Is there any hope for an atheist?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 230
Is there any hope for an atheist?
Hi everyone,
I know I need to change some things to stop my cycle of relapsing. And I know it isn't just a case of "not drinking". But I see lots of stuff about AA and the twelve steps etc which seriously just isn't going to be for me. Nor religion. Or any kind of spirituality really.
I am on day 6 and, whilst I am really willing to quit, I am just looking down the barrel of
a) be depressed and make it go away some of the time with alcohol
b) be depressed and not make it go away with alcohol
And so I just keep on opting for solution a). What I really need is some insight from other atheists about how to beat this thing. I am just too damn existentialist.
Thanks for reading this.
I know I need to change some things to stop my cycle of relapsing. And I know it isn't just a case of "not drinking". But I see lots of stuff about AA and the twelve steps etc which seriously just isn't going to be for me. Nor religion. Or any kind of spirituality really.
I am on day 6 and, whilst I am really willing to quit, I am just looking down the barrel of
a) be depressed and make it go away some of the time with alcohol
b) be depressed and not make it go away with alcohol
And so I just keep on opting for solution a). What I really need is some insight from other atheists about how to beat this thing. I am just too damn existentialist.
Thanks for reading this.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 140
I think it is important to seek help for mental health problems. There is no shame in going to a counselor, and making sure you find the right counselor that works with you.
I am not a spiritual person in the religious sense either, but if there's one thing I've learned during sobriety is you will have a lot of emotions coming back that you must face. It is hard, but in some ways it becomes a relief to really feel again.
I am not a spiritual person in the religious sense either, but if there's one thing I've learned during sobriety is you will have a lot of emotions coming back that you must face. It is hard, but in some ways it becomes a relief to really feel again.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,756
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
Bounced, of course there's hope and it comes in many forms.
There's strong medication available. Your Doctor should be completely informed of the depth of your alcohol problem to start you out with the proper combination and effective dosages and cautions. Listen closely to the cautions as they can be critically important.
You could make another firm decision again, but you've no doubt done that enough by now.
Twice a week hypnosis, possibly 3x depending on what level of help will work out for you well. Once begun it's dangerous to miss appointments.
Health Food suppliers will sell you various herb extracts, Kudzu has been helpful short term for a small number of alcoholics.
You could research widely different types of aversion methods, much depends on your tolerance for pain.
Pattern finger tapping has been practiced for relief from alcoholism, and is reputed to have other benefits as well according to practitioners. Look for Gary Craig's EFT tapping pointers for what to tap and where.
There are programs which will steer you toward evaluating if getting drunk a lot is a positive or a negative in your life, with some simple to understand worksheets and 'stop and think before you act' thinking techniques that you can write down and carry with you.
Other programs are available which encourage you to decide exactly how you should stop drinking and stay stopped, leaving it up to you to choose whatever you feel good about doing or not doing or believing or not believing regarding the subject, which is incidentally up to you to decide if it actually is a subject or not.
There are also secular humanist programs out there that offer their assurance they are not in the least bit anything like AA and because they are not they feel good about offering you their answer, which is that they definitely aren't AA.
There are a ton more, but this list should get you going for starters.
There's strong medication available. Your Doctor should be completely informed of the depth of your alcohol problem to start you out with the proper combination and effective dosages and cautions. Listen closely to the cautions as they can be critically important.
You could make another firm decision again, but you've no doubt done that enough by now.
Twice a week hypnosis, possibly 3x depending on what level of help will work out for you well. Once begun it's dangerous to miss appointments.
Health Food suppliers will sell you various herb extracts, Kudzu has been helpful short term for a small number of alcoholics.
You could research widely different types of aversion methods, much depends on your tolerance for pain.
Pattern finger tapping has been practiced for relief from alcoholism, and is reputed to have other benefits as well according to practitioners. Look for Gary Craig's EFT tapping pointers for what to tap and where.
There are programs which will steer you toward evaluating if getting drunk a lot is a positive or a negative in your life, with some simple to understand worksheets and 'stop and think before you act' thinking techniques that you can write down and carry with you.
Other programs are available which encourage you to decide exactly how you should stop drinking and stay stopped, leaving it up to you to choose whatever you feel good about doing or not doing or believing or not believing regarding the subject, which is incidentally up to you to decide if it actually is a subject or not.
