CaiHong

Whiteknuckles,

I really think it is much more difficult to get sober in a relationship than on your own and I admire people who can get though it, more power to them.
You stopped for a good reason don't lose sight of that.
It seems like you have allowed people to take advantage of you for a long time. I used to do that but now that the worm has turned I have no problem telling people no this s not acceptable I am living life on my terms with the guidance of my HP which resides in my gut somewhere.

I am over 10 months sober and looking back I can see how crazy I was. It takes time for the alcohol to really get out of your body. I realize now I was till under the influence in the truest meaning, months down the track.

I feel really lucky and grateful that I finally came to the realization that alcohol was making my life hell. the trade off been well to my advantage.

Sorry to say the 6 pack on the weekend counts. The last 2 weekends before I truly gave up I was having nearly 2 bottles of rice wine, downing them Sunday noght so I could zonk out, go to bed and not mess up.
that was not the answer.

Keep close to us here on the forum
CaiHong

amy55

Hey there again White Knuckles. We can do this together. I am not completely over it, yet I want to be. I am now 5'2, weigh 123. I have gone up to 160. I heard my dads voice in my head for many many years, only to be replaced by my X's voice.

I started drinking heavily bc there was nothing I could do that was right. I was one of these people who always had to please another person. Well, you know what, you can't do that with people who hate themselves.

I left my X on 12/31/2008. Moved in with friends. My friends bought their new place 2 years before they were going to move there permentally. I painted the entire house for them. I took care of their ill and sickly father, Was never requested of me. I did it bc I wanted to.

Yes, I drank the entire time while doing this, but the point is, they never put me down, never made me feel like I owed them anything. They actually like "me". They liked "me" more than I did. I didn't need to "make" them like me. I didn't need to "proove" that I was likeable. They loved me for the person that I was.

I didn't know how to deal with that. I really didn't.

Someone just liking "me"? Unheard of, couldn't figure it out, thought and thought about this, it drove me crazy. Why would they like me?

Finally figured it out, it was bc they didn't hate themselves. Weird, huh, who would have figured?

Now I am still what getting along in life, but even though I have doubts about myself, I know now that only a person who is not happy with themself if someone who might lash at me, and I know that I don't deserve it. No one does.

I went there and developed an attitude, that if I felt that I could do something, that nothing was going to hold me back, I would it.

Their father passed away last year, he was 90. I have moved on myself. Bought my own house, but whenever I get down about myself, I just need to call them, and what I hear from them, is that their dad knows that I can do it, that I can do anything.

Somewhat disjointed convo here, needs more explanation. But hope that you got the jist of it.

AlwaysGrowing

Is this really a distraction/deflection of blame? What are YOU doing? Next question after your answer is, are you telling the truth?

With Love
AG

Pojman

All I would like to say is - There are two sides to every story. Sometimes the "sobriety" thing gives us an easy "high road" to take over the spouse. Although sobriety is a wonderful thing, it should not give us an elevated feeling of moral supremacy.

One thing I have found that is true for every divorce that I have witnessed is that the idea of leaving is always an option. If leaving your spouse is not an option, then it will not happen. If leaving a spouse is an option on the table, it will happen.

One of the laws of mathematics is - Over a long enough period of time, all options that follow the laws of nature will eventually take place.

No one should encourage an individual to leave their marriage, or give moral support to anyone that is considering leaving their marriage, unless there is some form of true physical abuse happening.

Whiteknuckles, I hope that you find a better solution to your problem that does not involve breaking the vows of your marriage.

I also want to address the statement that you made saying "I dont even know this man anymore, I never would have married a man like this"

Changing is a natural part of life. No one will be the same after 20 years. Growing apart is the fault of both individuals. I am sure that you are just as much different to your husband, as he is different to you.

The focus should be on getting to know each other again. If you are both good people, and want good things for each other, you can work it out. If there is no hard abuse, or otherwise illegal activity happening in your relationship, you need to be there for each other. That is what marriage is all about.

Lily

White knuckles...I am sorry you are feeling this way. I am glad you are doing better w/ your drinking, but I will say that before I got COMPLETELY sober, I had quite a bit of self hatred going on in my life. It really is true when we say we give people permission to treat us how they do.

