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Please, AAs, Stop Pretending it's Simple...

Old 07-31-2012, 04:10 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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You've been talking to the wrong people at the meetings, or more likely been missing the right people!

The solution in AA is to get a sponsor who has worked the steps of AA to gain a spiritual awakening (drastic personality change) to show you how to do the same.

It's a simple program and is easy....MEETING -> SPONSOR -> STEPS ->SPIRITUAL AWAKENING = RECOVERY FROM ALCOHOLISM

You can start this simple program the first meeting you go and recover...or not, that is up to the individual!
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:17 AM
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Hi Spencer!

My story is similar to many you hear - non religious, pretty anti-God, but AA has really worked for me. I'm smart, well educated, and I had to be really open and willing to "take what I want and leave the rest" - my life depended on it. In AA we say it's "simple but not easy", meaning that fundamentally - DON'T DRINK - is simple, but damn living life without a coping mechanism is definitely anything BUT easy.

I loved the Joe and Charlie big book study. It really spoke to me when I was kind of standing at step three thinking 'what the hell does it mean to turn my life over to God?' It REALLY helped. I hope it helps you too, I highly recommend listening.

JS
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:28 AM
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Spencer:

It seems AA is not for you. That's ok. It wasn't for me, either. But, even though ranting in frustration over that may feel good for a short time, it isn't a plan for recovery. In the end we each have to pick out what works for us...if that isn't AA, then move on.

Please come see us in the secular forums. Check out SMART Recovery, AVRT, SOS, LifeRing, etc. There are so many ways to do this, and you can even pick a little bit here and a little bit there. Don't stop searching, just because you haven't found the right path quite yet.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:39 AM
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Welcome, Spencerhead. I admire your impassioned resolve for sobriety. I've learned to take the good and leave the confusing behind from many forms of recovery; AA, CBT, SMART, AVRT. I do that by focusing on recovery, rather than the program. It works for me. And I am definitely a pig-headed non-conformist when it comes to any type of structured program. My advice is to make your recovery your own. I think that's why SR is so appealing to me. I get to read and share the pros and cons of this and other programs, and expand my resource base for recovery.

This is the philosophy that has caused me to be almost a year sober (in one week), which is far more than I can say of the previous 26 yrs, when I focused solely on AA. Like you, I found parts of the program confusing, and found a multitude of interpretations.

Bottom line, I don't want a program, I just want sobriety, recovery, and a fulfilling life. I am finally on the path to that, and the common denominator is SR. Welcome.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:39 AM
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AA is not the slogans on the wall.

It's spiritual if you want it to be, or it can be religious if you find that approach to be suitable to whatever position you are taking. AA will let you decide if your alcoholism is a disease or a moral failing or just a symptom of something deeper.

AA is 90 in 90 if you want it to be, or not. AA will let you choose your bottom. You can decide not to focus on tomorrow or if you simply want to enjoy, or deal with, (again, it's your choice) today.

AA doesn't mind if you beat on it or kick it around and spit on it, it still will always be there for you when, or if, you want it... or need it.

It is dumbed down nonsense until you don't want it to be... when you stop drinking and actually read the big book, maybe experience some of it for yourself, talk to someone who has lived it... and if it is still dumbed down nonesense to you... then that's OK too.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by spirituald View Post
Over thinking and analyzing everything is one of the things drove me to drink and use.
I can relate to this! That's my historic MO. I'd get my mind wadded up so tight that I'd pace the floor trying to unwind it. I'm glad to have discovered that life works much better with peace and serenity. Actually, it works the same; I just don't make it more difficult anymore.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:18 AM
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i think you may have you glasses on backwards. the program is quite simple. it is us alcoholcs that are complicated. the best thing to do is stop fighting and surrender.

rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.
thoroughly have we seen a person fail who has rarely followed our path.

half measure availed us nothing.
some of us have tried to hold onto our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.


no, you dont have to say the lords prayer. that is your thinking. we dont force anyone to do anything.


so now, whats the solution??? welp, heres what i read:


you havent discovered ahigher power, so you havent even been past the 2nd part of the 1st step. your thinking is rather insane, but there is a power that want to help you if you let it.

going to meetings and not drinking doesnt treat alcoholism. it doesnt say it straight out, but if you study the BB, you will see it says that. in fact, to dat, i havent found anywhere in the 1st 164 pages any mention of going to meetings. we are just very blessed to have them and to have people who have been there teach us how they got out from under.

my thinking got me drunk. my thinking wasnt gona get me sober.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:20 AM
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AA is simple, not easy. As mentioned, the program is not "Just dont drink, go to meetings and pray." If someone can "Just not drink" they arent an alcoholic. This is the kind of watered down message that confuses the hell out of newcomers, as you have come to see.
The program is the 12 steps. Find someone who has worked them and ask to be shown the way. That's how we get results. Nowhere in the book does it say "having had a spiritual awakening as the result of 90 meetings in 90 days and calling my sponsor every day." Its the steps we take not the meetings we make. And it is simple. We have a detailed instruction manual, The Big Book. Get to know it because then youll know who is blowing smoke up your you know what and who is speaking the truth. We have to put some hard work in. If you can find an easy way to recover, my hat is off to you.
I hope you give the program a shot. If not, please understand that if you have not worked the steps, you were never in the program. You were in the fellowship. Two different things.
I say that for two reasons, 1. So the program is still an option for you and 2. You dont go out telling people that the program of AA does not work.

I wish you the best and I really hope you find the answers you need.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:51 AM
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Vent any time.

