Planning to taper off? A challenge.
Sober Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Planning to taper off? A challenge.
Two challenges actually. The first challenge is to read this entire post. It will not be easy for most of you who have this plan. I’ll get to the second challenge in a minute.
Often, I get the impression that people who are tapering, cutting down, stopping gradually, (whatever you want to call it) are trying to have it both ways. They want to drink, because they, like the rest of us, like the effect. At the same time they realize that it’s not a good thing (for any variety of reasons) so they also want to feel like they are quitting. In this manor they can always feel good no matter what they are doing! And that’s the important thing right? Feeling good!
Still with me?
If you’re like 99% of us, this manor of stopping will fail. However the person who try's it (and believe me I did, a 1000 times) will remain unshaken in their belief that it will, eventually, succeed. It’s amazing how alcohol will turn a normally rational individual into someone who is completely unable to judge reality (even with a BAC of 0, and often because of that).
My second challenge to you is to have a definition of failure for this plan. Pick ANY point to give up this strategy? After the 1st (failed) attempt? The 3rd? The 23rd? How long are you going to give it? A week? A month? 6 months? What will you consider a success? Not drinking for a day? A week? A month? If you go back to drinking after say 6 months, are you going to do the same thing all over again? Define exactly what is failure and what you will consider a success. Answer the questions above and write it down on paper. Then if the plan fails, give up the idea of tapering. That’s the second challenge.
Still reading?
If you’re like most of us you did not think about this. You’re going to “see how it goes”. This simply means there is no plan …. So there can be no failure and you can continue to feel good (and bad) about what you are doing regardless of what you do…….until………. some sort of (dreadful) event takes place to shake your confidence in this method and make you give up this strategy altogether. This tends to take place at the least convenient of all possible times. Trust me.
My suggestion? See your doctor and have him work out a plan for you based on the amount of alcohol you are ingesting….. and stick with it. Then have something you can do every single day, from now on, to address this problem. Because if you don't, it will be a bigger problem in the future.
Still reading? Congratulations, you met the first challenge.
Often, I get the impression that people who are tapering, cutting down, stopping gradually, (whatever you want to call it) are trying to have it both ways. They want to drink, because they, like the rest of us, like the effect. At the same time they realize that it’s not a good thing (for any variety of reasons) so they also want to feel like they are quitting. In this manor they can always feel good no matter what they are doing! And that’s the important thing right? Feeling good!
Still with me?
If you’re like 99% of us, this manor of stopping will fail. However the person who try's it (and believe me I did, a 1000 times) will remain unshaken in their belief that it will, eventually, succeed. It’s amazing how alcohol will turn a normally rational individual into someone who is completely unable to judge reality (even with a BAC of 0, and often because of that).
My second challenge to you is to have a definition of failure for this plan. Pick ANY point to give up this strategy? After the 1st (failed) attempt? The 3rd? The 23rd? How long are you going to give it? A week? A month? 6 months? What will you consider a success? Not drinking for a day? A week? A month? If you go back to drinking after say 6 months, are you going to do the same thing all over again? Define exactly what is failure and what you will consider a success. Answer the questions above and write it down on paper. Then if the plan fails, give up the idea of tapering. That’s the second challenge.
Still reading?
If you’re like most of us you did not think about this. You’re going to “see how it goes”. This simply means there is no plan …. So there can be no failure and you can continue to feel good (and bad) about what you are doing regardless of what you do…….until………. some sort of (dreadful) event takes place to shake your confidence in this method and make you give up this strategy altogether. This tends to take place at the least convenient of all possible times. Trust me.
My suggestion? See your doctor and have him work out a plan for you based on the amount of alcohol you are ingesting….. and stick with it. Then have something you can do every single day, from now on, to address this problem. Because if you don't, it will be a bigger problem in the future.
Still reading? Congratulations, you met the first challenge.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Seas
Posts: 55
lol... thanks for the vote of confidence that this "method will fail". That may be your experience but that doesn't need to be for everyone!
So lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
I suggest that those with 'alcohol issues' are not all 'alcoholics' as typically defined. Is it possible there are those that fall somewhere in between. (EG. it has not progressed, we don't black out, we can stop at 2 (if we choose), don't binge, or need to drink when I wake up in the morning etc)? We aren't drinking at the level where physical dependence is there.