There are also secular humanist programs out there that offer their assurance they are not in the least bit anything like AA and because they are not they feel good about offering you their answer, which is that they definitely aren't AA.
There are a ton more, but this list should get you going for starters.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
That question is easily answered. There are numerous secular recovery options, and sites to explain the various differences. No doubt the SR moderator or administrator can identify some of these for you. Also why not try to get in touch with some other atheist alcoholics or, if you wish, agnostic ones. Even within AA there are often groups for these, particularly in large, metropolitan cities. One thing is clear. Sobriety is not the monopoly of the religious folk, whatever some people may say. You are just as much entitled not to drink as anyone else!
W.
W.
I'm here to learn!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: I'm on it!
Posts: 2,038
Perhaps you are not so existential as you think and more just depressed. I would encourage you to see a psychiatrist and get their recommendations.
Whatever you do, don't discount recovery because you think you need faith to abstain. There are a lot of secular recovery groups out there. Check out the secular forums on here more info.
Whatever you do, don't discount recovery because you think you need faith to abstain. There are a lot of secular recovery groups out there. Check out the secular forums on here more info.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
I went into AA as a life-long, staunch atheist who thought the idea of a higher power was a crutch for weak-minded people. I was contemptuous of most everything religious.
Alcohol beat me senseless for many years. I lost families, jobs, respect, my health, my freedom. I tried willpower, fear, doctors, meds, counselors, therapy, intensive outpatient treatment, inpatient treatment, etc. I still drank.
I took the 12 Steps like my life depended on it with a man who worked a solid AA program. I recovered, and haven't had the drink problem around for many years.
About 1/2 the original AA members who contributed to the BB came at initially from and atheist or agnostic stance. They did exactly what I did and they recovered. I'd say, the same is true today. About 1/2 the solid guys in my home group started AA as pretty hard core atheists like me. They took the 12 Steps and they recovered.
Alcohol beat me senseless for many years. I lost families, jobs, respect, my health, my freedom. I tried willpower, fear, doctors, meds, counselors, therapy, intensive outpatient treatment, inpatient treatment, etc. I still drank.
I took the 12 Steps like my life depended on it with a man who worked a solid AA program. I recovered, and haven't had the drink problem around for many years.
About 1/2 the original AA members who contributed to the BB came at initially from and atheist or agnostic stance. They did exactly what I did and they recovered. I'd say, the same is true today. About 1/2 the solid guys in my home group started AA as pretty hard core atheists like me. They took the 12 Steps and they recovered.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,733
Green Eggs & Ham
I know atheists who are spiritual. Suggestions: Ask yourself why you are set on not being spiritual? Just my opinion (and you know how the saying goes....) that there is a root of fear when I am against something without truly trying it or checking something new out. Will it be uncomfortable? You betcha it will! Can you try to open your mind and replace "God" with "group of drunks" or anything else when you hear it at a meeting? Have you asked yourself why this term or the idea puts you on the defensive or makes you angry or indifferent? Have you had a bad experience with "religious" or spiritual people? I hope you will chew on these thoughts. I have a set religion but through this program I have realized that my spirituality can be different and that I am allowed to explore all sorts of options that do not necessarily line up with my religion. Is this hard for me to do? YES. I was raised a certain way and was told that anything off course would send me to hell. Talk about scary. I am loving practicing opening up my mind and truly trying out different ideas of spirituality. It won't hurt me. I won't be brain washed. I am not afraid. I would like for you and everyone else to feel that sort of confidence and not be a prisoner of fear.
Take what you want of my post and trash the rest.
Take what you want of my post and trash the rest.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I was horribly depressed and drinking like a fish. OK, I knew that alcohol is a powerful central nervous system depressant, but I am different, and correlation is not causality, so I kept trying to drink the depression and anxiety away. Anti D medications did not help a bit, not until I stopped drinking, and within a week I knew that I had found the reason for my crushing depression. AVRT seemed to resonate with me, and because I was ready for this, it only took a few hours to go through the process in my mind. If you would like to look at an AA alternative, Rational Recovery and AVRT should be at the top of your list.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by langkah 
There are also secular humanist programs out there that offer their assurance they are not in the least bit anything like AA and because they are not they feel good about offering you their answer, which is that they definitely aren't AA.
I like to think of them as 'AA clones', sans the customary HP, Langkah.
dopeless hope fiend
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here. Now.
