dredg

Hello,

I have been a heavy drinker for 15 years. Last summer I decided that I needed to look into recovery groups to help me quit. I went to AA for a month and stopped going. I later became part of a general outpatient program which involved group therapy and one on one counseling. I learned a lot about why I am a drinker and where it originated for me. The one on one counseling helped me the most. Group was annoying to me and I really didn't get much from it.

I was, however, disappointed in the constant "push" for a higher power to become sober. I quit AA and the general outpatient group after 90 days because this was what they said would keep me sober and everyone in group was relying on it. All of them have been in and out of programs, some as long as 14 years, relying on a higher power. I have since seen another addiction counselor and she believed in this concept as well so I stopped seeing her.

My question is; Why? The higher power concept, for me, is like chasing a ghost to help you get sober. How can you prove a higher power exists and why is this involved in addiction? If addiction is a disease then why not treat it like other diseases? You wouldn't hear a surgeon say "Pray away your heart disease, it's the only way". I know the whole argument of "make your higher power anything you want". I just don't get anything from it.

These counselors have doctorate and masters degrees. Why do they throw out fact based studies and proven methods and rely on "magic"? If I ever get help again I want to find a group that relies on proven methods not hocus pocus. It is really hard though because I live in city of only 70K people and resources are scarce. At least I haven't found anything within a 50 mile radius.

So far this has not been good. I stayed sober for 52 days and drank a six pack. Yes I screwed up but everyone in group harped on me for hours about it. This just made me want to drink more and I did. They said I need to pray more to my higher power and my spirit is dead so this is why I drink. WTF? What spirit? Why can't science be involved here? When they can pull my spirit out of my body and say here you go, it's not a series of synapses and neurotransmitters in your brain. It's a spirit! Shake its hand! I’ll believe then.

Sorry, a bit of a rant. I hope I didn't discourage others I am just wondering if anyone out there has found other means of becoming sober. I am very interested. Thanks

nobshere

Hey dredg..I have absolutely found another way to get sober without having to abandon my core beliefs. I simply stopped consuming alcohol. I know it is an odd concept but it, without question, works 100% of the time. I found exercise to be paramount..I had spent so long abusing myself that my body responded extremely well. I also started to eat again..something I had neglected for booze. Unfortunately this is the newcomers section and I can't elaborate on my opinion of "higher powers" but suffice it to say that there is no need to contort yourself so. Sobriety is an inside job..its in your hands..

hypochondriac

I'm pretty sure only AA requires a higher power, it's just a lot of people use AA and it has infiltrated a lot of outpatient programs as well.

I think alcoholism is a bit like depression, there's not one thing which will help everyone, you need to find what will work for you.

I love CBT approaches to alcoholism, it works better in my head than the emotional approach to it. I have some links to stuff like that if you're interested PM me x Have you looked into AVRT or SMART?

Sobersunshine

Good morning! I had the same HP issues as you, but guess what? It's working for me. I can't explain it and it makes no sense to me. I am a very logical person, with a science background, yet my HP is now in my life, working small miracles every day. I generally think of myself as a lapsed catholic non-practicing atheist.lol.

Btw, I'm new to recovery, about a month and a half.

Having said that, I'm not in any way trying to convince you to go that route. Just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from.

Having you checked out the secular forums? I know there are lots of other paths to sobriety that don't involve an HP. Smart recovery etc. others who know more about them can comment, hopefully. Despite my love for AA, I plan to check out a non-HP based program as well. I want as many tools in my sobriety tool box as possible. Other tools include meditation (which doesn't require an HP), sr, focusing on my health through diet and exercise, and journaling.

One thing I really do like about AA (not promoting AA to you, just telling my story) is meeting happy, sober people. I spent the afternoon yesterday with a girl from AA drinking tea and shopping. It was awesome. We talked about recovery and a bunch of other girly things. Perhaps you can find such people through a face to face non-HP group, for support and friendship.

It is too bad the professionals you are trying to gt help from are pushing something on you which you do not want. I'm no expert, but I know that many people have quit without an HP. Just look around this forum. It's not the only way.

My thoughts on the HP is that it is a way for me to get outside myself and my head. By asking my HP for direction and guidance each day, I'm opening myself to new possibilities, instead of sitting in the rut I've been in for twenty years. Like I said, it's working for me, but for sure it's not for everyone, which is why there are other programs out there.

I think smart recovery has face to face meetings. (could be wrong here, but there are secular groups that do). Maybe you could contact them and talk to some people there who could recommend a counsellor that won't force an HP on you.

I'm sure others will post helpful info. Good luck to you!

