Alcohol a disease?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by TheRestorative
Either way, I don't see myself going back to where I was, so there's really no sense in reasoning.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,899
Originally Posted by onlythetruth 
"I have a disease and I'm in recovery forever" pretty depressing and unhelpful. It doesn't represent my reality at all.
I can relate to that POV.
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
Yes, this topic has popped up over and over again, and will always do so, I suspect. My thoughts are...I really don't care what it is. The bottom line is, I had a problem and had to deal with it. Luckily, I found the solution. However, there are many aspects difficult to explain. The genetic aspect of it, alcoholism runs in the family. This makes me think there is something more than just choosing to drink and drinking turning into a life altering problem.
I remember the first time I drank and the "WOW" factor entered into the picture. I haven't had that happen with any other thing in life, not to the point of an uncontrollable obsession. I like food, but don't act insane to get it. I don't over indulge in food. I don't gamble my paychecks away. I like to shop, but still manage my money to pay my bills at the end of the month. I have common sense on any other matter with the exception of alcohol. Why is that? Why is it I would do anything and everything to get another drink even though it would go against my every morale being?
I was a mess, miserable, stupid, ashamed, a liar. Without it I'm none of those. I allowed it to bring me to my knees and destroy me. I know drinking creates many emotions and bad behaviors, but the hold/grip it had on me is like nothing else I have ever experienced. That hold gets my attention and I have to think there is something more to it, or behind it.
When I was in the throws of my addiction, I was physically, mentally addicted to booze, I never pondered whether or not it was a disease or not. None of that crossed my mind. I didn't care. My only concern was planning my alcohol and drinking it. It was a day in and day out commitment. I never used the notion of "disease" as an excuse to drink. I had enough of my own stockpiled and never needed to go there. With my experience, I definitely know that picking up a drink and having the "WOW" factor kick in, followed by the progression, is something different than what a moderate drinker experiences. Today it is a choice not to drink. When I was drinking I lost my choice. Perhaps that is a statement hard to understand unless you lived it.
When I read these threads, the comparisons and the semantics, I shake my head and wonder.
Everyone has an opinion. That is fine, but what does it really matter? What matters is making the changes followed by making the right choices. The only way I was able to do that was to eliminate alcohol from my system and to never allow it back in. When I did that...sanity returned back into my life.
I remember the first time I drank and the "WOW" factor entered into the picture. I haven't had that happen with any other thing in life, not to the point of an uncontrollable obsession. I like food, but don't act insane to get it. I don't over indulge in food. I don't gamble my paychecks away. I like to shop, but still manage my money to pay my bills at the end of the month. I have common sense on any other matter with the exception of alcohol. Why is that? Why is it I would do anything and everything to get another drink even though it would go against my every morale being?
I was a mess, miserable, stupid, ashamed, a liar. Without it I'm none of those. I allowed it to bring me to my knees and destroy me. I know drinking creates many emotions and bad behaviors, but the hold/grip it had on me is like nothing else I have ever experienced. That hold gets my attention and I have to think there is something more to it, or behind it.
When I was in the throws of my addiction, I was physically, mentally addicted to booze, I never pondered whether or not it was a disease or not. None of that crossed my mind. I didn't care. My only concern was planning my alcohol and drinking it. It was a day in and day out commitment. I never used the notion of "disease" as an excuse to drink. I had enough of my own stockpiled and never needed to go there. With my experience, I definitely know that picking up a drink and having the "WOW" factor kick in, followed by the progression, is something different than what a moderate drinker experiences. Today it is a choice not to drink. When I was drinking I lost my choice. Perhaps that is a statement hard to understand unless you lived it.
When I read these threads, the comparisons and the semantics, I shake my head and wonder.
Everyone has an opinion. That is fine, but what does it really matter? What matters is making the changes followed by making the right choices. The only way I was able to do that was to eliminate alcohol from my system and to never allow it back in. When I did that...sanity returned back into my life.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 21
My 2 cents:
If you call it a disease, and are able ( or better able) to quit drinking, then call it a disease.
If you are someone who will use your belief that alcoholism is a disease as a excuse and break down after you've quit drinking, then you better evolve your thinking into someone who believes alcoholism is not a disease.
Hope that made a little sense
I just quit Monday, and am using the AVRT method. Therefore, I'm not choosing to call my alcoholism a disease.
If you call it a disease, and are able ( or better able) to quit drinking, then call it a disease.
If you are someone who will use your belief that alcoholism is a disease as a excuse and break down after you've quit drinking, then you better evolve your thinking into someone who believes alcoholism is not a disease.
