Terminally Unique

Strictly speaking, although the OP used an AVRT term — "Addictive Voice" — he was not quite using AVRT. This is part of what I was trying to allude to in my post, as learning AVRT might save him from some of that "white knuckling" he's got going on.

Within the AVRT paradigm, the Beast is the perverted survival drive that desires alcohol in order to survive. The closest 12-Step analogue would be 'my disease', or possibly 'king alcohol' from the Big Book.

The Addictive Voice (AV) is the expression of that desire, the thoughts and feelings that support future drinking. It is the Beast's human voice. The closest 12-Step analogue would be 'the committee', which is referenced in the Grapevine magazine.

Just as the AA model assumes that alcoholism cannot really be cured, only arrested (BB, Pg 85), AVRT assumes that The Beast cannot really be killed, but only locked up, so to speak. It will, however, become quite weak over time if you starve it by abstaining.

While the Beast is active, AVRT allows you to wall yourself off from any thinking or feelings that the Beast generates, so that you are, in effect, not fighting it. This is counter-intuitive, which is why people usually get into debates with the AV, until they figure out that doing so is a losing proposition, or at least a tiring one. Of course, some people will nevertheless still elect to struggle against the Beast, arguing with the Addictive Voice until they are blue in the face, but it is not AVRT.

Used properly, AVRT is effectively a two-step process, consisting of recognition of the AV, and then separation, or dissociation. Note that this is not the same as dissociative disorders, which are problematic. We all naturally dissociate to some extent, but not everyone does it consciously and intentionally. The separation is the key, though; without it, you will be struggling against desire. It's not an exact analogy, since you only detach from the Beast, but I have previously compared the subjective feeling of AVRT to repeatedly "turning it over" (ie, Step 3).

It has somewhat of a steep learning curve at first, but like any other learned skill, AVRT does get quite easy once you get the hang of it. At first, the Addictive Voice appears to be you, and will try to sneak in under the radar, as Peter G noted, so you have to learn to recognize it. Eventually, though, recognition becomes practically effortless, and AVRT identifies most variations of the AV, which saves you lots of trial and error. The Addictive Voice may still throw you a curve-ball every so often, but you really can't miss it.

Sapling

Cool...I was hoping you would come along...I like how you explained that compared with AA...Nicely done...So like the steps...This is something you have to practice daily?....And what kind of time frame are you looking at to get to that walled off stage...Roughly.

RobbyRobot

Absolutely!

Calling it the alcoholic mind floats my boat. Sobriety keeps that crap wired tight, arrested, and disempowered!!

Terminally Unique

Some people "get it" faster than others. I was a little slow on the uptake myself, and I am often surprised at how fast some people on the AVRT threads on here get a grip. While AVRT made a lot of sense to me when I read through the RR book, something just didn't feel right for a while, like I wasn't doing it properly. It still felt like I was thinking about it all the time, which didn't seem right.

I eventually decided to just subscribe to the RR forums, and I read through countless archived posts for about a month. There were several posts from 'AVRT masters' which shed some light on things, and eventually it just clicked. Right now, I really don't have to think about it, feels more like a reflex. Of course, it also helps that the Beast is damn near dead at this point, and doesn't pipe up too often.

So, to answer your question, no, I don't really have to practice it daily anymore, I just use it as needed. The only time I have to really think about it is when answering "newbie" questions on the AVRT threads. I would say it took me six months to get it down pat, but if you put the effort in, it can be smooth sailing by 90 days easily. I suspect that if I had just read through the RR forums from the get-go, instead of thinking that I couldn't possibly not figure it out all on my own, I would have saved lots of time.

justhadenough

Hi Sapling

It's still early days for me and I would also be interested to hear someone's response who has used AVRT for a longer time. for me, even after 6 weeks, the voice isn't as prominent. It rears its head sometimes but you just shut it down. For me anyway, it is quick and almost an automatic reaction now. It isn't a long drawn out process or discussion. Don't get me wrong some times are worse than others but then I'm sure everyone gets that, no matter which method of recovery they have chosen. It is hard to explain but you separate yourself of reason that is in control and makes decisions from your self that wants to drink. I'm probably not explaining it very well-I'm sure a more experienced AVRT person will be able to

Edit: just seen Terminally Unique has responded answering this more concisely than I have

Sapling

I thank both of you...I just like to see something that works....ANYTHING that can save a person's life is more than O.K. with me....It brings a smile to my face. It sounds a lot like having the obsession lifted...Which for me came around the 90 day mark...I just don't think about it and can walk into a place with a bunch of screaming drunks and it doesn't bother me....I don't do that often...If ever....Just don't like being around drunks...I lived as one too long.
That's fantastic that is another option to AA that works and I understand it more....I will stick with AA...As I hope you stick with what is working for you. The "practice" part of the program is something I really enjoy...And it makes me a better person. I guess I was not only mentally and physically shot from alcohol....I was spriitually bankrupt....I needed some major help in that department....And those 12 steps found it for me.
Keep doing what you are doing...It makes me happy...No matter how you do it.... (Take someone like Dee or Anna...They just beat it on their own...Whch amazes me!) But whatever anybody on this site or on this planet uses to stay stopped is a miracle to me....We all just want the same thing.....Freedom.
TU...JHE.....I thank you both again.....For opening my mind a little bit more. Always remain teachable!

Terminally Unique

No bother. This might also help you see some parallels.

I'm sure you've heard people say that their disease is telling them to stop going to AA meetings or working the steps, so in a way, the logic of AA could be construed as this:
The logic of AVRT could likewise be construed as this:

Sapling

Cool...We actually talked about that in this morning's meeting...Go figure....Thanks TU...You are a wealth of information. It does sound pretty much like the same game plan....Minus an HP.