trouble with amends
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Posts: 120
trouble with amends
I am at almost 6 months sober now and am working with a sponsor and we have gotten to the 9th step. I have a lot of fear around making amends and don't really think that I have done too many things that even really warrant them. I've gone over my 4th step and it's a lot of ex-boyfriends, friends who I used to drink/use with, and family members. I guess my biggest thing I don't want to do is to actually set up and make an amends and have to tell the person that I'm in recovery. It's none of their business. It all feels very weird and I'm sure that is normal. I don't want to lie to my sponsor and say that I'm setting up and making these amends and not really do them but there are honestly only a handful of people on my 4th step list that I feel like I really caused harm to/stole from/lied to/etc. I don't know what to do. I know I should pray over it, but I'm not really a praying sort of person. I'm just feeling horrible about this. I'm not going to drink or use over this but it is really frustrating!
-L
-L
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
I'm no AA expert, but from what I've read/heard, making amends doesn't necessarily mean that you have to apologize face to face over tea. Sometimes making amends can be as simple as never letting those sorts of things happen again. Sometimes it can mean paying it forward to someone else you know with a problem.
In all cases, you shouldn't drudge up memories with someone if it will do more harm than good, regardless if AA says to do it or not. Yes, it may give you a sense of closure, but it could also harm the person with whom you are trying to make amends.
..just my two cents.
In all cases, you shouldn't drudge up memories with someone if it will do more harm than good, regardless if AA says to do it or not. Yes, it may give you a sense of closure, but it could also harm the person with whom you are trying to make amends.
..just my two cents.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,473
I'm not in AA, but I have made amends, but I agree with you that it isn't anybody's business. Sometimes, to make amends, people write a letter to someone, but don't send it. Sometimes making amends might only be about relieving your own guilt. That's something I had to deal with, and I realized that speaking to the person would have made her feel worse. I hope you find a way to get through this that you are comfortable with. 
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Posts: 120
Originally Posted by sugarbear1 
How did you get to the 9th step without praying?
I know that my sponsor wants me to make as many direct amends as possible rather than the sending them a letter or phone calls. I dunno...it just seems weird and is uncomfortable. I really wish there was some way to just skip doing this...but unfortunately I don't think that's gonna be the case.
-L
instant
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,711
I don't go to AA but I assume it is about making peace with your past and making restitution / redeeming yourself. I think I read somewhere in the Big Book about not harming yourself or others in the process. It might be good to refer to the relevant section in the book.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
I did a lot of harm out there, and my 8th step was extensive, required me to pay back just under $88k (in today's money value) and took about 5 years to complete.
When it came to women I'd treated badly who had moved on, married, or would have been otherwise harmed by revisiting the past I didn't make those. We don't save our butts at the expense of others.
The formula for an effective amends is in the book, and works well. I wanted to be complete on each because I dreaded the thought of having to go back and correct a badly made amends.
Eventually I found myself often deciding not to do things simply because I did not want to make the amends they would later require.
My fears of getting shot or going to prison for a long time were not realized, and cleaning up the past allowed me to see more of who I'd been drinking, and removed all fear of running into someone from those days, or having some authority finally catch up to me.
There's no doubt in my mind I'd have gotten drunk again or even worse, stayed fearful and nuts but not drinking had I not taken care of that crap.
When it came to women I'd treated badly who had moved on, married, or would have been otherwise harmed by revisiting the past I didn't make those. We don't save our butts at the expense of others.
The formula for an effective amends is in the book, and works well. I wanted to be complete on each because I dreaded the thought of having to go back and correct a badly made amends.
Eventually I found myself often deciding not to do things simply because I did not want to make the amends they would later require.
My fears of getting shot or going to prison for a long time were not realized, and cleaning up the past allowed me to see more of who I'd been drinking, and removed all fear of running into someone from those days, or having some authority finally catch up to me.
There's no doubt in my mind I'd have gotten drunk again or even worse, stayed fearful and nuts but not drinking had I not taken care of that crap.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by langkah
There's no doubt in my mind I'd have gotten drunk again or even worse, stayed fearful and nuts but not drinking had I not taken care of that crap.
-L
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
I had some of those too.
In essence I'd let them know I'm an alcoholic and because I was very sick back then I couldn't be the friend they needed and deserved, and I regret my violation of their trust. I'm now a sober AA member and part of that process is to correct the harms I've done others in my past, and that I'll do my best not treat them that way again in the future.
Then listen to what they need to tell you without interrupting, if anything. If they bring up additional harms you address those.
You don't need to promise to now be their BFF, as often it's the last contact you'll have with them. It doesn't matter how they react, though they almost uniformly are glad to get your amends and wish you well.
