Question about the philosphies of AA - Because I really need it
 

I stopped going to AA because as a mahayana Buddhist it was possible for me to believe in a god but not that he can save me. Only I can save myself.

Now I read a Buddhist theology on 12 steps (as we all know it was formed on through a Christian theology)

Now a Buddhist would refer to the "self" as your ego, the part of you that craves the alcohol, or wants that new TV, the fancy wrist watch. The source of craving, jealousy, anger etc...

Could my higher power be the achievement of a high state of mind, I suppose a quest for wisdom and knowledge and destruction of the ego? To achieve or attempt to achieve peace of mind instead of suffering within our own minds (which i'm sure we're all very familiar with)

Please discuss as I believe I do need AA for a sober life... also Buddhism teaches discipline. I was very bad at actually turning up.

I'm 23... i have a long life ahead so i need some answers or opinions because i have too much to offer the world for this disease to take over my life anymore.

Hi DBU

Welcome :)

I'm neither a Buddhist or an 12 stepper, but you might find a thread or two on this in our Secular 12 step forum :)

Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
D

Oh god ignore the Deadbobsuncle... its a stupid screen name, I just have an old account on here.

Dee74... may I ask if you are you an alcoholic?

Also another question is, I would like to travel the world to devote my life to helping people once I am healthy myself. Once I learn to live and love myself again. Do people recover permanently without the 12 step program?

Yep, I am an alcoholic - so the answer to your other question is yes we do - it's entirely possible :)

D

Right on!Im glad I stumbled upon this one... Its good to read that Dee ^^... Im not anti-AA,nothing near it.But I personally cant do the meetings and get what Im looking for out of them.They make me crave immediatly.Its a trigger as soon as I leave a meeting...

I also have been very intrested in Buddhism in general for over 10 years.I just turned 27.This time around with recovery,my choice is alcohol.And im on 11 days sober and have been meditating and retreating to old Zen ways.Ive been reading this book,"The Zen of Recovery" by Mel Ash and he kind of gives a basic history of Zen coming to the West.The Mahayana Buddhists specifically call to my ears.

Thankyou so much, they teach that without the 12 step program you will always be ill and relapse time and time again.

I feel they have brainwashed me slightly because I began to believe it myself.

The Dharma (teachings of Buddha... and theres 65,000 of them) so I best get learning is already helping to heal me spiritually.

Namaste (go in peace) and may you live a long happy life.

I'm 23, an IQ of 107, I have so much to offer the world. I could do so much to help others in my life. Thankyou so much for confirming my question.

Your post came up as I was writing my last one. Start slow. It's not a process you can learn quickly. First of all learn to meditate, it's a lot harder than it seems to achieve a clear mind.

Next I suggest you read about mindfullness. Very good book by Thich Nhat Hanh called Peace is Every Step. Very good starting point.

It's not a religion it's a philosophy but one you must try to practice daily to achieve goals from it. You don't have to stop eating meat or shave your head - it's simply a way to live your life more peacefully and free from craving. All craving. Material and narcotic.

you'll find a lot of people using a variety of methods here - some AA some not :)

Apart from the secular 12 step forum I mentioned earlier I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach.

& our Spirituality forum also has some threads on Buddhism and Recovery :)

D

Thanks Dee for giving me faith in not having to go to what I believe is also an addiction. Most people end up going 5-7 a week... if thats not an addiction i dont know what is.

DBU, great that you got your question about the philosophies of AA answered. You did really need that.

I much rather people go ahead and try anything they think might help them and prefer to do, instead of showing up at AA while wanting to do something else they are sure will work out fine.

Everyone is better off if they don't come around until they've explored the avenues that hold some hope for them. Often when they come back the debates are over and they can do the things that will help them, instead of wondering and evalutating and hedging, and wasting everyone's time.

Wish you well on your world travels to help others and offering to the world that which you have to offer.

I'd keep quiet about your IQ # though unless 107 was a typo. Above 150 might impress some, below that...no.

I did mean 137, not quite sure how i made that typo. I wasnt trying to impress anyone, I know its only above average intelligence. I am just trying to say that I'm smart enough to help people and do a lot more with my life than drink it away.

I would like to dedicate my life to conservation, as in animal conservation. Either in East Asia or South America, South America though... I dont like the idea of being kidnapped by narcos.

Good luck on your sober journey...And congrats on the IQ...You had me worried there for a minute.

Of course you don't have to use AA. It says as much in the big book.

In terms of Buddhist recovery, here is an interesting link:

Buddhist Recovery Network : Meetings

Respectfully, (and I am not in AA nor do I attend any meetings) Working on recovery on a daily basis, be it through meditation, meetings, reading, or logging on here is not necessarily another addiction. There are things that we need or choose to use daily to maintain our body, mind and soul.

Where is that written? I never read or heard that myself, and I have read the book a bunch of times and have attended a lot of meetings.

Whatever.... do what works for you and Good Luck on your journey!

A high IQ is a good thing to have... but... :) ... sometimes it just gets in the way, at least at first. Be vigilant for justification, rationalization, intellectualization... all that.

Welcome to SR !!

I believe there are different "types" of alcoholics, best described in meetings as "some are sicker than others". The Big Book talks about it.

I wish you the best in your recovery choice(s).

AA was there for me when all else failed.

Bob R.

I know of handful of "Buddhist leaning" AA members who have recovered via a spiritual awakening as the result of the 12 Steps, and have no conflict at all between their beliefs and AA's philosophies. My own concepts of a higher power tend more towards an Eastern philosophy, and AA works just fine for me.

I'm a Buddhist in AA. The 12 steps and Buddhism support eachother beautifully. I had to remember that its a God of my understanding. My higher power can be non-dual even though the steps say he, him, and God. I actually think the externalization of the higher power is a brilliant teaching for addict Buddhists because our minds are terribly deluded. I didn't see much Buddha nature in my mind when meditating when I first got sober. I saw terrible craving, ignorance, and delusion. externalizing the power was incredibly helpful, and necessary at first for me to start recovering.

initially I made a simple comparison that was my higher power. refuge in the three jewels of Buddhism and AA. The Buddha(AA). The dharma(12 steps). The sangha(the fellowship). the similarities are striking. my view has evolved as ive evolved but this principle remains a part of it.

I work the steps from a Buddhist perspective and lots of others do too. one of my sponsees is Buddhist. my area in north Carolina has two non-sanctioned 12 step Buddhist recovery groups that meet every week to meditate and discuss the steps from a Buddhist perspective. there's 10-20 of us and I'm in a small town. get involved, you might be surprised what you find.

I learned the hard way that Buddhist practice is not a substitution for 12 step work. AA must be my foundation from which my practice grows. Buddhists at large don't understand much about me and that's fine I have the fellowship and the steps for that and my practice and sangha to continue growing on my path.

google kevin griffin, Darren Littlejohn, mel ash, Judith ragir, and Noah levine. you will find sites where you can buy books and download dharma 12 step talks. I particularly recommend one breath at a time by Kevin griffin and his second book a burning desire. a burning desire specifically addresses the concept of a dharma God and addresses the God steps from a Buddhist perspective.

i choose to see my recovery as a reawakening of my True Self - and to finally 'get it' that past and future are merely mind constructs - what we have is the Present.. I could not have seen that without the 12 Steps, AA and NA meetings, sponsors, service etc...

Part of Mel Ash's version of the Heart Sutra"

Our true self
when practicing fearless self examination and mindfulness,
discovers that our beliefs, character defects and diseases
are empty and without any true existence...

-p91, Zen and Recovery