2ndchance2011

raq-
I have come to understand that we are urged to get at least a "temporary sponsor" when we come in, so we are not "whipping in the wind" so-to-speak. It's so hard in those initial days-so much to absorb. Just having someone that you can call once a day-even if you think you have nothing to say-we practice doing things that may be difficult-like picking up the phone, and just having a routing dialogue with someone. In practicing these simple things with another peoson we feel comfortable with, we are able to see that the network-or "fellowship" of alcoholics, of people just like you and me, is crucial to our survival....I know for me, after feeling so "different" and so much like I don't belong-for so long, I need to "undue or "un-teach" these ways and behaviors...I have done it alone far too long and I truly see thankfully, that I no longer have to. Read-and re-read this thread--there is powerful input here.

onlythetruth

Yes. I did not find them helpful, but I took them.

Sapling, the reality is that AA is not for everyone. I sense that you're searching for some sort of "gotcha!" here, but really...AA helps lots of folks, but it doesn't suit everyone. Good thing there are so many options these days!

MentalLoop

Raq - I think i can relate to what you are saying, and may even take it a step further. But.....before pontificating as a newbie (just rounding out 4 weeks), let me say that I have proven enough to myself that i may not see the whole picture yet, and in time this may all make sense.

Much like yourself, I can't understand this relevance that a sponsor will have for me. I know i can't drink responsibly, I know that I was headed down a bad path, and I know that every night as i start to feigned for liquor, and shove potato chips and spiced almonds in my mouth, it is all in an effort to replace the crave for liquor. Said another way - what exactly is this sponsor supposed to do for me that I already don't know? Above that, I have spent three and a half decades walling and protecting my ego from externalities that show my vulnerability and fragility. And I'm supposed to or even be capable of peeling every layer of my onion to a complete stranger???(and believe me, as I peel, I'll be crying). For good measure, let me also add that I don't understand this ****** power that "admitting i'm powerless over alcohol" and prayer will do for me. And for the record, i have met few people with a stronger faith or deference to god than myself. For the last 17 years i have tried to live by the code that I believe god wants us to live by, and every year of those 17 years for 110 days (that number is exact and intentional - not just a point I'm making), I undergo certain rituals specifically for the purpose of accepting god in my life. With that as a foundation, I still don't get what prayer will do....

Now here is the big BUT....I also believed that i was different than all you drunks. I also believed that my will power was unparalleled - hell I woke up 4 weeks ago and decided enough is enough. I also believed that because i haven't had any real negative consequence arise out of alcohol - either family wise, professionally or socially (hell quite the contrary), that i was just participating in this little skit because it was passing my time - kind of like Tyler Durden in Fight Club. Then i started reading posts, and have come to learn, that not only am i not unique, i am exactly following the drunks path. Every time i thought i was different, somebody defined my life in a few sentences. So either me and the poster are the only two non-alcoholics on this forum, or in fact I am a blazing drunk alcoholic!! I don't believe in coincidence, and seeing as over 300 posts that i have read all exactly describe me - well, i think i'm an alcoholic.

So what's my point. I think that all your doubt (my doubt) are par for the course, and that we are just not there yet or better said, ready yet to see the light that the sponsor, or prayer, or the acceptance that powerlessness brings. I think of myself as in infant in this process, and i'm starting to learn how to crawl, and soon will come baby steps, then walking, then running. Today i can't understand what I will see clearly tomorrow. Until then, i'm in no rush and I'm also not quick to dismiss that which i don't understand.

Just my two cents (or 50 as the case may be)

KarrieJay

I totally understand what you are saying there MentalLoop, as that's exactly where I'm coming from.

The only difference is that before joining this forum, I knew I was an alcoholic and I came here expecting to see similarities between my life and the lives of the posters. I just didn't understand what I needed to do to stop it.

But with respect to your comments about being "an infant in this process" - that's totally how I feel. As a result, I'm keeping an open mind about all that is suggested to me. It takes time to absorb and process all the messages. Frankly, I'm prepared to try just about anything to ensure that I remain sober.

Sapling

Not searching for a "gotcha"...Was just curious if you worked the program. I guess I am kind of looking for that rare person that those steps didn't work for. I just hadn't found one yet. I'm glad you found something that works for you. That is what's important.

miamifella

Sapling, there are a lot of us for whom 12-step programs did not work. You will find many of us on this site. As with most serious illnesses, not every treatment works with every patient.

However, it is still (I think) 12-step programs are the best place to start. And it was by step work that I realized that for my recovery I need an honesty, connection, and purpose that I could not find in a 12-step program. But I would not have known that if I had not given 12-step fellowships a fair shot.

I am learning that my experience is in no way unique.

2ndchance2011

Putting the drink down is just the "tip of the iceburg". The 12-Steps of AA offer a program for living. Someone explained it to me years back that made sense to me: "Our Higher Power is the teacher, AA is the school, the 12 steps are the study materials, the meetings are the class rooms and our sponsor is our tudor". Just as a brain surgeon must have certain qualifications to preform a succesful brain surgery, I must rely on those who have sucessfully gone before me in order to gain "contented sobriety", not just dryness. I no longer wish to be "left to my own devices".

onlythetruth

I don't think it's rare at all, actually. If you hang around this website, you'll find plenty of us.

keithj

The 12 Steps are the program of recovery in AA. Every person is free to take them or not, but they are how the recovered members of AA, well, recovered. Nobody has to go to AA, and nobody has to take the Steps. However, don't expect to recover like those that have taken them.