BUT its more of a psychological/habit then anything else. Just like some that like to have candy or ice cream everyday...along those lines. I don't want to minimize that alcohol is a drug and toxic. It is! But like eating too much saturated fat everyday, its not a good thing. Having a few drinks/day is also not a good thing, although in a number of cultures (e.g. Italy, Spain, France) it'd be fine!
In my situation my goal is NOT abstinence. This is the big distinction. So my goals are different. I'm not a drunk or alcoholic as defined. But I DO want a lifestyle change to not drink daily. My initial objective was to reduce consumption, and be more conscious about what I was doing, and do that consistently. This I've done over the last week +. Yeah!
My GOAL is to not drink daily and fall within the DrinkWise guidelines for women. No more than 9/week and 3/night. Because it is a psychological issue I need counselling to support this behaviour change. I don't have in place quite yet but am happy at my progress at reducing 2/night (almost half of where I was)! Can we celebrate here. I see few applauding that.
Perhaps for folks like me who fall in between somewhere, we're better to go into a Moderation Management forum or another forum? Most folks here are on a total abstinence program which makes it difficult to accept this approach. I'm totally open to discussion and learning on all of this. This is my current perspective and being honest sharing my journey. Which I know some will automatically say "don't believe anything that someone drinking still says!". Nothing I can do about your beliefs. But I know my experience and been to Dr.s and one outpatient program about 7 years ago (my choosing).
To suggest that "it'll be a bigger problem in the future" isn't true either. I understand your motivation to try to spark people into action but it can't be via fear. It has to be motivation from within. In my situation that was NOT the case that it got to be a bigger problem in the future. Infact, I drink less now in terms of amount and the % alcohol then I did 4-5 years ago!
My point is that there are folks that fall in between. I agree is a fine distinction and one to definately DO something about. In the end, its about leading a more fulfilling life and not drinking daily (or having any dependency...including chocolate!) is key.
So lets keep positive that people CAN find their own way and there is hope! Empowering people to find their own path and take ownership for it is key depending on their journey. Being honest with yourself is key as well as getting professional help.
So lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
I suggest that those with 'alcohol issues' are not all 'alcoholics' as typically defined. Is it possible there are those that fall somewhere in between. (EG. it has not progressed, we don't black out, we can stop at 2 (if we choose), don't binge, or need to drink when I wake up in the morning etc)? We aren't drinking at the level where physical dependence is there. BUT its more of a psychological/habit then anything else. Just like some that like to have candy or ice cream everyday...along those lines. I don't want to minimize that alcohol is a drug and toxic. It is! But like eating too much saturated fat everyday, its not a good thing. Having a few drinks/day is also not a good thing, although in a number of cultures (e.g. Italy, Spain, France) it'd be fine!
In my situation my goal is NOT abstinence. This is the big distinction. So my goals are different. I'm not a drunk or alcoholic as defined. But I DO want a lifestyle change to not drink daily. My initial objective was to reduce consumption, and be more conscious about what I was doing, and do that consistently. This I've done over the last week +. Yeah!
My GOAL is to not drink daily and fall within the DrinkWise guidelines for women. No more than 9/week and 3/night. Because it is a psychological issue I need counselling to support this behaviour change. I don't have in place quite yet but am happy at my progress at reducing 2/night (almost half of where I was)! Can we celebrate here. I see few applauding that.
Perhaps for folks like me who fall in between somewhere, we're better to go into a Moderation Management forum or another forum? Most folks here are on a total abstinence program which makes it difficult to accept this approach. I'm totally open to discussion and learning on all of this. This is my current perspective and being honest sharing my journey. Which I know some will automatically say "don't believe anything that someone drinking still says!". Nothing I can do about your beliefs. But I know my experience and been to Dr.s and one outpatient program about 7 years ago (my choosing).
To suggest that "it'll be a bigger problem in the future" isn't true either. I understand your motivation to try to spark people into action but it can't be via fear. It has to be motivation from within. In my situation that was NOT the case that it got to be a bigger problem in the future. Infact, I drink less now in terms of amount and the % alcohol then I did 4-5 years ago!
My point is that there are folks that fall in between. I agree is a fine distinction and one to definately DO something about. In the end, its about leading a more fulfilling life and not drinking daily (or having any dependency...including chocolate!) is key.
So lets keep positive that people CAN find their own way and there is hope! Empowering people to find their own path and take ownership for it is key depending on their journey. Being honest with yourself is key as well as getting professional help.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,435
Tapering never worked for me over 20 years - I'd keep moving the goalposts...and never quite cut back to nothing.