Some amends are personal like this, but others are less so. If a business or institution was involved I tried to see a higher-up alone. If they initially refused their money I left their money anyway...and they always eventually take their money. The ones that were out of business or the people had vanished, I'd use their money to help out newcomers when appropriate. The ones who I decided would be harmed by my contact I would sometimes later run into and if they were put in front of me in that way I'd make the amends.
Also, I felt initially guilty when new for some events in which I had not behaved wrongly, but those events had gone bad. Running those by my sponsor removed quite a few names from my list. I was responsible for the harms done by my actions only, not in situations where I was involved and people were harmed by the actions of others or larger forces.
So, you deal what you need to deal with and be done with it. And maybe you can be grateful you weren't a worse actor out there.
In essence I'd let them know I'm an alcoholic and because I was very sick back then I couldn't be the friend they needed and deserved, and I regret my violation of their trust. I'm now a sober AA member and part of that process is to correct the harms I've done others in my past, and that I'll do my best not treat them that way again in the future.
Then listen to what they need to tell you without interrupting, if anything. If they bring up additional harms you address those.
You don't need to promise to now be their BFF, as often it's the last contact you'll have with them. It doesn't matter how they react, though they almost uniformly are glad to get your amends and wish you well.
Some amends are personal like this, but others are less so. If a business or institution was involved I tried to see a higher-up alone. If they initially refused their money I left their money anyway...and they always eventually take their money. The ones that were out of business or the people had vanished, I'd use their money to help out newcomers when appropriate. The ones who I decided would be harmed by my contact I would sometimes later run into and if they were put in front of me in that way I'd make the amends.
Also, I felt initially guilty when new for some events in which I had not behaved wrongly, but those events had gone bad. Running those by my sponsor removed quite a few names from my list. I was responsible for the harms done by my actions only, not in situations where I was involved and people were harmed by the actions of others or larger forces.
So, you deal what you need to deal with and be done with it. And maybe you can be grateful you weren't a worse actor out there.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
You don't have to get on your knees for the prayer to count. Keep praying.
If you can't be honest with you sponsor of all people ..... well, time to get a new one. Think about that.
When you say the serenity prayer, you're asking for serenity, courage, and wisdom. You need those same things when preparing to make amends.
Remember, your list of resentments on your 4th is not an automatic list of amends you must make on the 9th. It's a starting point for your list.
Keep working with your sponsor and praying until you have the courage and strength and wisdom. You can do this.
If you can't be honest with you sponsor of all people ..... well, time to get a new one. Think about that.
When you say the serenity prayer, you're asking for serenity, courage, and wisdom. You need those same things when preparing to make amends.
Remember, your list of resentments on your 4th is not an automatic list of amends you must make on the 9th. It's a starting point for your list.
Keep working with your sponsor and praying until you have the courage and strength and wisdom. You can do this.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 325
I felt very similar to you when it was time to do my 9th step. I hadn't done anything major to anyone but had done a lot of messed up things in retaliation and also to ex-girlfriends. Like you, I was worried the most about telling all these people that I was in recovery. A lot of my amends were towards active alcoholics, heavy drinkers, and others who hated my guts. I didn't want to give all these people "ammo" to use against me by telling them that I had a problem with drinking.
In the end, I had to trust my sponsor who had 27 years of sobriety. I ended up making the amends as best I could and would always start the amends with, "As part of my recovery....". What happened a lot is that "my recovery" was not even asked about and they were happy to hear from me in a better light. Some ex's that I harmed were happy for me and took my amends positively, other drinking people asked how they could help or told about their problems with drinking, and some amends didn't go so well. A couple of the amends that went "bad" were the people who wanted nothing to do with me, so I never got to make amends. Maybe sometime in the future.
I've since been asked about AA and have been happy to talk about it. I'm still in my 20's, so a lot of old drinking buddies now have a resource for sobriety. Before I stopped drinking in late 2010, no one around me even considered sobriety an option. Now it will be easier in the future for those to have evidence that it can be done and how it can be done.
Lastly, I've realized that talking about recovery will only hurt me if I decide to drink again. If I truly want to work the program and be in recovery, than making the amends and talking about AA will only help me in the future.
In the end, I had to trust my sponsor who had 27 years of sobriety. I ended up making the amends as best I could and would always start the amends with, "As part of my recovery....". What happened a lot is that "my recovery" was not even asked about and they were happy to hear from me in a better light. Some ex's that I harmed were happy for me and took my amends positively, other drinking people asked how they could help or told about their problems with drinking, and some amends didn't go so well. A couple of the amends that went "bad" were the people who wanted nothing to do with me, so I never got to make amends. Maybe sometime in the future.
