OklaBH

Yep I can tell first post if it is anything I need. I love SR because I have a meeting handy all the time.

EternalQ

Anna,
Thank you.

regeneration

Thanks for all your hard work on here Anna.

instant

Thanks Anna. I get it now.

Sapling

You know....I don't think there is any question that Anna does a fantastic job here...That's not what this thread is about....I just don't see a difference if I say that God keeps me sober....Or long walks keep me sober...Or what I do to my beast keeps me sober....The idea here is to get sober. We're adults here with a fatal progressive disease....I think we can choose what we want to read and not read...What we want to respond too...And not respond too...I get a lot of messages from people that approve of what I do here...And I'm going to keep doing it...Until you tell me I can't...But I think locking threads...Like the one that was locked....Sends a message there is something wrong with AA....And not the people that have a problem with it. I thank God for another day sober...And I hope and pray I can say something that might help somebody today.

RobbyRobot

Yeah.

It's when things get one-sided, you know?

It's when one way is made to be better than another way, simply because someone says it was for them, respectively, okay?

When that kind of dialog happens in a thread, then things start to go south, and eventually, things will bottom out in no where land...

Share experience, strength, and hope. It is not always required to say why a certain way worked for you compared to another way that dosen't, or wouldn't.

In short, no one person, no matter how succesful at being sober, has 'the best way' into sobriety.

Some people find it difficult to understand their past experiences may not be the best for everybody else to repeat.

Its always good to be honest with our shares, sure, but when we really start promoting a certain 'way'.... then we start something that will only attract others who do the same, and then, well, you know....

Anna

Sapling, I never intended to make it seem like AA was the reason the thread was locked.

Simple logistics - I am in and out today (mostly out) and it seemed like things had been veering off into the ditch and I hoped to prevent anything from going wrong.

I was not blaming any program at all, as the reason for closing the thread - merely, that I was being cautious.

I appreciate the message that you and all of our members bring to the Newcomers, and I hope we can all remember that acceptance is part of the package of recovery.

For those who asked, Newcomers is open and available to anyone who arrives here and it doesn't make any difference how long you've been around. You will always be welcome in the Newcomers forum.

Dee74

Anna's one of the fairest and most open minded people I know.
Her prescence here is the reason why this forum is so popular IMO

I've been disappointed too when I've looked in this last week - the jostling over recovery methods lately needs to stop.

The number of newcomers has exploded over the last year.

if we want to keep doing the great job we all do here - regardless of what we believe, or where we stand on recovery methods - we all need to collectively take a deep breath and reorder our priorities, I think.

It would not be right if the 'My Recovery Can Beat Up Your Recovery' threads get all the attention and response, while others new to the site are waiting for replies and support.

Our recovery experience is a very personal and very powerful statement - I believe who we are, and how we act, is the most powerful proof we have that recovery really does work.

That should be able to stand alone as testament.

I'd like everyone to consider that idea.

D

Room1

I've been a member of this site for years, haven't posted for ages though, cause I am kinda crap at the quitting thing, but I think Anna has a point, thats why I tend to just read now rather than post. This site is a great help to me when I want it to be! So I have learn't to read what helps and ignore what doesn't, but I can see how a newcomer to the site is not going to know what helps or hinders them:-/

Sapling

But this was the title of the thread...

AA Elevator Pitch.....Inspired by Sapling

And I didn't start it.....It was only people that use AA giving their reasons why it worked for them...No other programs mentioned...If someone is not interested in AA...They won't read it...If someone has a problem with AA...They'll probably stir something up...Maybe that's what should be locked around here...It's always the same small group. Tell them to knock it off...Or start threads for what works for them. I've only been here since December and I've seen this over and over and over.

Fandy

I personally find all the AA promotion in Newcomers kind of pushy.

what you might consider saying instead is to invite the poster over to the 12step AA section to read those threads.

thanks Anna for all you do and I very much respect your hard work.

hypochondriac

Sapling, this isn't about you. It is easy to get offended when a thread is closed but while things are being discussed about this, even on this thread, there are newcomers posting asking for help. You do so much here and you really are ace, but let it go x

I reckon Anna and Dee are the higher powers of the Newcomers forum and we should accept that they know what's best x

wellwisher

When I was in the hospital detox, a man came to my room and I will never forget his manner. He told me he was a member of AA (and I subsequently learned he was doing service work), and merely asked me how I was feeling and what brought me there to the detox unit. I was reluctant to speak to him at the beginning of his visit. I knew what this guy was all about, and the hackles on my neck went up at the very thought of talking to him. But there was just something about this man.

He was an AA member doing his service work, and the concern for me in his eyes spoke volumes. He didn't speak much, and I don't know, maybe I started out talking because I didn't like the dead air sitting in front of me, but sure enough, talk I did, and it was then when the scales from my eyes regarding AA started to fall off. They didn't disappear, but here was this nice calm man sitting in front of me, and he isn't thumping a Bible. He isn't judging me. He is kind of identifying with me. This man didn't push me at all. I spoke with him almost to the point of babbling, but I found I couldn't stop myself. It was a great relief to be heard.