In 5 years I've yet to see anyone here be successful in their tapering - tapering being the regular dropping of alcohol intake down to nothing according to a definite plan - and then not picking it up again.
This stuff can get people in real trouble. I wish you well in whatever you're trying to do Chaikado - but please don't call it tapering - because it's not.
D
In 5 years I've yet to see anyone here be successful in their tapering - tapering being the regular dropping of alcohol intake down to nothing according to a definite plan - and then not picking it up again.
This stuff can get people in real trouble. I wish you well in whatever you're trying to do Chaikado - but please don't call it tapering - because it's not.
D
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Seas
Posts: 55
Yes it is tapering Dee but respectfully suggest that you don't have the definition of 'tapering' cornered! That's silly. It is tapering because I'm tapering off from not drinking on a daily basis. I think you are splitting hairs here. My purpose for "tapering" is to shift to a healthier lifestyle.
It may not meet your definition but you'll have to accept mine because it is what it is.
I WILL be the first success story and will be happy to post it all from beginning to end here. You should be happy for people to have this kind of hope in their lives? Let's keep the hope and belief in miracles alive!
It may not meet your definition but you'll have to accept mine because it is what it is.
I WILL be the first success story and will be happy to post it all from beginning to end here. You should be happy for people to have this kind of hope in their lives? Let's keep the hope and belief in miracles alive!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,435
it's not splitting hairs and it isn't tapering Chaikado
what you posted originally...you wanted to stop drinking and you were scared of withdrawal....that was tapering...
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3372486
you've changed the game ...you're talking about cutting back/moderation now - which incidentally happens to a lot of us when we discover we can control our intake...for a little while.
It's a bit cheeky of you to claim a success....but that's your call.
I wish you success - I really do...I hope that you're not a drinker like me...I'd be pleased if you can come back in 6 months and tell me you're happy with your drinking....
I think you might at least admit that you've completely changed your objective tho....and I really think you should ask yourself exactly why that is....
D
what you posted originally...you wanted to stop drinking and you were scared of withdrawal....that was tapering...
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3372486
you've changed the game ...you're talking about cutting back/moderation now - which incidentally happens to a lot of us when we discover we can control our intake...for a little while.
It's a bit cheeky of you to claim a success....but that's your call.
I wish you success - I really do...I hope that you're not a drinker like me...I'd be pleased if you can come back in 6 months and tell me you're happy with your drinking....
I think you might at least admit that you've completely changed your objective tho....and I really think you should ask yourself exactly why that is....
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,308
Chakaido,
I think your suggestion of going to another site for drinkers who are trying to moderate their drinking was a good one.
I think giving people hope that they can one day drink moderately is missing the point here.
I never want to drink moderately.
Cheers
caiHong
I think your suggestion of going to another site for drinkers who are trying to moderate their drinking was a good one.
I think giving people hope that they can one day drink moderately is missing the point here.
I never want to drink moderately.
Cheers
caiHong
Sober Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I found your thread entitled “Day 3 Tapering”. Tapering (failing another explanation of the term on a forum like this) typically refers to an attempt to stop drinking entirely by gradually reducing the amount you consume. This was not clear in your thread and could be misleading to a lot of folks here, (if you do not state that your goal is just to get to a certain lower level of consumption). If alcohol is not a problem, it’s not a problem. GREAT! Does seem a bit odd though to post when there is not much of a problem. Sincere best wishes to you, and I hope your drinking becomes completely problem free.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Seas
Posts: 55
Wow --- interesting reaction when someone actually has success in reducing its like it doesn't fit the model you have about how those with drinking issues *should* be.
No Awuh-- tapering didn't mean stop drinking completely. It mean reducing to get a clear head and shift my daily pattern.
Dee-- not sure why you want to be argumentative here as I'm trying to take positive action in my recovery? Its like you're goading me on here and want to see me fail. Is this considered trolling even? This is kinda weird. Is this just my response or do others read this as well?
And why are you calling this a game? Its not a game in my books.
When I said I wanted to "stop" I meant stop my daily drinking. It was never intended as total abstinence. I'm sorry if you or others misread that. I had always planned to taper, then take a period off of not drinking (perhaps) but the end goal is to interrupt my lifestyle to not drink daily. Its that simple.
If you're trying to push me out of this community, you're doing a good job. But not nice Dee.
