1 year, or NOT (man oh man, this should be LOTS of responses)
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
I'm thinking of a something that happened a year or two after I quit drinking, when I was still in AA.
There was a young woman coming to the meetings who had quit drinking maybe nine months earlier, and at a meeting she mentioned (rather casually, actually) that she still smoked an occasional joint.
The reaction was immediate, as those present universally "called her on her sh$t", told her she wasn't sober, and generally abused her. She sat there stunned.
The following week she came back. It was a discussion meeting, and when the chair asked if anyone had a topic, she raised her hand. Then she stood up and threw all of her accumulated chips on the table.
She told the group that she was horrified at what had happened the previous week. That she'd never felt so judged and unsupported in her life. That she was appalled and disgusted by what had happened to her the previous week and that she was leaving and never coming back.
And she walked out of the room.
AND SHE DRANK.
She did quit drinking again a few years later, after a couple more DUIs and a failed marriage.
Good result? I don't think so. I'm sure there will be some AAs who will say that the problem was that she'd been depending on people rather than God and so forth, but I don't see it that way.
I see it as a situation where someone showed up for support with a drinking problem, in a support group that touts its Singleness of Purpose, got abused because of an Outside Issue, and drank.
Maybe something to think about for people who want to boycott someone for not "doing it right".
There was a young woman coming to the meetings who had quit drinking maybe nine months earlier, and at a meeting she mentioned (rather casually, actually) that she still smoked an occasional joint.
The reaction was immediate, as those present universally "called her on her sh$t", told her she wasn't sober, and generally abused her. She sat there stunned.
The following week she came back. It was a discussion meeting, and when the chair asked if anyone had a topic, she raised her hand. Then she stood up and threw all of her accumulated chips on the table.
She told the group that she was horrified at what had happened the previous week. That she'd never felt so judged and unsupported in her life. That she was appalled and disgusted by what had happened to her the previous week and that she was leaving and never coming back.
And she walked out of the room.
AND SHE DRANK.
She did quit drinking again a few years later, after a couple more DUIs and a failed marriage.
Good result? I don't think so. I'm sure there will be some AAs who will say that the problem was that she'd been depending on people rather than God and so forth, but I don't see it that way.
I see it as a situation where someone showed up for support with a drinking problem, in a support group that touts its Singleness of Purpose, got abused because of an Outside Issue, and drank.
Maybe something to think about for people who want to boycott someone for not "doing it right".
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
Ott, a different interpretation would be that the AAs knew that people who get loaded eventually get drunk, and she didn't want to hear that she was on a bad course. She felt people should only tell her what she would like to hear or be silent about it, and thought they would care if she kept her trinkets or didn't keep her meaningless trinkets. Wrong on both counts. 'And she walked out of the room'...what a drama queen.
Of course she drank. On a hair trigger, getting loaded, and too removed to have gotten honest about the dope thing earlier or picked up that it's a bad idea.
She could have listened to the group experience but didn't. Too bad for her. Sounds like believing her own BS cost her more drunken time, a marriage and some legal trouble.
There's a difference between blanket support and recovery from alcoholism. She ignorantly believed support was what she needed. She rejected recovery, which is what she needed at the time. It was entirely her right to stay screwed up and get sidetracked since she insisted on rejecting a better path., something no one should have lifted a finger to deny her.
People have the right to be wrong, choose wrongly, get sicker, add more drinking disasters to their lives, be drama queens, and cry about the injustice of people daring to offer them a better way instead of continuing their failure prone choices made out of ignorance.
Letting newcomers continue to confidently bet on a clearly losing hand and tell them they are wonderful would be a cruel thing to do. What the drama prone miss is that only the similarly foolish care at all if these people leave a room or stay.
Interfering with the oncoming disasters that people bring on themselves by their actions or inaction is something I'm philosophically opposed to doing. It's nice when people make good choices and enlarge their understandings enough to avoid choosing poorly for themselves, and get great results from doing things to recover from alcoholism, but I've long ago gotten used to watching most people choose otherwise, and it's really none of my business either way.
Like this woman. We can say the things, but she and all newcomers can certainly refuse to listen. Ultimately and inevitably she pays a heavy price for believing her sick head. Glad she didn't make herself suffer any worse than she did. Could have been much worse, as so often is for newcomers who get themselves in a huff, run off and get drunk again instead of opening their minds.
