Avoidance of slippery places/people.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 170
Avoidance of slippery places/people.
Hi all,
Can someone point me in the direction of the part of the Big Book that covers avoidance of slippery places, or is it not covered in the book and his mere common sense?
Thanks
Can someone point me in the direction of the part of the Big Book that covers avoidance of slippery places, or is it not covered in the book and his mere common sense?
Thanks
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 50
I don't have a big book but I think it's more of an acquired skill than common sense, certainly for us alcoholics. Really if I have to think if it's going to be a bad situation or if this person is a bad influence, at least for right now, I'm just skipping it.
My mind tends to play tricks on me.
My mind tends to play tricks on me.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 557
I don't remember any particular place in the BB where this exact issue is looked at, but think about it: If you were concerned about not wanting to see naked bodies, would you walk into a nudist colony?
Stands to reason, if I have a real problem with not being able to say no to the first drink, should I go to a place where drinks are being served? Should I hang out with people that are drinking, and telling me I should be drinking with them?
Stands to reason, if I have a real problem with not being able to say no to the first drink, should I go to a place where drinks are being served? Should I hang out with people that are drinking, and telling me I should be drinking with them?
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
This is on pages 100 through 102.
Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so.
We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. His only chance for sobriety would be some place like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything! Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory he would escape the alcohol problem.
In our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed.
So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't.
You will note that we made an important qualification. Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, "Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place? Or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious pleasure from the atmosphere of such places?" If you answer these questions satisfactorily, you need have no apprehension. Go or stay away, whichever seems best. But be sure you are on solid spiritual ground before you start and that your motive in going is thoroughly good. Do not think of what you will get out of the occasion. Think of what you can bring to it. But if you are shaky, you had better work with another alcoholic instead!
Why sit with a long face in places where there is drinking, sighing about the good old days. If it is a happy occasion, try to increase the pleasure of those there; if a business occasion, go and attend to your business enthusiastically. If you are with a person who wants to eat in a bar, by all means go along. Let your friends know they are not to change their habits on your account. At a proper time and place explain to all your friends why alcohol disagrees with you. If you do this thoroughly, few people will ask you to drink. While you were drinking, you were withdrawing from life little by little. Now you are getting back into the social life of this world. Don't start to withdraw again just because your friends drink liquor.
Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed.
Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so.
We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. His only chance for sobriety would be some place like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything! Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory he would escape the alcohol problem.
In our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed.
So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't.
You will note that we made an important qualification. Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, "Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place? Or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious pleasure from the atmosphere of such places?" If you answer these questions satisfactorily, you need have no apprehension. Go or stay away, whichever seems best. But be sure you are on solid spiritual ground before you start and that your motive in going is thoroughly good. Do not think of what you will get out of the occasion. Think of what you can bring to it. But if you are shaky, you had better work with another alcoholic instead!
Why sit with a long face in places where there is drinking, sighing about the good old days. If it is a happy occasion, try to increase the pleasure of those there; if a business occasion, go and attend to your business enthusiastically. If you are with a person who wants to eat in a bar, by all means go along. Let your friends know they are not to change their habits on your account. At a proper time and place explain to all your friends why alcohol disagrees with you. If you do this thoroughly, few people will ask you to drink. While you were drinking, you were withdrawing from life little by little. Now you are getting back into the social life of this world. Don't start to withdraw again just because your friends drink liquor.
Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 557
Sapling - I can't say that I can totally agree with you on this, although it's certainly true later in sobriety. I most definitely would not tell any newcomer that it's ok to go anywhere close to a drinking establishment.
The reason I start off going there, may indeed be legitimate, but the reason I stay may end up not being so. In the early days of sobriety, why throw out the gaunlet to the fickle finger of fate. Time enough after we've picked up some skills to stay sober.