Posts: 1,021
ANY person can get sober. Atheists can get sober both inside and outside of 12 step programs. You just have to find something that resonates with your being. I'm a buddhist/non-theist/psuedo-atheist and i found a way to work my 12 step program in a way that is very deep and meaningful to me. i know lots of people that are doing the same.
but it ain't the only way. it's just the only way i'm knowledgeable about.
but it ain't the only way. it's just the only way i'm knowledgeable about.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
Getting Help for Alcoholism and Addiction secular programs are in here, read through this page!
search: Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) www.sossobriety.org/whatissos
Article Source: 3 Effective Secular Alternatives to Alcoholics Anonymous
AVRT: https://www.google.com/search?q=AVRT...ient=firefox-a
SMART: SMART Recovery® | Self Help for Addiction & Alcohol Abuse
LifeRing: liferingrecovery.org/
And there is always support here at Sober Recovery!
You can stay stopped, too!!!
search: Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS) www.sossobriety.org/whatissos
Article Source: 3 Effective Secular Alternatives to Alcoholics Anonymous
AVRT: https://www.google.com/search?q=AVRT...ient=firefox-a
SMART: SMART Recovery® | Self Help for Addiction & Alcohol Abuse
LifeRing: liferingrecovery.org/
And there is always support here at Sober Recovery!
You can stay stopped, too!!!
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,888
I would suggest continued participation here at SR as a good first step in recovery. There are a good amount of SR members here that have found their way out of addiction without AA.
The below links are some very useful secular recovery programs. Have a look at them
SMART Tools and SMART Articles
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Recovery Tools Recovery Resources from cbtrecovery.com
DBT Life Skills For Emotional Health
Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. By Jack Trimpey. (Google book preview including the Addiction Voice Recognition Technique or the AVRT)
Or if you do decide to participate in AA, this will be useful to know what other atheist/agnostic AA members use in place of the original AA 12-Steps:
Agnostic AA 12 Steps
Then there's Langkah list of recovery programs. From my POV they are equally as effective as AA
. As there is no one program of recovery that is appropriate for eveone.
The below links are some very useful secular recovery programs. Have a look at them
SMART Tools and SMART Articles
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Recovery Tools Recovery Resources from cbtrecovery.com
DBT Life Skills For Emotional Health
Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction. By Jack Trimpey. (Google book preview including the Addiction Voice Recognition Technique or the AVRT)
Or if you do decide to participate in AA, this will be useful to know what other atheist/agnostic AA members use in place of the original AA 12-Steps:
Agnostic AA 12 Steps
Then there's Langkah list of recovery programs. From my POV they are equally as effective as AA
. As there is no one program of recovery that is appropriate for eveone.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by bounced
What I really need is some insight from other atheists about how to beat this thing. I am just too damn existentialist.
About the "beat this thing" position though.... not so much can it be beaten, is my experience.
I could only surrender to my not ever winning the unbeatable fight against my alcoholism. My surrender is accomplished by my living a sober life. I have chosen to live that life spiritually, but that is a choice, and sobriety can be achieved without spiritual foundations or experiences.
I've not ever known of anybody using whatever means and "beat their alcoholsim" and proceed from there into a quality sobriety going forward.
As an existentialist, you have obvious tools at your reach too it seems to me, if you don't fight a useless fight against either alcohol itself, or alcoholism itself.
I was never an atheist but I was agnostic, and I managed to quit alcoholic drinking, stay sober, and live a life free of relapsing -- all without getting religious.
Like I said, living a spiritual life was a personal choice. I could choose to be agnostic again, and I would still enjoy my sobriety. First I got sober then I got spiritual. I really didn't ever want to experience getting drunk again so my sobriety is built on complete abstinence. With that understanding as I worked through my final detox, I chose the AA Way going forward, it did not choose me...
So yeah, being an atheist is not a deal breaker to stopping the relapsing and enjoying an ongoing solid recovered life!
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by langkah
Bounced, of course there's hope and it comes in many forms.
There's strong medication available. Your Doctor should be completely informed of the depth of your alcohol problem to start you out with the proper combination and effective dosages and cautions. Listen closely to the cautions as they can be critically important.
You could make another firm decision again, but you've no doubt done that enough by now.
Twice a week hypnosis, possibly 3x depending on what level of help will work out for you well. Once begun it's dangerous to miss appointments.
