AVRT Questions
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by Michael66
Is there any risk though that someone using this approach might not take responsibility for their actions and the hurt they have caused themselves and others?
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Since the AV will invariably try to argue that there is nothing wrong with drinking, nothing wrong at all, AVRT identifies this as a key problem, and intentionally restores the moral axis of addiction. In AVRT, addiction is indeed a moral issue, and assuming you have decided that drinking is wrong for you, the AV becomes an immoral proposition.
Paradox, Humor, Change
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Naples, FL USA
Posts: 888
I am a member of AA, that said, I agree with AVRT in identify the "voice the tells us to drink" as not themselves. When they voice speaks to me, I DONT BELIEVE IT. I dont put my faith in it. Thats said, being sober alone is a miserable state for me, that is why I drank in the first place. I find that having "Spiritual Practice" in my life is the key to happiness and peace of mind. When I am happy and at peace the BEAST speaks to me less, which means I dont drink, which frees me up to have spiritual practice, which brings me peace of mind and happiness, peace of mind and happiness makes the BEAST speak to me less.....etc etc etc. And around I go. There are tons of options as far finding a spiritual practice. We need not be in any box. I hope this helps. Best Wishes - SM.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 309
Personal Responsibility
"In Rational Recovery, we are each responsible for acquiring, maintaining, and ending our addictions, and we are also responsible for our behavior and the consequences of our addictions."
(Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction, Page 99)
Yes, you read that correctly. With AVRT, we are responsible even for acquiring our addiction, and since addiction is not viewed as a disease, a symptom, or even a treatable condition, there is a much bigger apology due than just the usual "honey, I'm sorry for all that bad stuff I did while drunk."
(Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction, Page 99)
Yes, you read that correctly. With AVRT, we are responsible even for acquiring our addiction, and since addiction is not viewed as a disease, a symptom, or even a treatable condition, there is a much bigger apology due than just the usual "honey, I'm sorry for all that bad stuff I did while drunk."
Argonaut
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 479
Sorry for bumping this topic but I tend to disagree with this "The Beast was born in an orgasm of biological pleasure that exceeds the common, natural dimensions of physical gratification. "
I found this on AVRT in a nutshell: "In effect, you have two separate "brains" within your head which compete with each other. One is primitive, similar to the brain of a dog or a horse. This we call the midbrain. It is basically the brain of a beast and its only purpose is to survive. The beast brain generates survival appetites that drive the rest of the body toward what it demands, such as oxygen, food, sex, and fluids. In some people (it matters not how), substances such as alcohol, cocaine, heroin, and marijuana get mixed in with the midbrain's real survival needs. "
So basically the mid-brain sees alcohol and other drugs that have been used too much as the same as the need for food or sex. It sends a signal (a craving) to our neocortex that translates that signal into thoughts about drinking. Doesn't this mean that the beast is actually a part of our neocortex and the Addictive Voice is a part of our Addictive Personality?
I found this on AVRT in a nutshell: "In effect, you have two separate "brains" within your head which compete with each other. One is primitive, similar to the brain of a dog or a horse. This we call the midbrain. It is basically the brain of a beast and its only purpose is to survive. The beast brain generates survival appetites that drive the rest of the body toward what it demands, such as oxygen, food, sex, and fluids. In some people (it matters not how), substances such as alcohol, cocaine, heroin, and marijuana get mixed in with the midbrain's real survival needs. "
So basically the mid-brain sees alcohol and other drugs that have been used too much as the same as the need for food or sex. It sends a signal (a craving) to our neocortex that translates that signal into thoughts about drinking. Doesn't this mean that the beast is actually a part of our neocortex and the Addictive Voice is a part of our Addictive Personality?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by Geralt 
Sorry for bumping this topic but I tend to disagree with this "The Beast was born in an orgasm of biological pleasure that exceeds the common, natural dimensions of physical gratification. "
I'm aware that some mothers drink during pregnancy, and that some babies are born alcohol-dependent, but it is unlikely that is the case with most people. It would make for an interesting discussion on just how early the Beast can be born, though.
Originally Posted by Geralt
So basically the mid-brain sees alcohol and other drugs that have been used too much as the same as the need for food or sex. It sends a signal (a craving) to our neocortex that translates that signal into thoughts about drinking. Doesn't this mean that the beast is actually a part of our neocortex and the Addictive Voice is a part of our Addictive Personality?
Think about when you get hungry. Your Limbic system feels hunger, but that alone won't get you fed, so your AV (animal voice) shows you pictures of food, or possibly the supermarket, and how to prepare the ingredients into a meal. The Beast is a turbo-charged version of a natural survival mechanism, and the addictive voice is a super-charged version of your natural animal voice.
Regardless, though, the structural model used by RR is mostly to help explain what is going on. It was taken out of a seventh grade science textbook. It is useful for newbies, kind of like how "The Doctor's Opinion" lays the groundwork for AA, but in practice, the I/It separation of AVRT is between higher (moral) reason and lower base drives. AVRT would still "work" without the structural model.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by Dalek
The Beast is just that crazy, crazy desire to get drunk, drunk, drunk (or high). Did that crazy desire always exist? Did you have this crazy desire before you ever took that first drink, such as when you first popped out of your mother's womb? Were you born an alcoholic baby?
I'm aware that some mothers drink during pregnancy, and that some babies are born alcohol-dependent, but it is unlikely that is the case with most people. It would make for an interesting discussion on just how early the Beast can be born, though.
No. The Beast is part of the midbrain, or more accurately, the Limbic system. The Limbic system has no thoughts as humans experience them, only feelings. Those feelings are then expressed as thoughts in your mind's eye and ear. This is the Addictive Voice. Most addiction models make no distinction between the desire and the expression of that desire, hence the "addictive personality" explanation, but AVRT does make a distinction.
Think about when you get hungry. Your Limbic system feels hunger, but that alone won't get you fed, so your AV (animal voice) shows you pictures of food, or possibly the supermarket, and how to prepare the ingredients into a meal. The Beast is a turbo-charged version of a natural survival mechanism, and the addictive voice is a super-charged version of your natural animal voice.
Regardless, though, the structural model used by RR is mostly to help explain what is going on. It was taken out of a seventh grade science textbook. It is useful for newbies, kind of like how "The Doctor's Opinion" lays the groundwork for AA, but in practice, the I/It separation of AVRT is between higher (moral) reason and lower base drives. AVRT would still "work" without the structural model.
I'm aware that some mothers drink during pregnancy, and that some babies are born alcohol-dependent, but it is unlikely that is the case with most people. It would make for an interesting discussion on just how early the Beast can be born, though.
No. The Beast is part of the midbrain, or more accurately, the Limbic system. The Limbic system has no thoughts as humans experience them, only feelings. Those feelings are then expressed as thoughts in your mind's eye and ear. This is the Addictive Voice. Most addiction models make no distinction between the desire and the expression of that desire, hence the "addictive personality" explanation, but AVRT does make a distinction.
Think about when you get hungry. Your Limbic system feels hunger, but that alone won't get you fed, so your AV (animal voice) shows you pictures of food, or possibly the supermarket, and how to prepare the ingredients into a meal. The Beast is a turbo-charged version of a natural survival mechanism, and the addictive voice is a super-charged version of your natural animal voice.
Regardless, though, the structural model used by RR is mostly to help explain what is going on. It was taken out of a seventh grade science textbook. It is useful for newbies, kind of like how "The Doctor's Opinion" lays the groundwork for AA, but in practice, the I/It separation of AVRT is between higher (moral) reason and lower base drives. AVRT would still "work" without the structural model.
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