I've since been asked about AA and have been happy to talk about it. I'm still in my 20's, so a lot of old drinking buddies now have a resource for sobriety. Before I stopped drinking in late 2010, no one around me even considered sobriety an option. Now it will be easier in the future for those to have evidence that it can be done and how it can be done.
Lastly, I've realized that talking about recovery will only hurt me if I decide to drink again. If I truly want to work the program and be in recovery, than making the amends and talking about AA will only help me in the future.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Ibern,
I'm glad you posted this, because I am in a very similar situation and have been wondering if I am lying to myself or what.
I was in active drug abuse for two years. My other addictions, while serious or even life threatening to me, didn't much impact others.
Do I make amends to my siblings because I ate more than my fair share of twinkies as a kid? I didn't use illegal drugs, so there are no legal amends to make. I didn't drink and drive. I did not put the financial well being of my family at risk, nor did I steal.
I feel like my amends are mostly my husband, we are in the process of divorce, and my children.
In one of the "big books" for another 12 step program I am in, an example is given of a man who told a falsehood to a therapist in college. One of those situations where rather than saying he himself had a situation, he said that so and so had a situation. He said this to on one but the therapist, but twenty years later found the man and told him that he'd said that thing and wanted to apologize. Now, I think that's crazy. I mean why even let this guy know. It didn't truly impact him, and now his mind is going to have this stupid factoid from 20 yrs ago swimming round in it.
Have I every said a bad word about someone. Yes. Or had an unloving thought? yes...but how would hunting them down and admitting it truly be amending anything. I think it would make them feel worse. Not towards me necessarily, but about themselves, or paranoid.
My sponsor is much more of a pay it forward type, learn from it and move on, and don't burden others with your guilt, sort.
He didn't want to hear all the nitty gritty details of my life in my fifth step, he wanted me to determine my defects, not unload four decades of crappy behavior onto HIM. For awhile I stressed over this, because I kept hearing about and reading about people who spent 12 hours etc reading their fourth step to a sponsor. And I kept thinking that I was doing it wrong, and I won't recover, etc etc.
My sponsor has well over 20 yrs of sobriety and has sponsored many many people. So...can I trust his judgement? Or do I go off on my own way?
I feel guilty for some of the situations that arose between my spouse and I during our marriage. Now I wonder if I should just let him take everything in the divorce to make up for it. I know I have a defect of magical thinking. Allowing myself to get caught up in the idea that a ritual or formula will guarantee a particular result. And I think that can easily crop up during this step. Rush out and try to "pay" for everything I've done to guarantee my recovery.
Step 8 is to be WILLING to make amends. Step 9 makes it clear that those amends not bring harm to anyone. For now I am going to count on my sponsor to help me make wise discernment. As I grow in recovery I trust that I will begin too see more clearly and deal with things I've missed as they arise.
I'm glad you posted this, because I am in a very similar situation and have been wondering if I am lying to myself or what.
I was in active drug abuse for two years. My other addictions, while serious or even life threatening to me, didn't much impact others.
Do I make amends to my siblings because I ate more than my fair share of twinkies as a kid? I didn't use illegal drugs, so there are no legal amends to make. I didn't drink and drive. I did not put the financial well being of my family at risk, nor did I steal.
I feel like my amends are mostly my husband, we are in the process of divorce, and my children.
In one of the "big books" for another 12 step program I am in, an example is given of a man who told a falsehood to a therapist in college. One of those situations where rather than saying he himself had a situation, he said that so and so had a situation. He said this to on one but the therapist, but twenty years later found the man and told him that he'd said that thing and wanted to apologize. Now, I think that's crazy. I mean why even let this guy know. It didn't truly impact him, and now his mind is going to have this stupid factoid from 20 yrs ago swimming round in it.
Have I every said a bad word about someone. Yes. Or had an unloving thought? yes...but how would hunting them down and admitting it truly be amending anything. I think it would make them feel worse. Not towards me necessarily, but about themselves, or paranoid.
My sponsor is much more of a pay it forward type, learn from it and move on, and don't burden others with your guilt, sort.
He didn't want to hear all the nitty gritty details of my life in my fifth step, he wanted me to determine my defects, not unload four decades of crappy behavior onto HIM. For awhile I stressed over this, because I kept hearing about and reading about people who spent 12 hours etc reading their fourth step to a sponsor. And I kept thinking that I was doing it wrong, and I won't recover, etc etc.
My sponsor has well over 20 yrs of sobriety and has sponsored many many people. So...can I trust his judgement? Or do I go off on my own way?
