Did Bill W ask for a drink on his death bed?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 138
Did Bill W ask for a drink on his death bed?
Someone told me this and I was wondering if anyone knew the source. If it is true, it is very frightening. Will we always secretly want to drink no matter how many years of sobriety we have? Is that why in the friends and family of alcoholics section it seems that every loved one is somewhat suspicious of relapse forever?
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
I don't know if he did or not. I don't think you are ever cured from this....If I'm on my death bed sober I don't really care what I ask for....Because I feel like I've already been on my death bed in the height of my alcoholism.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,145
You know what's funny... I sometimes think about this. I have never heard about Bill W's story and didn't know that there is a rumour that he asked for alcohol on his death bed. But sometimes I catch myself thinking "what if I found out I had 2 weeks to live (or whatever time period) would I drink again?"
I always end up at the same answer - that's my ADDICTION talking, not me. I don't want a drink, now or ever, and the only reason I have that thought is because my AV wants to keep the option of drinking open at some/any point in the future.
No way! I'm giving it no hope.
Try not think about or entertain any idea of ever drinking again, no matter what... it's not good for your sobriety.
Wishing you all the best x
I always end up at the same answer - that's my ADDICTION talking, not me. I don't want a drink, now or ever, and the only reason I have that thought is because my AV wants to keep the option of drinking open at some/any point in the future.
No way! I'm giving it no hope.
Try not think about or entertain any idea of ever drinking again, no matter what... it's not good for your sobriety.
Wishing you all the best x
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
Originally Posted by effortjoy 
Someone told me this and I was wondering if anyone knew the source. If it is true, it is very frightening. Will we always secretly want to drink no matter how many years of sobriety we have? Is that why in the friends and family of alcoholics section it seems that every loved one is somewhat suspicious of relapse forever?
What we have is a "daily reprieve".
I wouldn't say that we "secretly" want to drink but perhaps it's more like "subconsciously" we are inclined to drink.
Please Google and read AA's "How It Works" and "The Doctors Opinion". Don't put too much faith in "someone told me".
All the best.
Bob R
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by effortjoy
Someone told me this and I was wondering if anyone knew the source. If it is true, it is very frightening. Wi
ll we always secretly want to drink no matter how many years of sobriety we have? Is that why in the friends and family of alcoholics section it seems that every loved one is somewhat suspicious of relapse forever?
ll we always secretly want to drink no matter how many years of sobriety we have? Is that why in the friends and family of alcoholics section it seems that every loved one is somewhat suspicious of relapse forever?
former walking pharmacy
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Watertown, CT
Posts: 146
I believe it's entirely possible that he died screaming for alcohol, but I do NOT think that simply because he is a co founder of AA that he is a model for all others suffering from addiction (far from it, in fact).
There's always going to be that addiction inside you waiting to be reactivated (through a drink or a drug). It's part of your physiology, but that doesn't mean you have to listen. Ever.
There's always going to be that addiction inside you waiting to be reactivated (through a drink or a drug). It's part of your physiology, but that doesn't mean you have to listen. Ever.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 583
From my readings, listening to old timer from the original group I haven't come across that information. Anything is possible. The reality is HE (Bill) was a human. He had character issues to the end. I don't worship Bill but say thank you for being a founder of AA.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by effortjoy
Someone told me this and I was wondering if anyone knew the source. If it is true, it is very frightening. Will we always secretly want to drink no matter how many years of sobriety we have? Is that why in the friends and family of alcoholics section it seems that every loved one is somewhat suspicious of relapse forever?
Lets say it was true though. Even if it did happen, so what? So one person asked for a drink on his/her deathbed. I know a whooooooole lot more who died sober and didn't. Look at the majority of the people who get into AA, work the program, and stick with it - they die sober by and large.
My experience is that you absolutely CAN and WILL get free from the urge to drink. Matter of fact, it's one of the "promises" in AA - that you can get free from that urge.