No Awuh-- tapering didn't mean stop drinking completely. It mean reducing to get a clear head and shift my daily pattern.
Dee-- not sure why you want to be argumentative here as I'm trying to take positive action in my recovery? Its like you're goading me on here and want to see me fail. Is this considered trolling even? This is kinda weird. Is this just my response or do others read this as well?
And why are you calling this a game? Its not a game in my books.
When I said I wanted to "stop" I meant stop my daily drinking. It was never intended as total abstinence. I'm sorry if you or others misread that. I had always planned to taper, then take a period off of not drinking (perhaps) but the end goal is to interrupt my lifestyle to not drink daily. Its that simple.
If you're trying to push me out of this community, you're doing a good job. But not nice Dee.
instant
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,711
We all have to learn. I was fluctuating for years, at times thinking I was normal/heavy, problem, in denial drinker or an ambivalent alcoholic with no plan or squeezing for options etc etc etc. Up and down, recording AFDs (alcohol free days) etc. I forgot the periods of abstience, health and fitness kicks.
It all got me to where I am, nearly 12 months sober, grateful to be free of the whole thing.
As for 'high functioning' , I always was. Now I am moved up to a new level and no longer have to hide my fear and shame. Alcohol was holding me back and I was to afraid to let go. I am so glad I did.
It all got me to where I am, nearly 12 months sober, grateful to be free of the whole thing.
As for 'high functioning' , I always was. Now I am moved up to a new level and no longer have to hide my fear and shame. Alcohol was holding me back and I was to afraid to let go. I am so glad I did.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Amen Instant --
alcohol is holding me back as well due to the daily drinking, so want to rid myself of that. No need for it but its a psychological pattern/habit at a low level, but not what I want in my life.
Yes we all have our own journey and its key to find out own path out. I am very surprised with how unsupportive people are being though. How inspiring is that?
alcohol is holding me back as well due to the daily drinking, so want to rid myself of that. No need for it but its a psychological pattern/habit at a low level, but not what I want in my life.
Yes we all have our own journey and its key to find out own path out. I am very surprised with how unsupportive people are being though. How inspiring is that?
Sober Alcoholic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Well I take it back. Just read the post that Dee was referring to and this is a quote from you.
This is what I was speaking about in this OP of this thread. Changing the goals. You're not alone in this Chakido! This is not an attack. This is just pointing out what alcohol does to US.
Originally Posted by Chakaido 
This is tapering off to get my mind clear, get stronger to stay quit, and get help to stay off for good!
instant
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,711
Everybody is where they are. On balance everyone does the best they can at the time. We are all working through stuff.
I do not regard alcohol use as a soley psychological habit. Even though I did not have a severe withdrawal, I am of the view that the biological withdrawal has a very long tail.
Alcohol is addictive, the more you use the more you are likely to use and the harder it will be to stop. IMHO
I do not regard alcohol use as a soley psychological habit. Even though I did not have a severe withdrawal, I am of the view that the biological withdrawal has a very long tail.
Alcohol is addictive, the more you use the more you are likely to use and the harder it will be to stop. IMHO
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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I did write that quickly the first night when I was still under the influence of 5-6 that night! But my intention was to taper to no drinks during week only.
The goals had NEVER changed. Sorry that I could have been clearer and didn't that night. Which is the reason to reduce.
Now I'm getting a PM that I'm condoning drinking and that's against the forum rules. So am I not allowed to talk about tapering/reduction here? I'm confused.
I'm scared I'm going to get kicked off of the forum for sharing my experience here and that I'm a threat somehow to others? If I am let me know and I'll leave everyone.
Thanks for pointing this out though. Its provided me clarity on my goal and an opportunity to clarify what my original intention was.
The goals had NEVER changed. Sorry that I could have been clearer and didn't that night. Which is the reason to reduce.
Now I'm getting a PM that I'm condoning drinking and that's against the forum rules. So am I not allowed to talk about tapering/reduction here? I'm confused.
I'm scared I'm going to get kicked off of the forum for sharing my experience here and that I'm a threat somehow to others? If I am let me know and I'll leave everyone.
Thanks for pointing this out though. Its provided me clarity on my goal and an opportunity to clarify what my original intention was.
So it goes
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,620
I remember a quote on this site a few months back
"I liked the taste of mountain spring water too....But I never went out and drank a case of it."
