Americat

Okay, I will make this as brief as possible.

Joined AA in September. Almost completed the 90 Meetings in 90 Days. Got to 87, but had to go home for a funeral. Went back, completed the 90 Days, and still attend four to five times a week to this day.

Got a home group.

Attended all business meetings.

Signed up for service, including sandwiches, greeting, etc...

Got a sponsor. Completed a written Step One.

My sponsor then "fired" me because she relapsed, and "couldn't deal". Okay, fair enough.

Got another sponsor.

In the meantime, I'm attending all meetings, doing all service that is required, but at the same time seeing my family doctor. She recommends I go on Naltrexone (for cravings and mood). I share this at the next closed discussion meeting.

New sponsor "fires" me, saying she's not on board with drugs, prescription or not. And why don't I have a higher power? Clearly I'm blocking myself from accepting God, which is why I relapsed once, according to her.

Get a new sponsor. Keep attending meetings. Keep doing service.

Completed Step One again, this time going into even more excruciating and specific detail.

Was informed by my new sponsor that this was "good stuff!", and she enjoyed reading it, but she could not make the next two meetings, and perhaps we could meet the Saturday after next?

I'm sorry, I truly went into this with absolute goodwill and a burning desire to get better, but all I've gotten out of it is shame, guilt, a desire to drink again, and the overwhelming feeling that...you know what? This really *is* some weird sorta cult filled with flakes.

Sapling

I started AA in July...Have had one sponsor...Worked the 12 steps...Never relapsed...And these flakes are some of the best friends I've ever had. I enjoy the meetings and I take no drugs. Maybe you should try something else....The door is always open if that doesn't work for you. Best of luck.

Americat

And, btw, for anyone looking to join the program, it's not "free". At least not in my city (which is a pretty major one).

Aside from the emotionally-taxing weird and mounting pressure/guilt/shame/God stuff, etc...

There is a basket passed around at every meeting, and it's not like you can hide your offering in an envelope. Just like when you have to clasp the hands of the people beside you at the end with the 'keep coming back' arm-swing, you have to face them as you make your donation.

All meetings. Open, closed, day, night, service, non-service, etc... Even freaking business meetings, which you are urged to attend as soon as possible. These generally take place *before* the meeting.

I actually attended a business meeting where someone moved that collection (or, I'm sorry, they call it the warmer and fuzzier 'seventh tradition') be pushed back so that people could leave without being pressured to pay. There was just about mutiny.

So, if you do your 90 in 90 (a minimum recommended), plus attend business meetings, plus do service (in my case, I was given eight dollars to make sandwiches for two hundred people--needless to say I went way over budget...lol), plus buy books, then count on contributing at least a hundred or two hundred bucks a month...

dawnrunner

Your sponsors are giving you written homework? Is this the norm?

In my neck of the woods, the sponsor is a resource, a mentor when you need a bit of advice, but above all someone you can call at times of need.

Did you find the meetings themselves beneficial, apart from the sponsor issues?

langkah

Interesting 1st post. My AA experience has been the opposite.

Americat

Hi, Dawnrunner. Thanks for your response. I did (and still do) actually find some of the meetings beneficial, especially the 'closed' ones, where it's a little less structured, and people share about how they are coping. I don't know how it works in your home group, but in mine, usually this is done after we take turns reading part of a step, and ideally, you are supposed to relate your 'share' to the text.

As I said, I live in a very large urban area, so there are lots of meetings. I think I've attended every one at least once. They range from loosey goosey, hippy dippy meditation to very strict Big Book recommendations.

I have to say, though, that the thing they all have in common is an almost weird cultlike adherence to *rules*, higher power, annoyingly repetitive cliches (i.e. stinkin' thinkin', my best thinkin' got me here, etc...) "no one can help you but us", "if you don't do what we say, you'll go back out" statements, etc...

There is NO question that a lot of very nice, kind and well-meaning people are members of this organizaiton. But I think a newcomer should be prepared to face the fact that (at least in my experience, in my home group, in my city, in my network) there will be pressure and cost associated with joining.

