Nirvana1

I grew up catholic, or should I say was forced to go to catholic church growing up. It was always hard to listen about how "we are not worthy" and "you're a sinner" etc, so I was glad to get away from that when I was able to. I've never considered myself to be atheist or agnostic, but it's hard to grasp what I read in the bible and what I hear at church.

Recently, I've been going to church again and bible study regularly for the past 3 months. What I've noticed is that when I leave church I always feel worse about myself. The pastor will touch on everyday things in life that we do wrong and it really makes me look at myself negatively.

It's the exact opposite of how I feel at an AA meeting. No matter what, I always feel better when I leave a meeting. I don't care how bad it is or what was said in the meeting, it makes me feel better. I can't express how much I relate to "we are not saints" or "progress not perfection" etc.

I was able to choose my own conception of God when I first got sober, began to pray everyday, and have worked hard on my spiritual life these past 15 months sober. Well ever since I've started attending church to try and get closer to God, everything has gotten harder and made me feel worse.

I'm actually reading the bible thoroughly for the first time while attending the bible study. It's hard to explain, but I find myself cringing a lot when certain things are said or subjects of "unworthiness" are brought up. While I do like a lot of what it says, it is getting harder and harder to relate to a lot of what I've been learning. I don't know what's holding me back or what I need to do and it's really taking a toll on me.

I guess I'm wondering how some of you got over your reservations or what you have done when reading the bible, and what helped you truly believe a lot of what is said.

Terminally Unique

I've read the Bible in its entirety several times, but I am atheist, so I can't really help you with trying to believe it. I have seen what you are describing many times in AA, though. Some people can reconcile 12-Steppism with traditional religion, but many cannot, and ultimately end up choosing one or the other.

lara12

Hi Nirvana1. You speak about organised religion. The Programme
talks about a spiritual experience. I was brought up a strict Protestant.
I can seperate this from spiritual reality. Keep going to healthy meetings
and you will find the truth for YOU.

bryangt

I too was raised Catholic and went to church when I was younger. I am also now reading the Bible for the first time. Some of it is hard to believe. Usually before I start reading, I ask my Higher Power to help me to understand what I am about to read. Some of the material sticks with me & makes sense...but some of it is forgotten.

Sapling

I like to go to church to pray...Not so much for the ritual of the whole thing...I just like praying there...And I do get a different feeling walking out of a meeting than I do leaving the church...I guess you could say the meeting is my church...As far as reading the bible..I have a small prayer meditation book that's all taken from the Bible...And the Daily Reflection and 24 Hour Book are my morning readings...The Big Book is my Bible...I can always read that.

2granddaughters

There are lots of priests in AA around here. Ask around your groups and get to meet them, have a one-on-one with them and see how they reconcile their HP and their religion. I'm sure they would be glad to share with you.

Wishing you the best.

Bob R

Pigtails

I think church and recovery groups are two separate things. I'm an atheist/agnostic and many things about AA work for me. Ideally I'd like to believe in a religion but I just can't, it doesn't make sense to me. So my religion is more about living the kind of life I want to live, and being good to myself and others and doing the right thing. That line of thinking is really in line with AA but I've found it's not always in line with religious teachings or practice. Just my opinion. I agree that some religions use a lot of shaming tactics and I think that's wrong. Best wishes in your continued recovery.

doggonecarl

Have you gone to reconciliation? I was away from the church for 30 years and did a lot of drugs, my drinking had got out of hand. I had totally lost my moral compass. So when I returned to the church, I had a lot of guilt for what I did. But the sacrament of confession let me start fresh with God's forgiveness.

As for all the emphasis on unworthyness in the Bible...is it in the book? Is that really the subject of discussion? Or are you bringing it to the table with what's in your heart?

Peace, Nirvana.

Db1105

I was beat up catholic also. I gave both the church, the bible, even the episcapagan churches a shot but there really was nothing there for me. I'm good with no organized religion in my lIfe. AA and the 12 steps meet all my spiritual needs.

Dee74

I was raised a Catholic too Nirvana...still identify as one, although I rarely go to Mass these days.

I think it's possible to focus on the passages that might makes us feel bad, but I think there's a lot more passages that speak about God's eternal love and forgiveness and those are the ones that I personally feel a innate belief in and make me feel uplifted.

