Celebrating failure....why
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
why not make 'big plan day' today 6palms?
Isn't holding off just playing to your AV?
I was going to wait until my birthday too - but my body had other ideas - when my birthday did roll around I was some months sober and it was one of the best ever
D
Isn't holding off just playing to your AV?
I was going to wait until my birthday too - but my body had other ideas - when my birthday did roll around I was some months sober and it was one of the best ever
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 53
Dee,
Your point is well taken...I re-read the RR book today and one point that stood out is that if you're not ready to commit to the big plan then don't jump too early. If the bday was a month out then I think I would just commit, however with it being just 6 days away, I think that the remembrance of the day is significant for me. I am not going crazy for the last week, and I'm still practicing the av recognition...
I look forward to posting my success beyond
day 6!
Your point is well taken...I re-read the RR book today and one point that stood out is that if you're not ready to commit to the big plan then don't jump too early. If the bday was a month out then I think I would just commit, however with it being just 6 days away, I think that the remembrance of the day is significant for me. I am not going crazy for the last week, and I'm still practicing the av recognition...
I look forward to posting my success beyond
day 6!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,071
Originally Posted by 6palms 
Your point is well taken...I re-read the RR book today and one point that stood out is that if you're not ready to commit to the big plan then don't jump too early. If the bday was a month out then I think I would just commit, however with it being just 6 days away, I think that the remembrance of the day is significant for me. I am not going crazy for the last week, and I'm still practicing the av recognition...
Best of luck to you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 282
No Dee, he drank on day 6 when he started this thread now he's gonna drink till his birthday.
I agree, u have to be ready 6palms. Birthday is a good new beginning. Just don't go crazy cos it's your last hurrah! Like someone said on here, no one plans on killing themselves by drinking so be careful. Every time I thought one last time, I drank more than ever!
I had one of the best birthdays ever this year when I was 6 weeks sober!
I agree, u have to be ready 6palms. Birthday is a good new beginning. Just don't go crazy cos it's your last hurrah! Like someone said on here, no one plans on killing themselves by drinking so be careful. Every time I thought one last time, I drank more than ever!
I had one of the best birthdays ever this year when I was 6 weeks sober!
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
You're not a failure until you stop trying. Most people don't learn to ride a bicycle or learn to ski right away. Some fall more that others before they get it down. The fact is that it takes most people several tries before they learn to totally change your life around.
dopeless hope fiend
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here. Now.
Posts: 1,021
Yes, relapsers should be scolded and given 10 lashes! because guilt and shame is something they know nothing about and a dose of it from us will surely set them straight!
Yes, forums like this and 12 Step meetings are probably the only place in the world where you get a standing ovation for acknowledging that you're ruining your own life. And thank goodness for that! When I was still battling my addiction I had everyone in my life telling me what I was doing wrong, asking me why the hell I couldn't just stop, angry, fed up, hostile. they were justified in their ignorance but you know what? it made me hate myself even more. I felt hopeless and wanted to die the worthless s.o.b. that we all thought I was.
I desperately needed the empathy and compassion that I found from addicts in recovery. it gave me hope. it taught me that I can do this and that there are people out there that believe in me even when I don't. without that I shudder to think about my prospects in early recovery.
there is a distinction between compassion and empathy and enabling. we applaud those who come back ready to put forth the effort again because we have been there. we know that profound confusion and pain. and many don't get the chance to come back. they die. they commit suicide. they end up in jail or prison or a mental institution. these are all realities. while it has changed a lot over the years the world does not understand us. if we don't love and support eachother who the hell will?
Yes, forums like this and 12 Step meetings are probably the only place in the world where you get a standing ovation for acknowledging that you're ruining your own life. And thank goodness for that! When I was still battling my addiction I had everyone in my life telling me what I was doing wrong, asking me why the hell I couldn't just stop, angry, fed up, hostile. they were justified in their ignorance but you know what? it made me hate myself even more. I felt hopeless and wanted to die the worthless s.o.b. that we all thought I was.