Americat

Oh, and as for the written homework, yes, all three. It's apparently part of the NOVALCO plan. Not sure if this is exclusive to my area or not.

keithj

Americat,

I was urged early on in AA to disregard anything that couldn't be backed up in the BB. You're going to hear all sorts of whacky things from well-meaning, but misguided members who have never really had an experience with the 12 Steps. It's not their fault; they were given the same lousy sponsorship that you seem to be getting.

I had to find a sponsor that talked about the hopelessness of alcoholism and the spiritual awakening the comes from taking the 12 Steps. I had to look around a little bit. The 12 Step forum on this site has some solid folks posting to it, and they can give you an idea of what to be looking for in AA. It's not nearly so complicated as it sounds like you are hearing. There are very solid groups out there that don't do a lot of arm swinging and stick to the program of recovery as it's laid out in the BB.

LoftyIdeals

Americat. I'm sorry your experience has been as it has. I have been in and out of AA for 28 yrs, and have never had an experience like that. But, on the other hand, I've never chosen to follow some of the rigid tenets of the program as fastidiously as you have. I know you were probably just following directions, but it is YOU that is getting sober, not the program. I didn't follow the 90 in 90 tenet, or get a sponsor, or get involved in meetign organization, or even volunteer for coffee making, etc., until I found the meeting that I liked, which was only 5 month ago. I got my first sponsor 4 months ago.

28 yrs ago, I went to a rehab facility in Virginia that utilized both AA and cognitive based therapy techniques. There was no major emphasis put on one method over the other. When I completed the in-patient program, I returned to my small, rural college town, and did not identify at all with the grey haired folks in the room of the couple meetings held each week. After a year and a half, I relapsed, but I still don't think it had to do with attending or not attending meetings.

My point is, your sobriety is yours and yours alone. And, it's up to you to make a decision to have it and keep it, or not. I like the fellowship of AA and enjoy many of the friendships I'm making, but it's because I don't look to the program itself to gauge my success in sobriety. I see it as an added benefit to the sobriety I've already decided to have.

I agree that there are some ritualistic aspects of AA. I think 90 in 90 is one of them, and I don't agree with it. I don't think recovery is about brainwashing. But, there are ritualistic natures to a lot of our lives; church, sometimes job, etc. I am fiercely independent in thought. I've found that when I put my trust in faith in another's program, I'm gonna be let down at some point, and be in danger of giving up, having wasted my time.

I can tell that you are serious about your sobriety. Please don't feel that it depends on AA. It doesn't. It depends on you. I'd urge you to take from AA what you like, and leave the rest behind. But leave an open mind that you might like it in the future, as you grow in sobriety.

I'd also urge you to read as much non-AA literature about alcoholism as you do the Big Book and others.

AA has great value, but it's not for everyone. And, for folks like me, it's another tool that I have at my disposal to help keep me sober.

I hope this helps. I admire your tenacity for doing what the folks in your local program told you to do. But, maybe a little original thought would help you in your journey to remain sober.

Mark75

90 in 90 isn't AA. Neither is the idea of no medications.

As keith said... AA is in the book.

Americat

Thanks, Keith. Though my comments may seem negative (since I'm not a fan of everything that goes on in meetings), I am still attending, and still hoping against hope that this will work for me. I am happy to contribute, financially, emotionally, physically, whatever is asked, etc...

But I won't lie--a few things bug me, namely:

Being told I have to get a sponsor (which I have now done three times), or it won't work. And then when I get a sponsor, after having disclosed excruciatingly painful and personal details, having them flake out and go away.

Being told "oh, it's okay, you don't have to have a higher power, just believe in the group or your pencil eraser", only to then be dismissed because I don't have a clear concept of God.

Hearing the same silly nonsense like 'stinkin' thinkin', etc..., but not being able to even comment on the cliches, or I'm being too "intellectual"...

Being told to get brutally honest, but when I do so (case in point, the prescription my doctor recommended), being told that maybe I shouldn't have disclosed that....

Spinosus

Are you seriously contributing 1 or 2 hundred dollars a month?

Americat

Yep, I am, sadly. Just last night it was a medallion, and so we all had to bring food, aside from the sandwiches, and aside from the daily basket contribution. Sorry for failing to respond to the above posts. I replied to Keith, but didn't see the comments below.