As far as reservations or doubts go - I pray a lot
D

SoberMan2012

Taking what works for me out of AA,NA,CA, church, the bible, buddhism, my family, my friends and leaving the rest really works well for me. I find in my recovery flexable thinking is the key to success, just becuase I cannot agree with another person on every theological point doesnt mean i cannot find common ground with most people. I look at myself like robin hood, i steal what works for me, make it my own, and i give what I have stolen to whomever wants it.

eh1988

I grew up Christian. I still believe in all that my religion teaches but I'd never be the one to try to force my religion down someone's throat. I find that a lot of churches are hypocritical. They talk about people who make mistakes such as sex before marriage, drinking, doing drugs etc. as if they are lower than dirt. The bible teaches us that we all sin yet I see some Christians and Catholics talk to me like their sh*t don't stink. I can only imagine how many people have been turned off to religion because of the way some churches will look at them or judge them.

Dee74

Altho it's slightly off topic. this might be a good place for me to remind people that religious beliefs, like recovery choices, are a very personal thing, and everyones right to their own belief is enshrined in our rules.

Please do share your experience but please be mindful that, without due care, some other members could feel offended by what you write.

thanks
D

LoftyIdeals

Nirvana...I commend you for what you are seeking, and I hope you find it. I am a protestant pastor's son, and often saw irony in the judgment of church people. Although I am a regular attending church member now, I have a disdain for the body politic of the church. I just don't believe it is what Christ's ministry was about, and He is our earthly example, in my opinion. That said, I rebelled from the church for about a decade. Only when I returned to practicing faith did I understand what it is all about.

As someone else said, each of us has to find what that is for us. It may or may not include church attendance or membership. I don't believe that is required by God. It's our beliefs, our willingness, and our hearts that will save us, not church membership.

I have always had a strong spiritual sensitivity. I get an incredible sensation when I can perceive the Holy Spirit in my life. That said, I have had that sensation in the rooms of AA at least as much as I've had them in a church setting, or any other life setting.

Put God in your heart, and ask Him how to respond. And, then...listen. He will answer.

Peace,

Ranger

Thanks for the thread, N.

Simply put, I would not attend a church that always leaves me worse than I found it.

There is a difference between a pastor challenging his congregation to improve in the likeness of Christ and a pastor who makes a living by browbeating his flock. Thing is, what's challenging to me might be a browbeating to you.

Which brings me back to finding the right 'fit' in a church home. No doubt in the DFW metro there are a dozen of every kind of Christian church imaginable. Don't be shy to shop churches in the same manner one shops AA home groups.

katrinka

I was brought up in church, left for a while and then felt the need to go back after some family tragedies. I picked a less strict church and it isn't perfect but I go every week and sing in my church choir. Maybe you should "church shop" Listen to some sermons and find a church that makes you feel good when you leave.

Nirvana1

Thanks for all of the advice. I think part of my problem is that my girlfriend is very religious and expects me to be really on point with everything. I am very open minded, but the church I've been attending goes over topics of sin that really put everyone uneasy. For example, the pastor went over abortion and it's wrongness very heavily, and there were women crying and it was super uncomfortable.

I guess my AA experience has been about love, compassion, and what we are doing right, while church has focused on what we do wrong, in my opinion. It also doesn't help that my girlfriend is upset with me after almost every church attendance or bible study. It's like I have to battle with what is being taught so she doesn't think I'm such a bad person, even though I'm doing so well by almost all standards.

eJoshua

I agree with many of the points on this thread and I think it's a fantastic topic.

Just like there are good AA groups and bad AA groups, I truly believe there are good churches and bad churches. Also like AA groups, I think it's important that the church you attend focus on the solution (Jesus) rather than the problem (sin).

For those who think of recovery and religion as two separate parts of their lives, I have to disagree. I can't ever live in that kind of dualistic, compartmentalized way of thinking. For better or worse, things tend to take over my life when I get passionate about them. So I am 100% raging alcoholic in recovery and 100% committed Christian. I can't separate those sides of my life.

I recognize it's not the same for everyone though, and I have no desire to proselytize. I do think it's awefully hard to be in a recovery environment without at least examining the spiritual side of your life, but in the end, and in the context of SR, I am just happy that people get sober and want to support them in that, regardless of how they got there.

Purplecatlover

Nirvana,
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9 NIV84)
Period. You just have to believe.
Jesus came to free us, not condemn. Condemnation comes from the Devil.
Pray for a discerning spirit to sort out the voices in your head.
As far as your GF, she should understand we are all at different levels of our faith walk, just like sobriety.
I personally would look at other churches to find one that strengthens my faith, not lessens it. One that uplifts, inspires & teaches Gods love, forgiveness, healing & restoration. Jesus came to set the captives free, not bind them up again.
Congrats on 15 months! Awesome job

WakeUp

There are members of the clergy in all kinds of 12 Step groups; AA, NA, GA, CA, DA, alphabet soup-A.

Their religious convictions are good, but they are unable to produce a spiritual experience that is necessary for real recovery. The instructions for how to have a spiritual experience is in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I don't know about other fellowship's different literature, so I can't comment on those.