I desperately needed the empathy and compassion that I found from addicts in recovery. it gave me hope. it taught me that I can do this and that there are people out there that believe in me even when I don't. without that I shudder to think about my prospects in early recovery.
there is a distinction between compassion and empathy and enabling. we applaud those who come back ready to put forth the effort again because we have been there. we know that profound confusion and pain. and many don't get the chance to come back. they die. they commit suicide. they end up in jail or prison or a mental institution. these are all realities. while it has changed a lot over the years the world does not understand us. if we don't love and support eachother who the hell will?
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 609
We want to keep encouraging people who have the gumption to come back and make the admission that they fell through. It's not saying that relapses are okay or not serious. We all start recovery with good intentions, and then many of us find there's a lot more involved in it than we first anticipated. It took me awhile to find the right balance. This is a difficult disease, and no two people have a recovery that is exactly the same.
I'm blessed now to have two years recovery, but keep trying to remember what it was like for me in the early days, and avoid judging others.
I'm blessed now to have two years recovery, but keep trying to remember what it was like for me in the early days, and avoid judging others.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 471
I have learned so much from the people here, and if I hadn't been welcomed back with compassion, I would have never come back and would never have learned everything I have. I've relapsed a few times, but I continued reading and learning what I needed to be doing. If people were harsh to me, I would probably still be drinking and thinking I was a piece of crap. It has been the people here on SR that finally made me believe in myself again... they made me realize that I really could stop drinking and enjoy a sober life.
...not falling down them
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by 6palms
Thank you for all the responses...based in your feedback I understand that : when we welcome folks back it is a celebration that they are still "in the fight" and are still working towards recovery. Got it.
Actually love the information and caring attitude on this site...wasn't trying to p!ss every1 off ( but i apparently was successful in doing so none-the-less
)
Big Plan day is 4/2....46th birthday....
. Actually love the information and caring attitude on this site...wasn't trying to p!ss every1 off ( but i apparently was successful in doing so none-the-less
)Big Plan day is 4/2....46th birthday....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 205
I think what the OP was trying to say is when there is going to be such a welcome party..then why ever truly stop? You don't need to point fingers, lots of people that obviously aren't ready to quit yet, but why post here? Thats what I wonder when I see those posts.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Here and there
Posts: 31
Beating people up for relapsing would only create a dishonest environment. Lots of people fail before they get it right. Some of the most successful people I know are successful because of their failures.
I also do not believe that welcome back is celebrating the their failures. That welcoming keeps people trying again until they get it right in their own time. Alcoholics have enough self loathing that they don't need their continued faults or failures pointed out here. I find this site to be a place of healing and completely ignore the nattering nabombs of negativity. This is suppose to be a safe place where people can communicate honestly and openly.
That said, I do not believe there isn't a time and place to give people real honesty and something to think about. Critism can be constructive and promote people to take ownership and real responsibility for their self created problems. I just don't feel the time is when someone is trying to return to sobriety. Isn't the point to help people stay sober?
I also do not believe that welcome back is celebrating the their failures. That welcoming keeps people trying again until they get it right in their own time. Alcoholics have enough self loathing that they don't need their continued faults or failures pointed out here. I find this site to be a place of healing and completely ignore the nattering nabombs of negativity. This is suppose to be a safe place where people can communicate honestly and openly.
That said, I do not believe there isn't a time and place to give people real honesty and something to think about. Critism can be constructive and promote people to take ownership and real responsibility for their self created problems. I just don't feel the time is when someone is trying to return to sobriety. Isn't the point to help people stay sober?
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Since the word 'relapse' is being thrown around indiscriminately in this thread, it is worth noting that people with cancer have relapses, whereas people who get drunk again have drinks.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,193
Hi 6Palms. Along the lines of maybe you wanting to be given a swift kick in the butt for your relapse (I'm summarizing what some other posters have said), I heard something at an AA meeting tonight that perhaps might help you. (In my opinion it is not specific to AA but could work with any recovery program/tools, including SR).