Spinosus

I think you need to set some boundries and learn to assert yourself a little better. And get to know someone a bit better before asking them to be your sponser. And find a new home group, the one you're going to sounds really awful. And contributing that much is not normal. Where is all that money going? In the basket? I put about 10 bucks a month into the basket of my home group, if that.

desertsong

I'm sorry you are having such a bad experience. I have heard both good and bad things about AA, and it seems to have a lot to do with the home group that you choose. I live in a small town and I guess I am very fortunate to have found a wonderful home group and a sponsor who is rock solid, having sponsored at least a dozen people over the last few years (who are all still sober). Every group has its flakes, for sure, but the majority of the folks in my group have been tremendously supportive and there is a lot of solidarity there. I guess everyone has their own way ... AA is working for me, and maybe a lot of it has to do with my group, my sponsor, and my strong faith in God. I don't mind putting a couple bucks into the basket at the end of every meeting and yes, while some of the "sayings" are a bit cheesy, you gotta admit they have truth to them. I agree with what some of the others have said in terms of keeping with the Big Book. My group works right out of the BB and my sponsor and I go over it together once a week. I haven't been given any "homework" yet and don't know if I will be, but I've been doing my own homework in a sense by keeping a journal about my "sober journey" and another notebook in which I write down things I'm learning from the BB.

I guess my point is that AA isn't for everyone and if it's causing you this much upset, then perhaps you need another path. Maybe try another group or two, and see if it's better than the one you're in now? And if that still doesn't feel right, there are other resources, including SR. Good luck to you.

OceanSize

i've had a few experiences that could be classified as weird in the last almost-5 months in which i've been working the AA program for sobriety (some of which i've documented in my forum posts). My sobriety goes outside the confines of "primary purpose" (alcohol) and reaches into emotional sobriety, and sobriety from certain drugs (pill popper here, hi all). I've found that there are parts of the program i have a problem with (only a few) - I fear taking any of my support network members to an open meeting because of the handholding at the end (it's definitely not my normal character to hold hands in a circle and pray). But in reality, it's a program to which I am willing to surrender because, frankly, it's working for me right now.

I am anonymous so my life outside of AA is unaware that i'm in the program, although multiple coworkers and friends have commented that i seem happier, different, and ....not drinking/using/walking around overtly depressed all the time. My desire to live a good full relaxed (spiritual?) life is starting to show because it is the way i am living.

I haven't heard any sayings that don't make sense - i haven't heard "if you don't do what we say you will relapse" messages - but maybe that's because if i did, i'd likely ignore it.

My tendency is to rely on "take what you need, leave the rest" - so i do just that.

I just finished my 5th step, and i do feel different. I've tried many things over the last 25 years to stop wanting to die, to stop taking action to die. For the first time ever i'm taking action to live, and to live without the feeling of intense burden and fear to say the least. for the first time since i was 6 years old, i've been happy to implement new ideas behind how to solve internal and external problems that do not involve my default "i wish i was dead" kind of thoughts.

I don't know why this is happening now, or how much is attributable to AA, but I do know that working this program, along with therapy and a group therapy i also joined....has thus far made some kind of difference, it's a difference i enjoy, and i haven't had a drink of alcohol or popped a narcotic in almost 5 months. I've been to a few bars in the last few weeks, just to hang out with friends, and i haven't even been tempted to ask for a drink other than club soda or water.

There aren't supposed to be any rules in AA, and i latch on to that. Very often when i'm knee deep in my disease, I know i'm there because i try to find reasons to battle my chances at recovery. I know that's AA-speak, but the more i realize how much of my (our) disease has affected the way I've lived, the more i want to learn a new way to live.

As for money, i very often pass the basket without putting anything in it. I'm in a large city and to the best of my knowledge each group primarily passes the basket to pay rent to the space. Leftover money goes toward literature. there are very few paid positions ("special workers") in AA, so my angst about money (i was weirded out by basket passing too) has been totally alleviated by the realization that the only people who profit from the basket passing are addicts and alcoholics. And i guess that's ok by me.

Lastly, as for business meetings - because there are no actual governing bodies, business meetings are HARD! My suggestion is for you to stop going to business meetings if you continue with AA at all.

