Please, AAs, Stop Pretending it's Simple...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,678
Welcome to SR Spencerhead 
You should read Rational Recovery, There's some good AA rants in there and it is aimed at people just like you who have found AA does not work for them
Hope you find what you're looking for x
You should read Rational Recovery, There's some good AA rants in there and it is aimed at people just like you who have found AA does not work for them
Hope you find what you're looking for x
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by hypochondriac 
Welcome to SR Spencerhead
You should read Rational Recovery, There's some good AA rants in there and it is aimed at people just like you who have found AA does not work for them
Hope you find what you're looking for x
You should read Rational Recovery, There's some good AA rants in there and it is aimed at people just like you who have found AA does not work for them
Hope you find what you're looking for x
Sober since Jan 1, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,583
Originally Posted by FlyerFan
Yeah, for my first month or two i stood in the circle and didnt say a word, i just stared at everyone else, lol. I was agnostic when I came in, but now Im happy to say I have a higher power so I do say it now, but nobody makes me and i certainly dont feel compelled to.
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by Lost3000
No argument wanted on the topic of HP, but with regard to the OP's post, I try to approach the prayer session respectfully -- by bowing my head. I have a higher power too - but it is not the Lord, and so I do not recite that prayer. ("...give us this day our daily bread..." --- does not jibe with the higher power of my choice).
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by onlythetruth
In my own experience...things got a lot simpler when I stopped trying to make sense of the whole HP thing, and accepted that the power to abstain from alcohol resides within me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vashon WA
Posts: 1,035
I feel that no matter what I take or leave from AA they have established a framework for quitting drinking that I have to acknowledge. Even though I have never spent one second at a meeting I take great comfort in knowing that they are there holding a light in the darkness of despair. They do good work and I am thankful to them for that.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by spencerhead
...That it's merely a matter of putting the plug in the jug, or to stop one's stinkin thinkin. Or going to meetings, and joining a home group and being of service and getting a sponsor and freaking praying and repeating slogans.
I know this might be of comfort to you, but it isn't to me. I have been doing all of these for eleven months (includding two 90 in nineties), to no avail. I have not discovered a higher power. The miracle hasn't happened.
It's not that simple. Were that the case, I doubt so many of us would relapse again and again and again and again. Yes, I "want what you have". I would love what you have.
Oh, yes, I know...I'm being resentful and angry. And both of these flaws will compel me to drink again. But then again, it's not my fault. It is my fault. It's a disease, and I am blameless. Or absolutely to blame. And full of remorse and regret. But never full of remorse or regret. On the other hand, I am selfish to the extreme, and am to blame. I should forget yesterday, and never focus on tomorrow, but I should always "remember when". I have to hit bottom. I don't have to hit bottom, because AA "raised the bottom". It isn't a religious program. It is. For some reason we have to say the Lord's Prayer, no matter what our own religious views or lack thereof might be.
Even if you didn't drink to begin with, this kind of doublespeak, contradictory, dumbed-down nonsense would tempt you, IMO.
I know this might be of comfort to you, but it isn't to me. I have been doing all of these for eleven months (includding two 90 in nineties), to no avail. I have not discovered a higher power. The miracle hasn't happened.
It's not that simple. Were that the case, I doubt so many of us would relapse again and again and again and again. Yes, I "want what you have". I would love what you have.
Oh, yes, I know...I'm being resentful and angry. And both of these flaws will compel me to drink again. But then again, it's not my fault. It is my fault. It's a disease, and I am blameless. Or absolutely to blame. And full of remorse and regret. But never full of remorse or regret. On the other hand, I am selfish to the extreme, and am to blame. I should forget yesterday, and never focus on tomorrow, but I should always "remember when". I have to hit bottom. I don't have to hit bottom, because AA "raised the bottom". It isn't a religious program. It is. For some reason we have to say the Lord's Prayer, no matter what our own religious views or lack thereof might be.
Even if you didn't drink to begin with, this kind of doublespeak, contradictory, dumbed-down nonsense would tempt you, IMO.
The only thing that has worked for me - and I tried everything - was getting to the point I really, honestly wanted to quit and a script for Antabuse. I set it in with the other medications I take (heart, BP, etc.) when I prep my next week of meds. I take it everyday without thinking. Done - can't drink for another 12 days. I don't even think about taking it anymore. It's simply one of my essential meds. When I get a craving I automatically think - nope, can't - and it goes away. Took forever to get to this point (where I would actually continue taking the Antabuse). I had to get to the point where the day after was horrible and lasted for 2 to 3 to 4 or more days of misery. This feels SOOooo much better!!!