I feel guilty for some of the situations that arose between my spouse and I during our marriage. Now I wonder if I should just let him take everything in the divorce to make up for it. I know I have a defect of magical thinking. Allowing myself to get caught up in the idea that a ritual or formula will guarantee a particular result. And I think that can easily crop up during this step. Rush out and try to "pay" for everything I've done to guarantee my recovery.
Step 8 is to be WILLING to make amends. Step 9 makes it clear that those amends not bring harm to anyone. For now I am going to count on my sponsor to help me make wise discernment. As I grow in recovery I trust that I will begin too see more clearly and deal with things I've missed as they arise.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by PaperDolls
If you can't be honest with you sponsor of all people ..... well, time to get a new one. Think about that.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm going to a meeting this afternoon and I'm going to share about it there and see what other advice I can get...
-L
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
Man I blew it w/ 2 of my amends. I called one gal up bawling... I do think now I did it more for me than her at the time. UGH! I skipped ahead and called her w/ a month or so sober.... it didn't go too well, and she still doesn't really talk to me....mine was gossip related cuz of my BIG mouth when using. Make sure you take direction from your sponsor.
blessings, Sheila
blessings, Sheila
And, I totally relate.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Hi ibern
These steps may raise some difficult issues for a person in recovery. Suppose for example, that drinking might have resulted in death (such as in an automobile accident) and that the drinking offender may have been found “not guilty” due to a failure to establish guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt”. To “make amends” might be an admission of guilt which could prejudice a civil action for damages and violate the terms of any insurance, exposing the recovering alcoholic to liability, and this, in turn, might increase, rather than decrease the risk of relapse. Even apart from such facts, if an attempt to make amends would likely result in a hostile exchange, reopening old wounds and thus be counterproductive, hurting rather than benefitting the person harmed, then the matter should be carefully reconsidered. Such cases seem to fall within the exception “except when to do so would injure them or others”. A way around such difficulties, at least where money is involved, might be to find some way to reimburse the injured party anonymously by means of a third party, such as an attorney. Over all, the process should try to emphasize the generation of good will and forgiveness, with both the alcoholic and the injured party shaking hands and letting bygones be bygones. It may come as a surprise how many persons, even though having been hurt by another, may be willing to understand and forgive, respect or even admire the courage and honesty that they see has come from recovery. If making amends has such a positive outcome then this appears to be beneficial. If the issue is in doubt then the matter should be approached with caution. Obviously something which should be discussed with your sponsor but remember, it's always up to you to make the final decision, as it was up to you to stop drinking. Good luck on this!
W.
These steps may raise some difficult issues for a person in recovery. Suppose for example, that drinking might have resulted in death (such as in an automobile accident) and that the drinking offender may have been found “not guilty” due to a failure to establish guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt”. To “make amends” might be an admission of guilt which could prejudice a civil action for damages and violate the terms of any insurance, exposing the recovering alcoholic to liability, and this, in turn, might increase, rather than decrease the risk of relapse. Even apart from such facts, if an attempt to make amends would likely result in a hostile exchange, reopening old wounds and thus be counterproductive, hurting rather than benefitting the person harmed, then the matter should be carefully reconsidered. Such cases seem to fall within the exception “except when to do so would injure them or others”. A way around such difficulties, at least where money is involved, might be to find some way to reimburse the injured party anonymously by means of a third party, such as an attorney. Over all, the process should try to emphasize the generation of good will and forgiveness, with both the alcoholic and the injured party shaking hands and letting bygones be bygones. It may come as a surprise how many persons, even though having been hurt by another, may be willing to understand and forgive, respect or even admire the courage and honesty that they see has come from recovery. If making amends has such a positive outcome then this appears to be beneficial. If the issue is in doubt then the matter should be approached with caution. Obviously something which should be discussed with your sponsor but remember, it's always up to you to make the final decision, as it was up to you to stop drinking. Good luck on this!
W.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 609
Late on this but thanks for bringing it up, as I think it's a difficult step for many people - and thanks for the great answers this received. I always tried to make amends for what I reasonably could, beyond that I think you have to forgive yourself and move on.
I thought that I was the one who was primarily hurt by my alcohol abuse, I'd never done anything too overtly dysfunctional, was very lucky not to cause serious damage. But I became more aware in sobriety had my alcohol addiction had affected relationships around me, in terms of not being able to really be there for others.
I thought that I was the one who was primarily hurt by my alcohol abuse, I'd never done anything too overtly dysfunctional, was very lucky not to cause serious damage. But I became more aware in sobriety had my alcohol addiction had affected relationships around me, in terms of not being able to really be there for others.
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