Bummer about your sponsors. Your story just proves to me how sick we all are. I know you know this by now, but if you stick with it, try to find a sponsor who has what you want.

Most importantly, find whatever works for you so you can save your life and the lives of those around you - we torture our loved ones (i'm an alanon too). If it's aa, awesome. if it's some other form of rehabilitation, awesome.

best of luck always. I'm sorry to hear about this but I do believe in your ability to recovery, regardless. There are many ways to go about recovery and best of luck to you and yours in finding whatever it is you need to recover.

did i mention the handholding weirds me out too? it totally does. then again, my first week of sobriety i held hands with a Hell's Angel. whoddathunkit? I kinda figured if that Hell's Angel holds hands and says "keep coming back" i can do it too.

ps my sponsor works a program right out of the Big Book - the only written assignments i've had so far have come straight from the book (step 4...)

mattparadise

Hello Americat,

I'm right there with you on this one. I really wanted the AA experience to work for me also. I dove in with the best intentions and went along with the advice that the other people gave me at these meetings for many months. Turns out I should have listened to me gut feeling and avoided AA like the plague. It just seemed a little too cult like for me.

Ok, you will find your share of creeps and weirdoes at these meetings. It's kind of like people watching in downtown Minneapolis. One guy told me "This program will save your life" as he was stomping out a cigarette and proceeding to light another. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of bad advice, but some good advice too.

In the end, I found that you don’t need a sponsor, the 12 steps, the big book etc… to stay sober or even recover. I’m a recovered alcoholic without these. Hence, I feel a little lied to. Being with good people is the key and weeding though the myths. SR right here on this website can give you that.

If you feel that AA could still work for you then continue forward with it. Good luck.

Mark75

Hey Americat...

If you still want to explore AA a little more... maybe suspend your final judgement until you've done more investigation... which, it appears you are doing.



There are some wacky sponsors, wacky sponsees and wacky people at AA. As they are everywhere..... Come on over to the 12 step forum here at SR... It helped me sort through the BS .... A lot. My experience at AA got better after I started really listening to some of the great posters here at SR

Tigger41

Listen. You don't need AA to get and stay sober. Many AA folks would like you to think so because they've bought in so deeply. The recovery rate in AA and the spontaneous recovery rate is essentially the same.

Figure out what you need to stay sober. If you want to stay sober there is some work you might have to do to figure out why you started/kept drinking so that you don't fall into the trap again. And you have to embrase your new life. Find joy and happiness in being sober.

I'm not going to AA but I use this site a lot. I have a higher power but don't feel like I have to tap into that all that much to stay sober. Mostly I feel like I have to tap into my committment to stay sober and have to keep reviewing why I stopped to being with.

Do what works for you - I also take Antabuse when I'm going into a situation where I think I'm going to be tempted. Many were like "Oh that's a crutch you should just so it by yourself - no drugs what so ever etc etc." I know what's going to work for me and anything that makes me more successful or makes this process easier for me I'm taking it because I in no way want to go back to drinking.

Good luck and take care.

onlythetruth

Americat:

I understand exactly what you are saying. AA is not a good fit for you. You don't like the philosophy, the common practices, or the general approach.

And that is ok. While AA helps some, it is simply not for everyone. It is perfectly ok if it is not for you.

While the AA members here are sharing their own, more positive experiences, and while no one can possibly argue with someone's experience, your life is yours and so is your recovery.

The thing I notice, though, is that there's a subtle, or perhaps not so subtle, implication in this whole discussion that something is wrong with you for feeling as you do, or that you need to "try harder", or go to different groups, or get yet another sponsor, or....

I would like to suggest something quite different.

There is nothing wrong with you for not liking AA....it's just that rejecting one recovery approach does not really help you deal with your addiction. So, AA isn't for you? Fine. What IS?

Fortunately, you've come to the right place to help you figure that out, because on this very forum are a good number of people who have recovered via different approaches. Some have used different recovery support groups (like SMART Recovery, LifeRing, SOS), some use the AVRT/RR method, some use Sober Recovery forums alone, some use a combination of approaches.

Hang around, explore, PM people, check out the Secular Connections forums, and most of all welcome to SR.