a bottle of wine.
It is drinking that usurps our lives, demanding all our attention like a spoiled child. It forces us to sacrifice our health, time, thinking skills, future, and, eventually, our lives.
Like bewitched by some malign forces we look at the world through the prism of "alcofog" where the friends become enemies and vice versa.
We live in a mad, sometimes cruel world, no doubt. But it is still making more sense to fight than to willingly surrender to obstacles and problems that come our way and kill ourselves with alcohol.
Take care and have a good day.
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