I fought AA for 25 years. This time around, I was very willing to do what it takes to not drink. I was taken through the steps on days 14 & 15, and on day 16, my fears, my phobias, my feeling uncomfortable in my own skin left me. That is the day I believed in a power greater than me. I haven't had a craving or desire to drink since day 16. This is my story.

I don't go to more than a few meetings a week. I do work the steps into my life. I don't listen to many slogans. I don't say the lord's prayer and I don't like the it works if you work it, that is not AA, that was rehab stuff.

AA does not have a monopoly on recovery and doesn't work for everyone nor is it for everyone. There are many other programs available such as Rational Recovery, AVRT, SMART, SOS, Women for Sobriety, Life Ring to name some, I'm sure there are others. Moderation didn't work for me and smoking weed but not drinking didn't work for me, either. I have to be totally abstinent from all mind altering substances, but if I needed an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety pill prescribed by a doctor, I would attempt that.

Today, I don't have to drink. Others on here don't have to drink, either. We all use different programs and some people have worked their own program. The one thing I know is that if I don't buy it, pick it up and drink it, then I don't get drunk.

I was skeptical of AA for half my life, then I did what the big book suggested. It is simple, it is not easy, but it works for me.

Find a program for you and work it like your life depends upon it.

With love,
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:09 AM
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We don't pretend. (well most of us dont!) So to us it is that simple. It works for some people, sometimes however it doesnt seem to work for others, have you tried another type of recovery program yet?
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:23 AM
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AA and The Big Book has been referred to as "Poorly written, Repetitive, and Simplistic" I thank God and Bill for that. Just sayin...
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:25 AM
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Nice rant. I bet you feel better!

Now what are you going to do?

I just hope you come back and see what an asset SR can be to your recovery.
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by spencerhead View Post
...That it's merely a matter of putting the plug in the jug, or to stop one's stinkin thinkin. Or going to meetings, and joining a home group and being of service and getting a sponsor and freaking praying and repeating slogans.

I know this might be of comfort to you, but it isn't to me. I have been doing all of these for eleven months (includding two 90 in nineties), to no avail. I have not discovered a higher power. The miracle hasn't happened.

It's not that simple. Were that the case, I doubt so many of us would relapse again and again and again and again. Yes, I "want what you have". I would love what you have.

Oh, yes, I know...I'm being resentful and angry. And both of these flaws will compel me to drink again. But then again, it's not my fault. It is my fault. It's a disease, and I am blameless. Or absolutely to blame. And full of remorse and regret. But never full of remorse or regret. On the other hand, I am selfish to the extreme, and am to blame. I should forget yesterday, and never focus on tomorrow, but I should always "remember when". I have to hit bottom. I don't have to hit bottom, because AA "raised the bottom". It isn't a religious program. It is. For some reason we have to say the Lord's Prayer, no matter what our own religious views or lack thereof might be.

Even if you didn't drink to begin with, this kind of doublespeak, contradictory, dumbed-down nonsense would tempt you, IMO.
They don't drag you by your hair into the circle and force the words out of your mouth. You're free to stand out if you so choose.....lol
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:58 AM
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It's not that simple. Were that the case, I doubt so many of us would relapse again and again and again and again. Yes, I "want what you have". I would love what you have.
SIMPLE!! No way. I've been sober 20+ years and from day one it was never simple. During my first year I cried constantly and was an emotional wreck. Thank God for AA, I could never have gotten sober on my own, but I never heard anyone say sobriety was simple. We put booze down and we're still alcoholics. As Bill Wilson says in the Big Book: drinking is but a symptom of our disorder. But it did get better and I promise it will for you as well.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:30 PM
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I'm an AA'er and don't say the lord's prayer, I'm not Christian. But I follow the steps and go to mtgs, meet with my sponsor, and none of it includes the "lord". My HP is described as a river, a sort of force (think Mother Nature). But I've never had to actually find a box to fit it into, and no one's forced me to either. Looking back, that was my excuse to not quit drinking, because honestly, I really didn't want to. I just knew I had to.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:48 PM
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I am here in Cleveland Ohio, where every one of the 1,300 meeting a week we close with the lords prayer. I didnt even know it when I came in, but for me its my higher power and the fellowship. And as a agnostic I am completely fine with it, I have grown more in a year in the program than I did in 20 of drinking and drugging.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:12 PM
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I meant to add that about 50% of the mtgs I attend (approx. 3 diff locations) close with the lord's prayer. The other 50% close with the serenity prayer or other.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:29 PM
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Lets not be so quick to judge one program that is not working for you. Now that you had your rant whats your solution to stay sober? AA has helped many of us not for everyone but there are other programs out there so good luck finding one that works for you.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:49 PM
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The only thing NOT mentioned in that excellent rant is the ONE thing that AA is based on and is AA's entire basis for recovery - working the 12 Steps out of the big book with a sponsor. Everything else is an adjunct to that, including meetings. The "plug in the jug", "don't drink no matter what" never worked for me. I drink no matter what and the plug won't stay in the jug. With the steps, at least I started to see why - and the journey gets pretty interesting then!
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost3000 View Post
I meant to add that about 50% of the mtgs I attend (approx. 3 diff locations) close with the lord's prayer. The other 50% close with the serenity prayer or other.
Yeah, for my first month or two i stood in the circle and didnt say a word, i just stared at everyone else, lol. I was agnostic when I came in, but now Im happy to say I have a higher power so I do say it now, but nobody makes me and i certainly dont feel compelled to.
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