See, the only person we really can work on and change us US. Also the only thing we have control over is our REACTION to others. Our attitudes, etc.

I really think you should try AA. Start counting your sober days, get a sponsor who can guide you thru the steps. Stuff like powerlessness, resentments, acceptance, etc. After you are able to get some time under your belt and not replace it w/ other substances, then you will gain the self respect and realize that no longer do you need to live to please others, but only GOD and then in pleasing HIM you will be respecting yourself and others.

Hang in there!

Blessings, Lily

MentalLoop

WhiteKnuckles - it seems there are few of us who believe that a) until the liquor is completely gone from you, it is still premature to declare victory in sobriety and the path to correction, and b) don't be quick to judge or view your hubby's actions with your current frame of mind. There is a reason people say don't do anything drastic in your first year of sobriety with respect to relationships, etc. It's because we are still looking through beer goggles and have a lot of cleansing and self reflection to do. I am not going to comment on your abuse, being put down or otherwise, because frankly i have no basis to judge. But I will share something with you that happened to me this weekend, that really threw me off my rocker.

By any stretch of the imagination, I am the patriarch of my family - including my immediate family, and nuclear family (brother's / mother). Although I have always been known to be firm and on the "straight and narrow", I am usually the one consulted with for financial matters, health matters, purchasing decisions, etc. Last week, while I was in San Diego, my mother had a suitcase fall on her toe and break it. Now get this: She called my wife (who was in Vancouver), then my father-in-law (yup, my wife's father) to take her to the hospital. All this happened, and I didn't know a thing. My brother is visiting from Kuwait, who I saw this weekend and asked me how my mother was doing (she lives 5miles from my house). I of course had no idea what he was talking about. Once it all came to light, I confronted my wife pretty angrily - I MEAN, HOW DO YOU NOT TELL SOMEBODY THIS HAPPENS TO THEIR MOTHER?

In my sobriety, instead of continue on my tirade, it dawned on me. No sane normal person would keep this information from a son......UNLESS.....there was something about that son that made it not conducive to share with. In fact, if I am honest, it is true. I have mommy issues of 37 years which have not been dealt with. To this day, if my mother does anything related to my wife and/or kids, I get super annoyed, and by exuded aura, let people know I am not happy. My wife didn't want to cause me stress, and couldn't in good conscience leave my mother to fend for herself - so she called her dad and dealt with the issue. WHO WAS THE ASS HERE? ME!

My point - at the end of the day, your husband may be the ass too. But as you evolve in your sobriety, question everything, and start with yourself. Call it step zero (a buddy explained this to me). I can give you 5 plausible reasons why your husband acted the way he did. Although none may justify it as appropriate behavior, they at least give you context as to the lack of venom in his actions. For example - maybe he has been hugely resentful of your drinking for the last 20 years...really beaten down. Maybe seeing you hanging with his brother who was hammered, only made him insecure in the fact that you will continue in your sober efforts. Maybe he has deep rooted anger with his family and liquor, and having the combination of you and them together in a "drunk" environment had a virulent reaction inside.

Nothing I am suggesting is to say that he shouldn't be supportive and loving, and respect you for all your amazing qualities. What I am saying is that he has had 20 years of drunk damage, and maybe countless more stemming from his family (or if he is like me, he may have issues with his family that have nothing to do with you or liqour, but put him in a sour mood). One of the things that has really worked for my wife and I, is that instead of sharing with (or in addition to) others (like on this forum), as I go through reflective periods i share with her what was going through my mind at that given moment in time. Half the time I come to realize how I may have created the bad setting, the other half the time, I share with her behavior that I don't appreciate of hers, that I may have taken for granted while drunk - but doesn't really feel good while I am sober and can feel.

My recommendation - communicate as much as you can, don't be so persecutive (but be honest), self reflect and don't do anything drastic. If you see no improvement while TOTALLY sober in the next several months, then think about more permanent adjustments.

wheresthefun

Good stuff, MentalLoop.

Can I just add?

"Whenever two people meet, there are really six people present. There is each man as he sees himself, each man as the other person sees him, and each man as he really is." - William James

The whole truth of any situation, is rarely the way any one person sees it.