Sobersunshine

Hi, just wanted to add that I live near a city similar in size to yours and there are weekly SMART recovery meetings there. Maybe your city has meetings as well? I plan to check the meetings out once I finish my 90 AA meetings in 90 days. Not sure how AA folks will react, but I think I'll just keep it to myself. The scientist in me is curious!

renaldo

Oh, horror of horrors! You drank a six-pack! And people gave you grief for hours about it?

When I sort out whatever financial assistance I can get, I am going to go to detox and rehab. I'm facing the same thing with regards to the higher power. I squint and squint but I just can't feel it and it dredges up my Southern Baptist upbringing. In that mindset there is only one way and one way only.

I still have to investigate the rehab place that has been recommended for no income folks like me, but I'll be willing to bet they rely on AA. The free clinic that recommended them gave me a flyer for AA meetings and offered no other alternative.

I have been to lot of many AA meetings and the people are really nice and loving. I feel a lot of belongingness, but there still seems to be a lot of sucking on the teat of dependency of a higher power that I can't even sense intuitively, much less rationally. I have been to a Smart Recovery meeting in my area which was different, but it no longer meets here.

You can poke around on this website or you can just Google the alternatives to AA: Rational Recovery, Smart Recovery, LifeRing, S.O.S. and others. I don't think any of them do the higher power thing.

Even if I can do rehab with one of these secular programs, there's still going to be a lot of repetition, but I do need some outside help to do this thing. I'm getting tired of the merry-go-round. It's not so merry after all.

I long for the day when I don't have to think about this stuff anymore, but perhaps I will have to think about it and remain vigilant for the rest of my life, lest I fall back into 35 year old habits and end up in the hospital again.

I didn't land in the hospital this time, but if I keep going I probably will.

I don't expect anyone to prove a higher power to me empirically, but I can't even feel it. I can feel the injustice of natural disasters that kill thousands of people indiscriminately to the core of my being, but not a benevolent higher power - just the hand of kindness of my fellow human beings. That I can feel.

Good luck to both of us.

NatalieN

"WTF? What spirit? Why can't science be involved here? When they can pull my spirit out of my body and say here you go, it's not a series of synapses and neurotransmitters in your brain. It's a spirit! Shake its hand! I’ll believe then."

Dredg you are one funny guy. Thanks for the humor. I needed a good laugh this morning. I relate to the way you feel as I have struggled with the same issues. There is a young hip neuroscientist named Sam Harris that has helped answer a lot of my existential questions. Check him out on YouTube.

There are various recovery approaches explained in the secular section of this forum that do not require a belief in a supreme being. Some of us just don't have the capacity for this and to be told that there is no hope for us is wrong in so many levels.

Best wishes on this challenging but ultimately awesome journey and don't ever lose your sense of humor.

Natalie

Fandy

I pretty much use the power of common sense and gratitude.

it's a trade off...I can keep drinking, destroy my health, not have real sleep, and throw away $$, cause depression and look craptastic. OR I can stay healthy, sleep well, look 10 years younger and feel good.

I'm not agnostic and i'm not religious. I do believe in GRATITUDE and give thanks day and evening. I do my form of *meditation* as I now have sober mornings and a long walk with my dog...I connect with others almost every day. Isolating is not good for me.

Natom

I read a lot of books about the science and psychology behind addiction. I accept all of it. But I am still a member of a program that has the need for a higher-power. It's not about God, it's not about a higher power. It's about having faith in something other than you. I personally believe in a God. He hasn't got white hair and he doesn't wear white robes. He looks after me and he cares for me and he keeps me clean and sober.

freshstart57

Hi, Dredg, I'll give you the quick version. Yep, only 12 step recovery models incorporate a higher being into the plan, the others teach you how to do it yourself. Most people get sober without any program at all, AA or otherwise. There are many secular approaches to sobriety, and there is a SR forum just for them and evidence based alternatives to 12 steps and higher powers. See you in the secular forum soon.

miamifella

The higher power thing is pretty much a 12-step thing, but others have taken it on. I suspect your counselors are advocating 12-step recovery for you.

I think the principle behind the higher power thing is to connect the addict with something larger than oneself. I do think have a connection to something bigger--art, family, world peace, etc.--makes it easier to decide not to use or drink when the cravings hit. I do not have a "higher power" but I have many larger things that are too important to me to let myself sink again.

lilac0721

dredg, thanks for starting this thread. I have many of the same questions as you and am usually afraid to ask them.

Mark75

That is a great question, and if you are seeking wisdom and understanding rather than just challenging the idea... it is an awesome question!!!