Hope that made a little sense
I just quit Monday, and am using the AVRT method. Therefore, I'm not choosing to call my alcoholism a disease.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 737
Every time I see this topic come up here, I think of this TU quote...
"If drinking screws you up and alcoholism is a disease, you had better quit drinking. If drinking screws you up and alcoholism isn't a disease, you still had better quit drinking."
I've yet to see this debate more aptly addressed where us booze hounds are concerned.
"If drinking screws you up and alcoholism is a disease, you had better quit drinking. If drinking screws you up and alcoholism isn't a disease, you still had better quit drinking."
I've yet to see this debate more aptly addressed where us booze hounds are concerned.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
The belief that I had the power within me to stop drinking was what let me do it. Believing I had a disease that was incurable, especially one passed on to me genetically, was not going to let me get sober. I used to drink and I was physically and emotionally sick, but I don't drink now, nor will I ever drink again. I am good, and by all reports, better than before I started the heavy drinking. What kind of disease is that?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by freshstart57
Believing I had a disease that was incurable, especially one passed on to me genetically, was not going to let me get sober.
L'il fighter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 297
In all honestly, I haven't spent that much time thinking about it. I do acknowledge that there is a very good chance that there is a genetic component to my alcoholism - it runs in the family and I pretty much drank alcoholically from the start - but ultimately, seeking the "how's" and "why's" hasn't been crucial in finding happiness and stability in sobriety.
I, too, find it unfortunate that some addicts use the disease model to excuse their current and past behaviour. I say "some", because many don't do this.
I agree with the sentiment that one should abide by whatever model best facilitates sobriety for that individual. Whatever philosophy works best and still allows the person to take ownership of their actions.
I, too, find it unfortunate that some addicts use the disease model to excuse their current and past behaviour. I say "some", because many don't do this.
I agree with the sentiment that one should abide by whatever model best facilitates sobriety for that individual. Whatever philosophy works best and still allows the person to take ownership of their actions.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I don't know if I am cured, because I didn't have a disease. Is the question, am I still an alcoholic? Alcoholics drink, don't they? I don't. Alcoholics crave alcohol, I don't. Alcoholics can't control their alcohol intake, I can and do, I have absolute control. Just like an ex tobacco smoker who is no longer an addict, I am no longer an alcohol addict.
So, what do you think, am I an alcoholic?
So, what do you think, am I an alcoholic?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by freshstart57
I don't know if I am cured, because I didn't have a disease. Is the question, am I still an alcoholic? Alcoholics drink, don't they? I don't. Alcoholics crave alcohol, I don't. Alcoholics can't control their alcohol intake, I can and do, I have absolute control. Just like an ex tobacco smoker who is no longer an addict, I am no longer an alcohol addict.
So, what do you think, am I an alcoholic?
So, what do you think, am I an alcoholic?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
I find it interesting....It's one of those debates that will never finish....I guess that's why it comes up so often. I've only been here since December and I've seen it hashed out a few times already. It's good for me to see different views on it. Nothing's more important than getting it out of your life though. Whatever it is...It can destroy you...And it will kill you.
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
So, what do you think, am I an alcoholic?
Yes, you are an alcoholic, IMO. If you drank to excess and your life became unmanageable, due to your drinking, I think it is safe to say, you are an alcoholic. So am I. I don't drink. I don't crave. I control my drinking by abstinence. I am no longer addicted to alcohol because it is out of my system. I am a sober alcoholic. If I were to pick up again I believe my life would begin to crumble and I would be right back to where I started, but personally believe it will get worse. That in itself is enough to keep me sober. I am not going backward. I have worked to hard to risk everything. Disease, condition, malady, bad habit, bad choice, obsession, mental illness, whatever you want to call it, I'm done with it. Today, I don't drink. That is my focus and my main objective.
I'd rather fill my thoughts with positives, helpful to sobriety, than to ponder a topic that will always have differing opinions. Nothing wrong with that, but we have to be able to list "it" under some grouping. For myself, until everyone can agree or science can confirm and insurance companies can define otherwise, etc., I'll consider myself simply as a "drunk" who is now sober. A rose is still a rose by any other name. Although, alcoholism is far from beautiful and does not smell as sweet. It is what it is, awful, no matter what column you choose to list it under.
Yes, you are an alcoholic, IMO. If you drank to excess and your life became unmanageable, due to your drinking, I think it is safe to say, you are an alcoholic. So am I. I don't drink. I don't crave. I control my drinking by abstinence. I am no longer addicted to alcohol because it is out of my system. I am a sober alcoholic. If I were to pick up again I believe my life would begin to crumble and I would be right back to where I started, but personally believe it will get worse. That in itself is enough to keep me sober. I am not going backward. I have worked to hard to risk everything. Disease, condition, malady, bad habit, bad choice, obsession, mental illness, whatever you want to call it, I'm done with it. Today, I don't drink. That is my focus and my main objective.