WhiteKnuckles

Lots of good feedback here...thank you....to answer a question that has been posed by more than one person…and it is a fair question. What could I be doing wrong here? Well I know I am not perfect, but I really do try. And I put a lot of thought into how I treat him, and how I come across. I do not feel that he does the same with me. A large part of his irritability, I believe, is repressed resentment towards me for being a drunken mess for so much of our marriage, but then again, for most of that time, he was drinking too. I guess the difference I am seeing is, I have always accepted him, flaws and all, and I do not feel that I get that same acceptance from him. To tell you the truth, I think he would be happier with someone besides me. And maybe if that is true, it doesn't do a lot of good to play the blame game, he either loves me for who I am, or he does not. And I have spent most of my marriage feeling like maybe I didn't deserve to be treated well because of my drinking, but now I am thinking that is just a bunch of baloney. It would be nice, for once in my life, just to have someone throw their arms around me and tell me they are here with me and I am going to be okay. I have NEVER had that, not even with my parents. Now that I am sobering up I crave acceptance and affection, two things I do not get. I don't think that is dishonest or too much to expect. It is exactly how I feel. Why should I be the only one who has to change? Just because he isn't an alcoholic, doesn't mean he shouldn't have to work on some things too.

WhiteKnuckles

And on a more positive note, I should add that last night was very nice and relaxing. No drama or anything. I worked late and came home and watched TV and read and had a normal conversation with my hubby. We actually enjoyed each other's company. He was kinder and gentler last night, I needed that.

Anna

So, maybe last night could be the beginning of a positive change in the relationship. But, when you have expectations, things can tend to go wrong, so I think it's better to be open and caring and see what happens. Try to be patient if you can and see if things begin to change.

WhiteKnuckles

Very good advice Anna, thank you

Amy2011

At the end of my drinking my husband had a lot of anger towards me and my drinking. It took many months once I entered recovery for the healing process to start to repair our relationship. When I was actively drinking I blamed him for all the problems in our marriage and for my drinking. When I was drinking I didn't take responsibility for my actions and I played the victim. Once I entered recovery I began to accept responsibility for my actions, for my drinking, and accept that I too had contributed to the sad state of my marriage. My alcoholism affected my husband and my children. Once I entered recovery I began to heal, but so did my family. When I was actively drinking my perception of the situation was clouded. Thank goodness for AA, a program of recovery that works for me. I think if you find a program of recovery, commit to it, and follow through on it everything else will fall into place with time. Nothing changes if nothing changes. For me nothing could change as long as I was still drinking. Best of luck.

workingknee

WhiteKnuckles - I think you probably just need to focus on stopping drinking 6 beers a week!!?? Maybe focus on the positives too, like how great its going to be for your children, when you yourself are happy, sober, eating healthy, exercising - perhaps your husband will follow the lead. I.e - be the change you want to see in the world.

Good Luck!

littlefish

Congratulations on cutting down white knuckles, but...I am going to have to use the word but here, but until you eliminate alcohol completely, you are not going to experience complete sobriety. These aren't empty words, I speak from experience. I was in and out of sobriety, I would string a few days together and then drink.
It was like visiting paradise, and then I'd have to pack my bags and go back to hell again.
A couple of things in your post jump out at me:
I can relate to that because my profile as an alcoholic is being a victim and a martyr. In your first post you mention accepting the unfair demand to cook dinner at your MIL's despite being invited as a guest. You don't have to do stuff like that. In recovery, I learned that I didn't have to be a martyr.
Out of habit, it's obvious your husband is on board for that program. but, you might ask yourself as I had to do: how much of it is your doing? I worked very hard to be martyr: I really had to manipulate people into treating me less kindly.
You didn't want to get onto the merry go round. You didn't have to.
It clearly sounds that your path of recovery is going to be breaking those old habits of being the victim, standing up for your rights and learning to say no.

You might be surprised that people including your husband will respect you more for standing up for yourself.

It sounds like neither of you have a program. I would highly recommend a program for both of you. If he is not the alcoholic, and it sounds like he isn't, he could really benefit from alanon, because I wouldn't doubt that he is into some major codie behavior.
And what about you? Any program?