He said that his sponsor was ex military like him and was very hard-a#$ed about what he needed to do, and not letting up on him, etc. He said he needed that because it was what he was used to (he was ex military too) and essentially he didn't like to be coddled or babied or pitied... he needed tough love and strict direction and all of that. Another woman shared that her sponsor was very kind and patient, and that's what she needed, because otherwise she would have been scared away and perhaps not have returned to the program for a long time if ever.
Another person said, you see, "like attracts like"... if someone is used to tough love they will want a sponsor who is tough love, and if someone is more gentle and accommodating then they will likely attract the same. (I myself needed a sponsor who wouldn't pressure me and one who was not religious because I'm not religious... and I found her.)
Another person said that it was our Higher Powers who gave us what/who we needed at that time... this is more spiritual and in line with AA so you can take it or leave it, for what it's worth (I am still grasping the higher power concept myself, as an agnostic, and I know not everyone is into AA/higher power talk), but I'm just trying to give you the context and say I think it's pretty cool that there are all types of recovering alcoholics out there who can lend us the support we need in a way that we need it. I have seen posts on SR where people complain that other members are TOO tough-love-ish and not "understanding" or "supportive" enough, and now yours saying the opposite... I guess it's all a matter of perspective and needs, but in the end I am really grateful SR is here and I know you are too, and I would just encourage you to seek out what you yourself need... you are likely to find it here because there are so many of us.
For instance, Sapling said to email him if you want a dose of tough love (I believe it was Sapling, and something along those lines). Terminally Unique is helping you with the AVT stuff that seems to be what helps you. So just let us know what you need support-wise and I think your needs will be met... in fact I think it is easier to receive a request for more tough love than a request for more hand-holding/"support" in continuing to drink.
On that note, I have to say... it seems very odd/pretty much ironic to me that you say we should not be "celebrating" relapses but then it also seems you want us to condone your continuing to drink when you know you have a problem and don't want to be drinking?? Is this too a cry for tough love? I am just trying to understand. I for one welcome someone back who has re-committed themselves to not drinking much more heartily than I welcome someone who is "back," as in, drinking when they don't want to be or know they shouldn't. But I have been both and I am so grateful for SR and all the help I've received here, people have helped me when I was drinking and helped me when I wanted to get sober again, and now I have been sober for nearly 5 months and I am really grateful for SR support (and AA support) in whatever way I have gotten it! Best wishes 6Palms.
He said that his sponsor was ex military like him and was very hard-a#$ed about what he needed to do, and not letting up on him, etc. He said he needed that because it was what he was used to (he was ex military too) and essentially he didn't like to be coddled or babied or pitied... he needed tough love and strict direction and all of that. Another woman shared that her sponsor was very kind and patient, and that's what she needed, because otherwise she would have been scared away and perhaps not have returned to the program for a long time if ever.
Another person said, you see, "like attracts like"... if someone is used to tough love they will want a sponsor who is tough love, and if someone is more gentle and accommodating then they will likely attract the same. (I myself needed a sponsor who wouldn't pressure me and one who was not religious because I'm not religious... and I found her.
) Another person said that it was our Higher Powers who gave us what/who we needed at that time... this is more spiritual and in line with AA so you can take it or leave it, for what it's worth (I am still grasping the higher power concept myself, as an agnostic, and I know not everyone is into AA/higher power talk), but I'm just trying to give you the context and say I think it's pretty cool that there are all types of recovering alcoholics out there who can lend us the support we need in a way that we need it. I have seen posts on SR where people complain that other members are TOO tough-love-ish and not "understanding" or "supportive" enough, and now yours saying the opposite... I guess it's all a matter of perspective and needs, but in the end I am really grateful SR is here and I know you are too, and I would just encourage you to seek out what you yourself need... you are likely to find it here because there are so many of us.
For instance, Sapling said to email him if you want a dose of tough love (I believe it was Sapling, and something along those lines). Terminally Unique is helping you with the AVT stuff that seems to be what helps you. So just let us know what you need support-wise and I think your needs will be met... in fact I think it is easier to receive a request for more tough love than a request for more hand-holding/"support" in continuing to drink.