Sober since Jan 1, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,583
Originally Posted by FlyerFan
See I felt like a total idiot when I came in, because I didn't even know the prayer. Lol. And my boyfriend (he went with me to my first open meeting because i was scared) just recited it like it was nothing and when I look at him after he says "what? my family is catholic......i learned that when I was 3" lmao it was just funny because I had never been to church a day in my life and had no idea what to say. :P
Sober since Jan 1, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,583
Originally Posted by FlyerFan
See it was the opposite for me. I feel like I don't have the power alone, I need the help of other people to do it.
Also, don't feel like a dork b/c you didn't know the lord's prayer. Not everyone grew up Catholic.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Spencerhead: With respect, what I'm hearing is that you desperately want a drink. That's completely normal for an alcoholic. So you focus on all the contradictions, all the faults in the program, and the program isn't perfect- that's for sure. But if you stick with it, or with some other program which involves people so that you're not just isolating yourself and assuming that you can do it all alone, then there's a good chance that it's going to work for you. A good chance. Not a certainty, since a big bunch of folks don't recover from this. Maybe it helps if you try to focus on the likelihood that when you feel all angry and resentful inside and focus on all the negative stuff, it is likely that this originates deep inside your brain where there is a primitive place which desperately wants you to pick up a drink. And that's because your whole body changed its chemistry and metabolism around to accommodate the alcohol that was going into it.
You say you've been sober for eleven months. That's real progress! Congratulations! Now, if your brain is saying "Yeah and maybe it's just a dry drunk and I'm going to pick up again" can you say, "There it goes again! I'm just not going to listen to this stuff. I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing one day at a time".
W.
You say you've been sober for eleven months. That's real progress! Congratulations! Now, if your brain is saying "Yeah and maybe it's just a dry drunk and I'm going to pick up again" can you say, "There it goes again! I'm just not going to listen to this stuff. I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing one day at a time".
W.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 164
I know exactly how you feel. I suck at being sober these days but in the past when I've been annoyed at AA I found that it was really a matter of finding the right meetings. Some were better than others and had a higher standard of discussion.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Spencer, you can't do this all by yourself. No one can get sober all on their own. The only way to get sober by yourself, all on your own, without any other requirement, is to Believe you can. I believe that you can get sober, and stay that way forever. Now it's your turn.
The rest is easy.
The rest is easy.
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by Lost3000
Exactly the point about how AA is not for everyone. I think it works so well because it's so readily available. It's also quite flexible, as evidenced in the buddhists, agnostics, atheists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons I come across almost on a daily basis!
Also, don't feel like a dork b/c you didn't know the lord's prayer. Not everyone grew up Catholic.
Also, don't feel like a dork b/c you didn't know the lord's prayer. Not everyone grew up Catholic.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by bbthumper
AA is simple, not easy. As mentioned, the program is not "Just dont drink, go to meetings and pray." If someone can "Just not drink" they arent an alcoholic. This is the kind of watered down message that confuses the hell out of newcomers, as you have come to see.
The program is the 12 steps. Find someone who has worked them and ask to be shown the way. That's how we get results. Nowhere in the book does it say "having had a spiritual awakening as the result of 90 meetings in 90 days and calling my sponsor every day." Its the steps we take not the meetings we make. And it is simple. We have a detailed instruction manual, The Big Book. Get to know it because then youll know who is blowing smoke up your you know what and who is speaking the truth. We have to put some hard work in. If you can find an easy way to recover, my hat is off to you.
I hope you give the program a shot. If not, please understand that if you have not worked the steps, you were never in the program. You were in the fellowship. Two different things.
I say that for two reasons, 1. So the program is still an option for you and 2. You dont go out telling people that the program of AA does not work.
I wish you the best and I really hope you find the answers you need.
The program is the 12 steps. Find someone who has worked them and ask to be shown the way. That's how we get results. Nowhere in the book does it say "having had a spiritual awakening as the result of 90 meetings in 90 days and calling my sponsor every day." Its the steps we take not the meetings we make. And it is simple. We have a detailed instruction manual, The Big Book. Get to know it because then youll know who is blowing smoke up your you know what and who is speaking the truth. We have to put some hard work in. If you can find an easy way to recover, my hat is off to you.
I hope you give the program a shot. If not, please understand that if you have not worked the steps, you were never in the program. You were in the fellowship. Two different things.
I say that for two reasons, 1. So the program is still an option for you and 2. You dont go out telling people that the program of AA does not work.
I wish you the best and I really hope you find the answers you need.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 137
I am new to posting on this site but not new to recovery, I find this thread very interesting as the op has very valid points. AA is most certainly religious but it seems that many (not all) members refuse to acknowledge this fact. I find myself here at the request of a friend who is struggling to find his way in aa as we are both atheists. I have read posts dating back many years and find that this is an on going debate, one which may never end. It is my contention that winning the battle against addiction is the desire to be sober has to out weigh the desire to be addicted. Why any sort of hp is necessary eludes me. I hope the op finds the answers that will help alleviate the confusion.
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