Health Food suppliers will sell you various herb extracts, Kudzu has been helpful short term for a small number of alcoholics.
You could research widely different types of aversion methods, much depends on your tolerance for pain.
Pattern finger tapping has been practiced for relief from alcoholism, and is reputed to have other benefits as well according to practitioners. Look for Gary Craig's EFT tapping pointers for what to tap and where.
There are programs which will steer you toward evaluating if getting drunk a lot is a positive or a negative in your life, with some simple to understand worksheets and 'stop and think before you act' thinking techniques that you can write down and carry with you.
Other programs are available which encourage you to decide exactly how you should stop drinking and stay stopped, leaving it up to you to choose whatever you feel good about doing or not doing or believing or not believing regarding the subject, which is incidentally up to you to decide if it actually is a subject or not.
There are also secular humanist programs out there that offer their assurance they are not in the least bit anything like AA and because they are not they feel good about offering you their answer, which is that they definitely aren't AA.
There are a ton more, but this list should get you going for starters.
There's strong medication available. Your Doctor should be completely informed of the depth of your alcohol problem to start you out with the proper combination and effective dosages and cautions. Listen closely to the cautions as they can be critically important.
You could make another firm decision again, but you've no doubt done that enough by now.
Twice a week hypnosis, possibly 3x depending on what level of help will work out for you well. Once begun it's dangerous to miss appointments.
Health Food suppliers will sell you various herb extracts, Kudzu has been helpful short term for a small number of alcoholics.
You could research widely different types of aversion methods, much depends on your tolerance for pain.
Pattern finger tapping has been practiced for relief from alcoholism, and is reputed to have other benefits as well according to practitioners. Look for Gary Craig's EFT tapping pointers for what to tap and where.
There are programs which will steer you toward evaluating if getting drunk a lot is a positive or a negative in your life, with some simple to understand worksheets and 'stop and think before you act' thinking techniques that you can write down and carry with you.
Other programs are available which encourage you to decide exactly how you should stop drinking and stay stopped, leaving it up to you to choose whatever you feel good about doing or not doing or believing or not believing regarding the subject, which is incidentally up to you to decide if it actually is a subject or not.
There are also secular humanist programs out there that offer their assurance they are not in the least bit anything like AA and because they are not they feel good about offering you their answer, which is that they definitely aren't AA.
There are a ton more, but this list should get you going for starters.
Live and let live seems to appeal to me just now, you know?! Anyways, whatta ya gonna do, eh? Who am I too talk?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 230
I would like to say thank you everyone who has contributed. There is just so much information here and so much for me to feel positive about.
I put the message up hoping that a few people might read it and a kind of fear that no one would be too interested but then I came back and there are just so many valuable responses.
I am doing some CBT councelling which is mainly to do with my constant need for "approval" (I had a very strict father who taught me that "2nd was 1st of the losers". Ever since I have found myself to be inadequate in everything I do, irrespective of how well I do it). The councelling seems to be helping a lot and I am gradually learning about doing stuff because I want to and not just to try and get approval from everyone else. I have used alcohol (rather too effectively) to turn off the incessant voice telling me how inadequate I am.
I need to go now as I have a lot of reading to do. I feel really a lot more positive after reading all your posts. My sincere gratitude.
I put the message up hoping that a few people might read it and a kind of fear that no one would be too interested but then I came back and there are just so many valuable responses.
I am doing some CBT councelling which is mainly to do with my constant need for "approval" (I had a very strict father who taught me that "2nd was 1st of the losers". Ever since I have found myself to be inadequate in everything I do, irrespective of how well I do it). The councelling seems to be helping a lot and I am gradually learning about doing stuff because I want to and not just to try and get approval from everyone else. I have used alcohol (rather too effectively) to turn off the incessant voice telling me how inadequate I am.
I need to go now as I have a lot of reading to do. I feel really a lot more positive after reading all your posts. My sincere gratitude.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
i heard it best said:
Step One... There is a problem
Step Two.....There is a solution.
Step Three... The choice is mine
The Big Book says it best, all we need is enough willingness to be open to look at a Higher Power.
Best of luck.
Bob R
Step One... There is a problem
Step Two.....There is a solution.
Step Three... The choice is mine
The Big Book says it best, all we need is enough willingness to be open to look at a Higher Power.
Best of luck.
Bob R
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