Kind of cool when the opposite occurs. Glad I stayed when my sensitivities were raw and I was give various truths to choke down past my ego.
Of course she drank. On a hair trigger, getting loaded, and too removed to have gotten honest about the dope thing earlier or picked up that it's a bad idea.
She could have listened to the group experience but didn't. Too bad for her. Sounds like believing her own BS cost her more drunken time, a marriage and some legal trouble.
There's a difference between blanket support and recovery from alcoholism. She ignorantly believed support was what she needed. She rejected recovery, which is what she needed at the time. It was entirely her right to stay screwed up and get sidetracked since she insisted on rejecting a better path., something no one should have lifted a finger to deny her.
People have the right to be wrong, choose wrongly, get sicker, add more drinking disasters to their lives, be drama queens, and cry about the injustice of people daring to offer them a better way instead of continuing their failure prone choices made out of ignorance.
Letting newcomers continue to confidently bet on a clearly losing hand and tell them they are wonderful would be a cruel thing to do. What the drama prone miss is that only the similarly foolish care at all if these people leave a room or stay.
Interfering with the oncoming disasters that people bring on themselves by their actions or inaction is something I'm philosophically opposed to doing. It's nice when people make good choices and enlarge their understandings enough to avoid choosing poorly for themselves, and get great results from doing things to recover from alcoholism, but I've long ago gotten used to watching most people choose otherwise, and it's really none of my business either way.
Like this woman. We can say the things, but she and all newcomers can certainly refuse to listen. Ultimately and inevitably she pays a heavy price for believing her sick head. Glad she didn't make herself suffer any worse than she did. Could have been much worse, as so often is for newcomers who get themselves in a huff, run off and get drunk again instead of opening their minds.
Kind of cool when the opposite occurs. Glad I stayed when my sensitivities were raw and I was give various truths to choke down past my ego.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 120
I agree with your point of view Langkah,
Furthermore, If I saw a bunch of recovering AA's trying to enforce Tradition 3, picking up their yearly coins, then going out after the meeting to share a marijuana joint, I believe believe AA's (as a whole) would and should have a huge problem with it. AA Big Book chapter Doctor's Opinion p. XXX states "the only relief we have to suggest is ENTIRE abstinence." Find another support group that agrees with alcohol sobriety but condones recreational pot smoking. AA is not and should not be one of those places.
Furthermore, If I saw a bunch of recovering AA's trying to enforce Tradition 3, picking up their yearly coins, then going out after the meeting to share a marijuana joint, I believe believe AA's (as a whole) would and should have a huge problem with it. AA Big Book chapter Doctor's Opinion p. XXX states "the only relief we have to suggest is ENTIRE abstinence." Find another support group that agrees with alcohol sobriety but condones recreational pot smoking. AA is not and should not be one of those places.
dopeless hope fiend
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here. Now.
Posts: 1,021
the first time i got sober i became indignant when, after telling him i'd smoked pot, my sponsor told me that i shouldn't be doing that. i also ignored that he told me to keep coming to the meetings and that we needed to get together to talk and read the big book. Nope, he was in my business and i had been wronged! Well, he ended up being correct in his concerns as i soon drank and continued on to do worse. Also, i was too full of myself to see that he wasn't judging me, and all he wanted to do was help me recover.
It wasn't about him.
But staging protests and creating a spectacle is making it about you. Like anything else there's an ego driven way and a spiritual way to handle a situation. It's not right for me to try to embarass someone because they're doing something that i feel is dangerous for them. But it's also not right for me to just stand idly by. If a friend or sponsee is engaging in a behavior that i feel is dangerous for them i am going to talk to them about it. And i expect them to do the same for me. We look out for eachother like family. Sometimes our perceptions end up incorrect, but if done in love, not ego, it always works out in the end.
A few months ago my sponsor confronted me about making a life decision(moving) without talking to him first. I felt strongly that i was in a place that the decision was well thought out, and that i hadn't talked to him simply because it hadn't come it. He let me know that he did so because he cares about me, and wanted to make sure that everything i was doing was truly in my best interest, and not my disease run amok. I appreciated the conversation and our relationship has grown stronger as a result. I recently had to do something similar towards him.
Had he made it public through gossip channels or try to embarrass me, the result would've been completely different and i'd likely have a new sponsor.
It wasn't about him.