The reason I start off going there, may indeed be legitimate, but the reason I stay may end up not being so. In the early days of sobriety, why throw out the gaunlet to the fickle finger of fate. Time enough after we've picked up some skills to stay sober.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by Sapling 
You will note that we made an important qualification. Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, "Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place? Or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious pleasure from the atmosphere of such places?" If you answer these questions satisfactorily, you need have no apprehension. Go or stay away, whichever seems best. But be sure you are on solid spiritual ground before you start and that your motive in going is thoroughly good. Do not think of what you will get out of the occasion. Think of what you can bring to it. But if you are shaky, you had better work with another alcoholic instead!
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 522
Dear thesun,
just sharing an experience with you that I had this morning...
I was waiting in the lounge of the Eurostar in London at 10h15am (morning, breakfast time...) and I hadn't eaten in the morning so went to where they sell sandwiches and croissants to see what they had. I wasn't thinking about alcohol. I was just hungry.
As I looked around to find a table to eat my croissant of emmental and tomatoes I couldn't believe how many people were already drinking - I mean beer and wine! At 10h15am in a public place. It was like being in the Twilight Zone ;> and for one second I thought, hmmmm, why not have a small white, everyone else is.
But I didn't.
I sat down with my croissant, laptop and patted myself on the shoulder :>
I bet this doesn't help - sorry
Take care
just sharing an experience with you that I had this morning...
I was waiting in the lounge of the Eurostar in London at 10h15am (morning, breakfast time...) and I hadn't eaten in the morning so went to where they sell sandwiches and croissants to see what they had. I wasn't thinking about alcohol. I was just hungry.
As I looked around to find a table to eat my croissant of emmental and tomatoes I couldn't believe how many people were already drinking - I mean beer and wine! At 10h15am in a public place. It was like being in the Twilight Zone ;> and for one second I thought, hmmmm, why not have a small white, everyone else is.
But I didn't.
I sat down with my croissant, laptop and patted myself on the shoulder :>
I bet this doesn't help - sorry
Take care
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,204
My hub does marathons and what kills me is after a run, a health event for god sake, everyone gets drunk at ten AM! I don't drink in public, ever, really, so it doesn't challenge me. But I can imagine its hard for many in recovery. Alcohol is truly pervasive.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
I avoided much contact with alcohol during the first few years of sobriety.
It paid off, I believe.
I made a bad judgment about going to a bar (for a band party) around 10 - 12 years ago and came close to having a no mental defense moment.
I learned from that experience without changing my sobriety date.
I was not spiritually fit when I went to it.
I come into contact with alcohol somewhat regularly (during work-related and social functions), but I am always wary and mindful of the fact that I am in the presence of something which is poison to me.
I have read pages 100 - 101 many times.
Take care and choose wisely.
It paid off, I believe.
I made a bad judgment about going to a bar (for a band party) around 10 - 12 years ago and came close to having a no mental defense moment.
I learned from that experience without changing my sobriety date.
I was not spiritually fit when I went to it.
I come into contact with alcohol somewhat regularly (during work-related and social functions), but I am always wary and mindful of the fact that I am in the presence of something which is poison to me.
I have read pages 100 - 101 many times.
Take care and choose wisely.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
Originally Posted by thesun
Hi all,
Can someone point me in the direction of the part of the Big Book that covers avoidance of slippery places, or is it not covered in the book and his mere common sense?
Thanks
Can someone point me in the direction of the part of the Big Book that covers avoidance of slippery places, or is it not covered in the book and his mere common sense?
Thanks
But I think that might have been born out of experience... I'm sure plenty of people (maybe everyone..) at some point tried to carry on with their normal lives and just not drink. I know I did and it didn't work.
And I am certain I know a few sober people who live vicariously in drinking places or by hanging out with drinkers!
But I like that the BB is rational about this and doesn't suggest that your sobriety is dependent on staying away from drinking establishments but rather that you do what you think is best for you.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Step 10 promises....I like these as much as the other ones.
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
bb pg 84 -85
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
bb pg 84 -85
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