I really believe that we, people who have become addicted, need a way to remove ourselves, our addict self, the perceived need to drink or drug... whether we see that as our addict voice, beast, hole in our soul... We need to find a way to walk away from all of those lies we tell ourselves... that we need to drink to be happy, that if only I could find one more pill, somewhere... the justification, rationalization, excuses, whatever... that deep discomfort, irritability, the restlessness that we feel, that it will all be palliated with something, anything, a drink, a pill... and the long term worries, how will I ever be happy again if I can't continue this lifestyle (even though it's killing me), or that nothing will be fun anymore.

For some, and it was the case for me, bringing a higher power into my life allowed me to detach from all of that, those warped ideas and perceived needs. That if I just put all of that aside and begin a spiritual journey and trust that I will be happy and have my needs met, and sober.

My higher power does not make me quit drinking. I did that. He will also let me drink if I decide to.

Not all recovery programs are spiritual. AVRT is decidedly not spiritual, but they address the need to detach from the voice that tell us those lies... I will, however let my AVRT friends here at SR present that in greater detail.

Great question! Welcome to SR.

tomsteve

you already have a power greater than you working in your life. it is alcohol.

my question is have you used the fact based studies and proven methods?

science is great stuf. has it worked for you? if it has, then keep doin it. if it hasnt, then do something diferent.

there was nobody in group that made you want to drink. it was you that did that. yer gonna have to take responsibilty for your recovery.

there is a chance that yer upset with everyone else beause there is truth in what ya here. the problem yer having isnt with everyone else, its with the person in your mirror.

if you dont like the whole higher power thing, thats good. we of AA say it isnt for everyone and highly suggest finding something that works.when ya stop living in the problem and start living in the solution, the problem will go away.

onlythetruth

dredg:

Thanks for bringing up this topic. It's an important one and comes up quite a bit around here.

First, it's not really that "a lot of" recovery programs rely on a higher power: it's that the 12 step based ones (i.e., AA, NA) which use that philosophy have been around the longest and (at least in the US) have been adopted institutionally--so that it's still difficult in some areas to find treatment programs that aren't based on them.

Historically, this turned out to be a really bad thing for people who didn't find that the 12 step philosophy fit them. The situation is changing (which I'll talk about in a minute) but for a long time, those of us who didn't fit into 12 step literally had no place to turn. We were told we were hopeless; our questions were used as proof that we were "in denial" or didn't want to quit our addictions. This was still very much the situation when I quit drinking in the late 90s and it led to a years-long effort on my part to fit myself into the 12 step world, thinking there was something wrong with me.

But, thankfully, things have been changing. For a whole bunch of reasons--including the rise of evidence-based medicine, the rise of the internet and the increasingly vocal movement toward choice in recovery approaches--other approaches have become better known and it has become increasingly unacceptable for people who don't use "higher power" based approaches to get shouted down and denigrated.

The change has been extremely noticeable on this website, where there's been a wonderful opening up and sharing between and among people who use different approaches. It's not that the 12 step folks don't believe in their philosophy anymore, and it's not that the non-12-step folks have changed their minds, it's that we all recognize that one size does not fit all and have come to respect that different points of view are valid.

So, maybe your goal here should not be to further agonize over 12 step and why it isn't your thing...just find something that IS your thing. I've gravitated toward SMART Recovery, but there are also other non-faith-based support groups such as LifeRing, SOS and Women for Sobriety, and there's Rational Recovery which is not a support group but an approach. And there's nothing wrong with using a combination of approaches, or using SR for support. It's all about what works FOR YOU.

justhadenough

great post

sugarbear1

Rational Recovery, SMART, AVRT, Women for Recovery, LifeRing are some programs which I don't believe have a higher power....search them out!

dredg

I would love some links. I tried to send you a message but it stated that I need to have 5 posts. Thanks

Thepatman

The higher power they talk about is not external to you. IT is you inside you. That side YOU know exist, and know that it can accomplish ANYTHING once you put you mind to hit.

Zencat

I deal with addiction and mental illness on the secular level. I have explained myself to the therapist I have seen that I'm an atheist. At that point the HP talk gets completely shut down. I have yet to have a therapist press the HP issue beyond my request that there will be no HP talk in my sessions. So maybe exert your needs to be respected as a non-believer. It works for me.

I'm also an AA member that is heavy atheistic inclined. For me, the HP deal is understood in non-supernatural terms. If I don't stop drinking, there is no rescuing invisible gaseous invertebrate to save me...its my job to stay sober. I'm my own HP, its a sweet deal LOL.