Sometimes we just want to be heard; 'tis all...

Thank you, Anna, for reminding me about this...

Anna

Sapling, this is my last post on this thread.

"Sapling, I never intended to make it seem like AA was the reason the thread was locked" - I made this comment to you because you said it seemed like AA was the closure problem. It wasn't.

This is not about you and it is not about AA. Please understand that.

It is about ACCEPTANCE.

OklaBH

And that is the KEY my friend! ACCEPT IT! Dont get me wrong I love AA. We all dont get it the first few times around. Anymore on here if someone says "I broke my toe" I see posts that say "are you working the steps?" "do you have a sponsor" The dude that wouldnt shut up about SMART recovery was killing me.

Either, or we want the end result. Personally I get more from SR than AA

Sapling

Why?......That's what worked for him...Maybe he saved somebody's life...And you'll never even know it.

OklaBH

you are right! 1000% I know what works for me so yes, I get defensive (which is childish)

Peter G

If I could, let me preface what I'm about to share: Anna is 100% right about these lame debates, when they actually do occur. It gets to a point occasionally when I have to take long breaks from posting and reading for only that reason. The "my program is bigger than yours" stuff is way old, and not useful to newcomers. I'd also like to point out that there are those members who flat out insult certain programs, using veiled comments, innuendo, and sarcasm that crosses all lines of acceptable behavior. That sort of thing is irresponsible in the newcomers threads. Straight up. I'm putting that out there so we can all be a bit more aware; there are occasions when a few of us older members have seen posters manipulating and steering this tired nonsense.

So yeah, the whole program bashing/comparing/ridiculing it's all extremely uncool, but I get to take a break when it gets thick around here. Anna, Dee, and the other unsung heroes at SR have to MOD this stuff day in and day out, so no doubt it rattles nerves. They have every right to be disappointed.

But...<insert ominous string quartet here>

... Here's what I've also seen lately, and I know I'll be rustling feathers to mention it. Sometimes there is a rush to close a thread. Maybe not a rush, but a presumptuous judgment borne from understandable impatience with "program bashing". This is - of course - bound to happen. I blame on the pure volume the MODS deal with every day. Whether that can be admitted openly, without an ego or policy being bruised or not, it has happened. Sorry if I am inadvertently offending anyone, truly, but sometimes impatience has been seen to trump impartiality, and in that EXTREMELY RARE case there is a justifiable reason why some members end up feeling they've been treated poorly, or stifled unfairly. I've already mentioned this to some folks here via PM, so I don't think it presumptuous to bring it up now, considering this thread subject matter.

Sometimes threads do get what looks like preemptive strikes, in that they're locked/judged on the mere possibility of that argument potentially heating up. A less 'desensitized'(?) look might show that a lock wasn't always required. I can't fault that at all, but here's why I'm rocking that particular boat... when this happens it really can come at the expense of an important conversation, potentially failing a new and still suffering alcoholic who is just seeking answers of ALL kinds. Again, I don't mean to offend not one. single. person. But I do remain ever concerned that someone exactly like me (when I first joined) may miss a message that could effectively keep them from tanking. More importantly, an open thread would keep them here posting, asking questions, and even arguing (if that's what it takes) rather than running to the pub for Vodka. I'd rather see our collective concern for that scenario trump any hypersensitivity to the old and tired arguments. Vets are sick as hell of those whinge-fests, granted, but new folks have no idea, and the ensuing conversation might actually hold something extremely helpful within the whinging and moaning.

There is also plenty of room for us NON MOD folks who have been here a while to just police ourselves, as well as to take the time and let newer folks what is and is not cool. I truly haven't seen that happen much, but I'd suspect that would be extremely helpful. For example; the recent thread in question ended up being not much more than a back and forth between 2 veteran posters, 2 cats that I respect a great deal. Let's be honest fellas, ALL of that A/B conversation could have taken place via PM's. Anna called it spot on, the thread began as a potentially divisive and provocative subject matter, so it was bound to explode without every contributor exercising a good amount of discretion.

So there's my 0.02, and as I read it back I'm not sure if I'm making any frikin sense at all lol. One thing is for sure, I ramble a lot, but I am only trying to help. In the end all I can think to suggest is this; how about we try and help the MOD's by policing our own arguments better? If it starts getting redundant, insulting, or swaying too far from the intent of the OP, take it to PM's? This really isn't about us in the end, it's about the folks who come here desperate, punch drunk, and needing ALL sorts of varying options.

And btw Mods? You all are the Gods of the internet, full stop. You have and continue to do a frikin stellar job, 100% of the time. None of what's being said here is to slam on you folks at all.

Dee74

There's a lot that goes on in a forum this size that folks just don't see or even know about.

Rest assured there are no impulsive decisions made - the system just doesn't work like that.

We work to rules and we're transparently accountable to our peers.

We actually sit on our hands a lot more than I think people realise.

D

OklaBH

SOOOOOOOOOOO glad you are back Dee! You have been missed!