If one of my friends or someone in my family is constantly worried about me relapsing, it's probably on them. We humans, some of us anyway, sometimes just like to worry. On the flip side, if everyone around me was worrying about me relapsing, it may be a good indication that I need to take a good hard look at how I'm living my life in sobriety. In my experience, when "everyone's" worried, there's usually something there that I need to look at.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by DayTrader
6yrs in AA and I haven't heard that other than from someone who's kinda new, heard it somewhere and thought they'd ask.
Lets say it was true though. Even if it did happen, so what? So one person asked for a drink on his/her deathbed. I know a whooooooole lot more who died sober and didn't. Look at the majority of the people who get into AA, work the program, and stick with it - they die sober by and large.
My experience is that you absolutely CAN and WILL get free from the urge to drink. Matter of fact, it's one of the "promises" in AA - that you can get free from that urge.
If one of my friends or someone in my family is constantly worried about me relapsing, it's probably on them. We humans, some of us anyway, sometimes just like to worry. On the flip side, if everyone around me was worrying about me relapsing, it may be a good indication that I need to take a good hard look at how I'm living my life in sobriety. In my experience, when "everyone's" worried, there's usually something there that I need to look at.
Lets say it was true though. Even if it did happen, so what? So one person asked for a drink on his/her deathbed. I know a whooooooole lot more who died sober and didn't. Look at the majority of the people who get into AA, work the program, and stick with it - they die sober by and large.
My experience is that you absolutely CAN and WILL get free from the urge to drink. Matter of fact, it's one of the "promises" in AA - that you can get free from that urge.
If one of my friends or someone in my family is constantly worried about me relapsing, it's probably on them. We humans, some of us anyway, sometimes just like to worry. On the flip side, if everyone around me was worrying about me relapsing, it may be a good indication that I need to take a good hard look at how I'm living my life in sobriety. In my experience, when "everyone's" worried, there's usually something there that I need to look at.
Amen!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,238
There is no gurantee that I will drink today, tomorrow
or yrs. from now. However, if I stay connected to my
AA teachings I have learned over the past 22 yrs. and
each minute of the day, then im pretty much sure I
won't drink. The moment I begin relying on my own
will or my own alcoholic thinking and disconnect from
my recovery life source then there is a greater possibility
I could drink.
I am responsible for my own recovery and If I want to
remain happy joyous and free from the desire to drink
today then I will continue on my path of recovery
passing on my own experiences, strengths and hopes
of what my life was like before, during and after
alcohol and with gratefullness and humbleness
continue accepting the rewards of the promises
given to us as stated in the Big Book Of AA.
or yrs. from now. However, if I stay connected to my
AA teachings I have learned over the past 22 yrs. and
each minute of the day, then im pretty much sure I
won't drink. The moment I begin relying on my own
will or my own alcoholic thinking and disconnect from
my recovery life source then there is a greater possibility
I could drink.
I am responsible for my own recovery and If I want to
remain happy joyous and free from the desire to drink
today then I will continue on my path of recovery
passing on my own experiences, strengths and hopes
of what my life was like before, during and after
alcohol and with gratefullness and humbleness
continue accepting the rewards of the promises
given to us as stated in the Big Book Of AA.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Is that why in the friends and family of alcoholics section it seems that every loved one is somewhat suspicious of relapse forever?
On James Dannenberg's log for December 25 -- Bill Wilson's last Christmas Day -- at six-ten in the morning, after a long night, the patient "asked for three shots of whiskey," Dannenberg noted. He also noted that Wilson was quite upset when he couldn't have what he asked for. There was no whiskey at Stepping Stones. A few days later he became belligerent and tried to punch the nurse. ...
On the seventh of January, Nurse Dannenberg noted that Bill had been visited by some family members and that after the visit he and Lois had an angry argument. The next morning Bill again asked him for whiskey. ...