A number of people on this thread are offering their opinions of an experience that they have never had. Some of them, based on their writings here, have never taken Step 1. Yet, that doesn't seem to prevent them from commenting on how the Steps didn't work for them. I would strongly suggest, that if anyone wants to learn about AA, or recover in AA, they would do well to get their information from those that have recovered in AA, instead of those that are not involved in AA and haven't had a fundamental first Step experience in AA.

There's nothing wrong with not having a Step 1 experience. It just means that you haven't had that experience. The rest of the AA program (the 12 Steps) stems from that Step 1 experience, and will make little sense or be of little use without it.

onlythetruth

Keith, I was a member of AA for nine years.

I have taken all the steps. Multiple times.

I have read, and know, all of the literature intimately.

When I was in AA, I had a sponsor. I sponsored others. I did service (GSR plus secretary and treasurer positions in my home group).

I know AA extremely well.

Therefore, I feel that I have the right to comment on AA from a position of knowledge and experience. The fact that my experience was ultimately not positive (although I did learn some things that were helpful, and I did value the social support early on) does not invalidate it.

Terminally Unique

I have to agree there.

Terminally Unique

OTT,

I wouldn't worry too much about those who say that you are unqualified to comment on AA because you are no longer involved in it. It is pure Step-talk, intended to shut down all potential discussion. If the Holy Bible and G-d can be the subjects of discussion, surely a "spiritual, not religious" program can be as well.

miamifella

keithj--

You can only speak from your own experience. True I cannot recover the way someone in a 12-step program did. But conversely, you cannot recover like someone who is NOT in a 12-step program. One of the great things about this site is that people share a variety of experiences. When I started recovery, I thought that 12-step programs were the only way to recover. I spent over 7 years convinced there must be something wrong with me since I could not believe what the fellowships were asking me to believe.

Then I gave up and realized that as long as I was rigorously honest in my self-examination, connected to something greater than myself, and dedicated to serving others, I could find wholeness. I think many find the same foundation I did in 12-step fellowships. But I did not find it there. The literature helped and gave me a vision for what my life could be. But I found too great a distance between the literature and the practice. Reading this site, I think it may be partially a geographical thing. In Florida, generally most meetings you go to 75% of people have less than a year, which I think sets up a dynamic that is not always helpful.

None of us can know what it is like to have an experience that is not ours. That is one of the wisest things you learn in a 12-step program.--that we cannot speak for each other, but only for ourselves.

Sharing our own experience rather than prescribing what others should do is the model advocated by the BB--and it is a good one. Why not share your own 1st step experience? It was the founder's insight that people learn through stories.

keithj

OTT, you post frequently about how you are not powerless over alcohol, and how you made a decision to not drink and were able to stick with that decision. Therefore, not powerless over alcohol, and no Step 1 experience.

You can call it whatever you want, but it's not the same thing as the person who comes into AA, and can't make that decision stick for the hundredth time. How can you possibly know what that experience is like, if you've never had it?

onlythetruth

Keith, I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to say here. I suspect it's a variation on the "you aren't a real alcoholic, so you don't understand" theme, am I right?

onlythetruth

Thank you, miamifella. Yes. What you're sharing is quite similar to my own experience, and you're right--of the things I did learn in AA, one of the most helpful was the little Shakespeare quote on the chips: "to thine own self be true". I too spent much time thinking something was wrong with me because I could not believe (despite great effort) what I was expected to believe. Because of this, I did a lot of pretending...until it got to the point where it felt I was living a lie. Living a lie drunk is not fun, but sober, it's torture. So like you, the quest for honesty, which I did learn in AA, ultimately led me away from the program.

Thank you for helping me see that. It is a good insight to have.

Terminally Unique

I don't think so, OTT. I've read keith's posts, and he does not strike me as naive in the least. Notice how he says that nobody has to go to AA, even though he undoubtedly knows perfectly well that people are routinely mandated to attend AA by the courts and professional licensing boards, or else. I think he simply does not like what you have to say, which is certainly fine. I don't like everything you have to say, either, but at least I'm forthright and honest about it, and I welcome your input regardless.

Zencat

Some thoughts on experiences.

I have had the experience with alcohol/drugs where I would drink when I did not intended to. I would drink more, drink longer and more often that I intended also.

One way to interpret this experience is that I am powerless over alcohol. Another way to view the same thing is to acknowledge I was in the grip of addiction and my brain was hijacked because of it. My powerless was more like unmanageably that could be corrected through a psyche change by way of cognitive and behavioral modification.

One experience shared by many can and often dose have different ways of comprehending it. factors like codependency levels, self-beliefs, attitudes both positive and negative, perspective, amount of self-reliance and a few more I'm sure can alter ones interpretation of common experiences.