But staging protests and creating a spectacle is making it about you. Like anything else there's an ego driven way and a spiritual way to handle a situation. It's not right for me to try to embarass someone because they're doing something that i feel is dangerous for them. But it's also not right for me to just stand idly by. If a friend or sponsee is engaging in a behavior that i feel is dangerous for them i am going to talk to them about it. And i expect them to do the same for me. We look out for eachother like family. Sometimes our perceptions end up incorrect, but if done in love, not ego, it always works out in the end.
A few months ago my sponsor confronted me about making a life decision(moving) without talking to him first. I felt strongly that i was in a place that the decision was well thought out, and that i hadn't talked to him simply because it hadn't come it. He let me know that he did so because he cares about me, and wanted to make sure that everything i was doing was truly in my best interest, and not my disease run amok. I appreciated the conversation and our relationship has grown stronger as a result. I recently had to do something similar towards him.
Had he made it public through gossip channels or try to embarrass me, the result would've been completely different and i'd likely have a new sponsor.
polyaddicted cocanut
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Dixie
Posts: 781
yeah the whole "boycott" thing is completely childish. There have been people at my meetings who I knew were using; but besides an occasional private discussion about it it was never a "boycott" or let's all point fingers and bash the individual. Recovery is there, they can take it or leave it. If they want to celebrate a year of sobriety and still smoke pot, then let them. You can tell them how you feel about it and why you think it is harmful, but there's no use in making a scene in front of everyone
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
So how does the "boycott" idea square with Singleness of Purpose?
I have seen people ejected from meetings for saying their problem was something other than alcohol, because the program is Only About Alcohol.
But if it's Only About Alcohol when someone is getting ejected, how come it's suddenly about Marijuana when it comes time to give out the chips? Seems mighty inconsistent to me.
And what about Bill W? How do you square this "no other substances" thing with the fact that the guy who wrote the basic text used LSD?
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not championing drug use, marijuana or anything else. What I do champion, though, is honesty. Truth in advertising. If you're going to tie the definition of sobriety to something other than alcohol use, then say so. And stop calling it Alcoholics Anonymous. Call it Everything (Except Nicotine, Caffeine and Refined Sugar) Anonymous, if that's what it really is.
I have seen people ejected from meetings for saying their problem was something other than alcohol, because the program is Only About Alcohol.
But if it's Only About Alcohol when someone is getting ejected, how come it's suddenly about Marijuana when it comes time to give out the chips? Seems mighty inconsistent to me.
And what about Bill W? How do you square this "no other substances" thing with the fact that the guy who wrote the basic text used LSD?
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not championing drug use, marijuana or anything else. What I do champion, though, is honesty. Truth in advertising. If you're going to tie the definition of sobriety to something other than alcohol use, then say so. And stop calling it Alcoholics Anonymous. Call it Everything (Except Nicotine, Caffeine and Refined Sugar) Anonymous, if that's what it really is.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
The problem I always found with the tough love approach is that while it may work in the case of a thick skinned, stubborn individual it might not work so well with a fragile, broken person. You can not simply project the notion that all members of the group have the same characteristics as people can be as different as night and day. If you have someone on the edge, your tough love might push them over the edge. To humilate a person in front of a group makes no sense at all.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
This has been an interesting thread!
Very recently, I was engaged with a similar problem with a guy whom I consider part of my support group at my home meeting. He had used a substance other than alcohol for the purpose of changing how he felt. We talked briefly about whether he should reset his time.
Working with people face to face is much different than what we do here on SR. It's real and in the flesh... on line, at least for me, seems more abstract. I was not able to apply my experience with the topic that I got here... because, really, it didn't seem to count. For me, at the time, F2F...
Currently my opinion on this topic is... If a member of AA feels they should reset their time and come to the group with it, then that's what they should do... If not, it's none of my business and not up to me. Because then, it would be too much like a therapuetic community, and that's not what AA is.
Very recently, I was engaged with a similar problem with a guy whom I consider part of my support group at my home meeting. He had used a substance other than alcohol for the purpose of changing how he felt. We talked briefly about whether he should reset his time.
Working with people face to face is much different than what we do here on SR. It's real and in the flesh... on line, at least for me, seems more abstract. I was not able to apply my experience with the topic that I got here... because, really, it didn't seem to count. For me, at the time, F2F...
Currently my opinion on this topic is... If a member of AA feels they should reset their time and come to the group with it, then that's what they should do... If not, it's none of my business and not up to me. Because then, it would be too much like a therapuetic community, and that's not what AA is.
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