On that note, I have to say... it seems very odd/pretty much ironic to me that you say we should not be "celebrating" relapses but then it also seems you want us to condone your continuing to drink when you know you have a problem and don't want to be drinking?? Is this too a cry for tough love? I am just trying to understand.
I for one welcome someone back who has re-committed themselves to not drinking much more heartily than I welcome someone who is "back," as in, drinking when they don't want to be or know they shouldn't. But I have been both and I am so grateful for SR and all the help I've received here, people have helped me when I was drinking and helped me when I wanted to get sober again, and now I have been sober for nearly 5 months and I am really grateful for SR support (and AA support) in whatever way I have gotten it! Best wishes 6Palms.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,193
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Since the word 'relapse' is being thrown around indiscriminately in this thread, it is worth noting that people with cancer have relapses, whereas people who get drunk again have drinks.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Pigtails
I would say this is a matter of opinion and many people have the opposite opinion of your opinion, and think that alcoholism is a disease and that drinking again is in fact a relapse in that it is a return to the sick condition.
Language affects our perceptions, and our perceptions affect our actions. People may like to believe that 'relapses' just happen, without any conscious thought, but that is simply not the case. That drink didn't pull out the wallet, count the money, and purchase itself, nor did it pour itself down anyone's throat, either. Ditto for the old "I had a slip" line. Getting drunk is like slipping on a banana peel? Really?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Awesome Awesome thread!!
Real love making a real difference in all our real remakable lives.
The Best Way is always LOVE first, and then offering caring questions and our relevant experiences shared later. Yeah.
Real love making a real difference in all our real remakable lives.
The Best Way is always LOVE first, and then offering caring questions and our relevant experiences shared later. Yeah.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Where the sun is always shining
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by sissy07
When I first came to SR last August 10 I was lonely, isolated, sick, really scared and close to suicidal. I laid it on the line for the first time in four years (I have relapsed after 8 years sober and after 9 years sober). I was so afraid, I wanted to say "please someone, tell me I can do this", and to just not feel so alone and worthless. I was on my way off of this planet, and the love, understanding and wisdom I found on SR truly saved my life. I was so fragile (actually, I still am working on that, aren't we all?). And there have been times in this last seven months that I was so afraid of relapse that I got on here and made it through the night without drinking. Maybe I rely on SR too much, I don't know. And I am working on getting f2f help - I am just stuck right now, whatever. Anyway, for all you good souls that have encouraged me, have posted your experience and made me see something I didn't even realize I didn't see, thank you. I know I am not alone in this - I felt as close to worthless and hopeless as I had ever felt when I got on SR. I don't know what I would have done without the support and understanding I got. I love you guys.
DITTO!
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 30
Hmmm "TOUGH LOVE" Not totally against the concept when an abuser is involved. We are all users , but when it crosses over to abusing--tough up!
That might seem like a slippery slope user to abuser, but that is where learning our boundaries come in.
My folks used the tough love approach but were a lot heavier on the Tough than Love.
I'll take all the warm fuzzies I can get from all you peeps,
and back at ya.
That might seem like a slippery slope user to abuser, but that is where learning our boundaries come in.
My folks used the tough love approach but were a lot heavier on the Tough than Love.
I'll take all the warm fuzzies I can get from all you peeps,
and back at ya.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 30
Geez, not very good at writing these days.
By user and abuser I didn't mean drug/alcohol users/abusers, I meant people user/abusers, which of course can involve drugs and alcohol.
Most people on SR are not in total denial about there being some kind of problem. We need to welcome them with open arms--maybe one of the few places they can feel safe. That would be true for me , for now anyway.
By user and abuser I didn't mean drug/alcohol users/abusers, I meant people user/abusers, which of course can involve drugs and alcohol.
Most people on SR are not in total denial about there being some kind of problem. We need to welcome them with open arms--maybe one of the few places they can feel safe. That would be true for me , for now anyway.
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