Sapling said it, I copied it down cos I loved it so much
Tapering wont work, because we all drink not because we savour the earthy blackberry echo with the sweet overlay of lemons in a Chateau Lafitte 1962, we drink because it makes us drunk. Therefore every time we pick up a drink we will want more
As soon as I understood that, I realised I can never taper. , and having come to that realisation, no drink doesnt bother me.
"I liked the taste of mountain spring water too....But I never went out and drank a case of it."
Sapling said it, I copied it down cos I loved it so much
Tapering wont work, because we all drink not because we savour the earthy blackberry echo with the sweet overlay of lemons in a Chateau Lafitte 1962, we drink because it makes us drunk. Therefore every time we pick up a drink we will want more
As soon as I understood that, I realised I can never taper. , and having come to that realisation, no drink doesnt bother me.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Seas
Posts: 55
Obviously tapering is a bad word around here. I won't use it anymore. You've all beat me into submission. Its ok I'm used to abuse!
With that said, my goal has always been to drink within the DrinkWise program so thought reducing would be my path to doing that. I have no problem stopping at 2 or 3 so this has been my plan. Now its getting some support.
But I am concerned that I can't talk about reducing my consumption here without it being percieved as me condoning drinking which I have been referred to tonight as against the forum rules. Is it triggering to people or something? I don't understand . :-(
With that said, my goal has always been to drink within the DrinkWise program so thought reducing would be my path to doing that. I have no problem stopping at 2 or 3 so this has been my plan. Now its getting some support.
But I am concerned that I can't talk about reducing my consumption here without it being percieved as me condoning drinking which I have been referred to tonight as against the forum rules. Is it triggering to people or something? I don't understand . :-(
So it goes
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,620
Hi Chakaido, generally the mods dont like people condoning drinking , for the simple reason that we have all had a problem with it.
If you can successfully taper, and live a good life, then you are lucky and I wish you well (everybody else will as well, I have no truck with people who can drink sensibly, Ms Billy can , I cant, so I dont). I like sitting next to friendly drunks, they can be funny. I worked in a bar one year, never drank then, and listening to the stories was fun. We got good and bad drunks there though.
Generally if you do taper then you dont need the site, as there isnt the support and understanding to guide you through that, for the reasons above, we dont drink, so it is something we cant comment on.
Billy
If you can successfully taper, and live a good life, then you are lucky and I wish you well (everybody else will as well, I have no truck with people who can drink sensibly, Ms Billy can , I cant, so I dont). I like sitting next to friendly drunks, they can be funny. I worked in a bar one year, never drank then, and listening to the stories was fun. We got good and bad drunks there though.
Generally if you do taper then you dont need the site, as there isnt the support and understanding to guide you through that, for the reasons above, we dont drink, so it is something we cant comment on.
Billy
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Posts: 55
Thanks for being open about it Billy.
I'd rather that then people try to publicly shame me, knock me down, be critical and tell me a million reasons why it won't work. How is that a supportive fellowship? This is the reason I never went back to AA ---people were very judgemental that it had to be the Big Book way or no way at all. But we're not all drunks! I've never been diagnosed as an alcoholic but just came by here a week ago to get some insight and education.
So you're narrowing the community on the website here to a specific group you feel comfortable supporting vs. opening it up to people at various stages of learning and recovery or moderation.
It was my FIRST attempt to reach out back to the recovery community in a while. Maybe it needs to be clearer that this community does NOT support people interested in harm reduction or moderation management. Or maybe it is somewhere but I missed it?
A gentle suggestion of a few different forums via PM was all that was needed vs. this approach.
I'd rather that then people try to publicly shame me, knock me down, be critical and tell me a million reasons why it won't work. How is that a supportive fellowship? This is the reason I never went back to AA ---people were very judgemental that it had to be the Big Book way or no way at all. But we're not all drunks! I've never been diagnosed as an alcoholic but just came by here a week ago to get some insight and education.
So you're narrowing the community on the website here to a specific group you feel comfortable supporting vs. opening it up to people at various stages of learning and recovery or moderation.
It was my FIRST attempt to reach out back to the recovery community in a while. Maybe it needs to be clearer that this community does NOT support people interested in harm reduction or moderation management. Or maybe it is somewhere but I missed it?
A gentle suggestion of a few different forums via PM was all that was needed vs. this approach.
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Originally Posted by Chakaido
This is the reason I never went back to AA ---people were very judgemental that it had to be the Big Book way or no way at all.
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