I'd rather fill my thoughts with positives, helpful to sobriety, than to ponder a topic that will always have differing opinions. Nothing wrong with that, but we have to be able to list "it" under some grouping. For myself, until everyone can agree or science can confirm and insurance companies can define otherwise, etc., I'll consider myself simply as a "drunk" who is now sober. A rose is still a rose by any other name. Although, alcoholism is far from beautiful and does not smell as sweet. It is what it is, awful, no matter what column you choose to list it under.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
This debate about whether alcoholism is a "disease" always acts as a red flag to stir things up. If that means that it is the result of something "happening" to a person, for which he or she is not "responsible" and which the person need only sit back and passively follow the advice of doctors to get "cured", then this seems to me an inappropriate description. Alcoholism, although it may have a genetic component, is also a result of volitional, cultural and family factors. And recovery may not come without commitment to a program which requires courage, stamina, patience and just plain guts. The closest analogy may be diabetes. A person suffering from that doesn't get better unless he or she resolves to lay off sugar and lose weight. So an alcoholic can't drink. It's a medical condition but it has resulted, at least in part, from a voluntary act and needs a lot of commitment and resolve to achieve recovery.
W.
W.
Encourager In Training
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: KS
Posts: 717
A keystone of my permanent abstinence is the belief I have SOMETHING that renders me irreversibly unable to moderate.
It will NEVER be possible for me to become a “normie”, and I am super-ok with that.
The more I ponder this thread, the more I warm up to the “allergy” concept. A person who is allergic to bees does not become un-allergic by taking precautions to not get stung. S/he is simply doing what it takes to avoid the negative consequences of the allergy.
So goes me with alcohol. God willing I have 50+ years of life to live. Here in America, that equals about six gazillion opportunities to imbibe. That’s six gazillion declinations, though the vast majority will be so mindless I won’t even notice. However, 5, 10, 20 years from now when the roving beachside water approaches my cabana with a gold margarita for my bride, the reasoning behind why I made the decision to never drink again might not be as crystalline as it is today, nearly three years after my last longneck.
Perhaps we can all agree that it’s “never” for a reason and leave it at that.
It will NEVER be possible for me to become a “normie”, and I am super-ok with that.
The more I ponder this thread, the more I warm up to the “allergy” concept. A person who is allergic to bees does not become un-allergic by taking precautions to not get stung. S/he is simply doing what it takes to avoid the negative consequences of the allergy.
So goes me with alcohol. God willing I have 50+ years of life to live. Here in America, that equals about six gazillion opportunities to imbibe. That’s six gazillion declinations, though the vast majority will be so mindless I won’t even notice. However, 5, 10, 20 years from now when the roving beachside water approaches my cabana with a gold margarita for my bride, the reasoning behind why I made the decision to never drink again might not be as crystalline as it is today, nearly three years after my last longneck.
Perhaps we can all agree that it’s “never” for a reason and leave it at that.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,899
From a medical perspective I can how alcoholism can be classified as a disease. Aside from the pathogen, diseases follow a specific criteria.
A disease is:
Take out the cause of alcoholism (the debatable part) and concentrate on the symptoms (the more agreeable part) and discussions like these might have a more common view than not..maybe
A disease is:
- Chronic, they develop over a course of time.
- Progressive, they get worse when untreated.
- Potentially Fatal, left untreated they can kill a person. Even with treatment, compilations from having the disease can be deadly even if one is in treatment.
Take out the cause of alcoholism (the debatable part) and concentrate on the symptoms (the more agreeable part) and discussions like these might have a more common view than not..maybe
So it goes
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,620
Life fits those criteria Zencat
I think the reason people come down quite heavily on the disease / no disease argument is because the disease notion is central to AA
If you reject that, you are rejecting AA, and those who have found a way out via AA dont like that
I believe alcohol is not a disease. It is an addictive drug, if I started smoking heavily, or taking any other drug , I would become addicted, nobody considers those a disease
However, whatever works for your way to recover.
I think the reason people come down quite heavily on the disease / no disease argument is because the disease notion is central to AA
If you reject that, you are rejecting AA, and those who have found a way out via AA dont like that
I believe alcohol is not a disease. It is an addictive drug, if I started smoking heavily, or taking any other drug , I would become addicted, nobody considers those a disease
However, whatever works for your way to recover.
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