By the fourteenth of January, Bill Wilson, a man who hadn't had a drink in almost thirty-seven years, a man who had discovered what is still the only successful way to treat alcoholism, was asking for whiskey again."
On the seventh of January, Nurse Dannenberg noted that Bill had been visited by some family members and that after the visit he and Lois had an angry argument. The next morning Bill again asked him for whiskey. ...
By the fourteenth of January, Bill Wilson, a man who hadn't had a drink in almost thirty-seven years, a man who had discovered what is still the only successful way to treat alcoholism, was asking for whiskey again."
My Name Is Bill: Bill Wilson, His Life and the Creation of Alcoholics Anonymous, Susan Cheever, pages 248-249.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
You know, I am not too bothered one way or another about this, what Bill W. did or did not do or say regarding whiskey when he was on his death bed. He was just a man, one who made a difference, but still, he was just a man... as imperfect as any of us. Whatever happened, it does not erase what he helped create.
What happens on my death bed is none of anybody's damn business, unless you are a loved one and by my side... The chances are good I won't be at my best... especially after "a long night".
Susan's book is supposed to be a very good one, I've heard her interviewed... It grew out of her interest in spirituality and her own experience with alcoholism, her father, I think. I should read it.
What happens on my death bed is none of anybody's damn business, unless you are a loved one and by my side... The chances are good I won't be at my best... especially after "a long night".
Susan's book is supposed to be a very good one, I've heard her interviewed... It grew out of her interest in spirituality and her own experience with alcoholism, her father, I think. I should read it.
Powerless over Alcohol
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trudging the Road to Happy Destiny!
Posts: 4,018
Dont know,,
I do know I attended a funeral of someone Monday that didnt. He took the 13 th step, and promised to keep a seat warm with the big boy's...
RIP RG.
I do know I attended a funeral of someone Monday that didnt. He took the 13 th step, and promised to keep a seat warm with the big boy's...
RIP RG.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,635
According to "My Name is Bill" by Susan Cheever, Bill W. did ask for whiskey. More than once. She cited his nurse as having said it. He also did LSD and cheated on Lois in sobriety according to this book.
But, like everyone has said, he was HUMAN. Although he founded the most awesome recovery program ever (in my opinion) he was just like us: alcoholic and human. It is tempting to hold him to a higher standard, but we really shouldn't.
But, like everyone has said, he was HUMAN. Although he founded the most awesome recovery program ever (in my opinion) he was just like us: alcoholic and human. It is tempting to hold him to a higher standard, but we really shouldn't.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 590
Here's a hypothetical scenario to ponder......
We are all imperfect people. He's done a lot more than me though and certainly helped a lot more people.
What if he did ask for alcohol, but what if he didn't actually pass away. Let's imagine that he goes to a meeting or comes onto SR afterwards admitting his struggle and lapse of judgement. How would you receive him? What would you say?
Speaking for myself, I certainly couldn't be casting any stones.We are all imperfect people. He's done a lot more than me though and certainly helped a lot more people.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
I have no idea whether it's true EJ - and I don't care - anymore than I would if I heard the same of the founders of Rational Recovery SMART or Lifering or another programme.
Programmes are not just one person and people are not their programmes.
I'm reading the biography of Warren Zevon right now - he went back to drinking after 20 years sobriety when he learned he was dying.
Personally, I think he made a bad choice, but geez, I understand it.
I'm trusting I'd have the wherewithal to make a better choice in a similar situation tho.
I want to go out this way - the drunken me died in 2007
and...mod hat on...let's not get into points scoring or programme bashing here guys.
D
Programmes are not just one person and people are not their programmes.
I'm reading the biography of Warren Zevon right now - he went back to drinking after 20 years sobriety when he learned he was dying.
Personally, I think he made a bad choice, but geez, I understand it.
I'm trusting I'd have the wherewithal to make a better choice in a similar situation tho.
I want to go out this way - the drunken me died in 2007
and...mod hat on...let's not get into points scoring or programme bashing here guys.
D
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