onlythetruth

I just want to say what a wonderful thread this is. It is so refreshing to witness an exchange where people openly acknowledge the validity of different approaches to recovery.

Thanks, this makes my day!

michelle01

I'm not really involved in either program/model of recovery these days. Not fully, my main support has been a personal faith and CBT counseling. But I did find the AVRT flashcards helpful in early sobriety, I also attended a few AA meetings and agreed with many principles I heard there too.

I know that many people who aren't even associated with AA are put off by some of the anti-AA rhetoric in the AVRT model of recovery. And some suggest that perhaps it is better suited for those at an earlier stage of alcohol addiction.

I'm not exactly qualified to comment on AA. I found many things I heard about it difficult to come to grips with in my early recovery, though I would probably be more amenable to them now, and have learned personally the truth in some of their principles. It's a program that is supposed to be practiced, not just held in theory. If you have a good sponsor, you are taught the concepts well. If you take any single concept from the program, you can take it out of context. The effectiveness of some concepts may depend on how the individual chooses to apply them - particularly the 'powerless' theme.

In any program, you are going to meet people who you won't exactly get along with or instantly click with. Same perhaps with any group of people you encounter, there will be people at different points of recovery, and with their own flaws. But AA puts measures in place to maintain the integrity of their program itself. That I think is one of its good strengths.

Anyhow, there are different options available these days and I know its confusing at first navigating your way through the whole field. I am skeptical of any program that charges fees upfront while promising a quick fix solution. AA does well in its own field, which is treating alcoholism. Though I believe that there are people who may have valid secondary issues that may need to be addressed in addition to the alcoholism. I self medicated depression for a long time with alcohol, and I had the depression for a long time before I started abusing any alcohol/substances. So I chose a course of treatment that would address both my alcohol dependency which had become an issue in itself, and the mental health side of things. That's what seems to work for me, and so I stick to it.

wpainterw

Lenina: Your intuitive notion that the nature of the universe consists in a vibration happens to correspond to a very modern theory of cosmology which has received a large measure of acceptance. This is so called "string" theory that suggests that on a microcosmic level everything consists in countless tiny energy strings vibrating in a number of dimensions. The vibrations have been compared to those on a violin string.

W.

Terminally Unique

Would this include rehabs and chemical dependency counselors? They all charge 'fees' up-front.

michelle01

I have nothing against anything well backed up, just there are lots of programs and methods out there that make pretty big claims, and I don't really believe there are quick fix solutions out there, it all takes some personal work. The recovery industry is big these days, unfortunately it has its share of sharks looking out for vulnerable people, giving them false impressions, you need to carefully do research of options before making a choice. That is something for the individual to follow up on and I won't pursue it further here.

ru12

I mixed a lot of things to come up with what works for me. I made the decision last December that I wasn't going to drink again. Ever. I don't revisit that decision. I don't not drink one day at a time. I don't argue with my AV. I don't bother even identifying what it does or doesn't do. For me my sobriety is separate from everything else in my life. I don't drink ... no matter what.

isinganyway

#DEAD haha too true

ACT10Npack

I try to use a recovery program but never seem to find anything that work and made it worst. What it came down to me was to stop thinking about recovery and just live my life without alcohol and learn that I don't need to give in to bad behaviors or addiction to make me feel better. Life is better because of it or may I'm 30 and grew out of it. :-)

wpainterw

It's been awhile since the most recent post on this thread. In addition to what I've already said on it, and what others have said, I wonder whether some folks who use AVRT can also benefit from some of the resources and tools of AA, particularly in the early stages of recovery, when relapse is more of a risk. And do this without necessarily accepting all of the traditional AA dogma, or any committal to do all of the "steps", etc. From an AVRT perspective, the primary focus should be on the "beast" within and I agree with that. I also agree that this requires an alcoholic to take an active role in his or her recovery, not merely sit back and say that he or she has a "disease" and is "powerless" etc. But I also am aware that scientific research has indicated that the period just after alcohol has been withdrawn from the body is fraught with danger in that the neuron's uptake receptors have had to adapt to the alcohol over a long period and, when the alcohol is suddenly withdrawn the brain instinctively tries to get it back into the mix. Hence the withdrawal symptoms and, I submit, the enormous influence of the "beast" in the early recovery period. The beast is like an angry child screaming for its bottle. If this is so, then the companionship and support of other recovering alcoholics, the humor and light hearted atmosphere of some of the meetings, the lack of guilt, the hope which comes from seeing others recover, the telephone numbers one can call, all this can be enormously helpful in counteracting the enormous influence of the beast and reducing the risk of relapse? I've heard it said that Rational Recovery programs do not necessarily involve group meetings any more. To me this may be a mistake. I think meetings and comradeship are important, particularly in the early stages of recovery. It's like rock climbing. Sometimes it's better not to try it solo or without a rope. You still have to do the climbing, not just sit back and be "powerless" and expect others to pull you up the mountain, but it still helps to have others on the rope because, particularly in the early stages, the going can get pretty slippery, pretty scary.

W.

soberlicious

Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction speaks to this very directly. It's an interesting read. The author's opinions are not without controversy, but he makes some very valid points. I believe there are some inaccurate notions about addiction and recovery that are very pervasive in our society, but so deeply ingrained that they are accepted as truths.

I think reaching out to each other as humans is important...I would be very lonely without those I love in my life. When it comes to not drinking though, if I rely too heavily on others, then than makes my abstinence contingent on them...what happens if they are not around?

wpainterw

All I can say is from my own experience. I went to AA meetings for about eight or ten years. In the fifteen years that followed I rarely went to meetings and I didn't seem any the worse for that. And lots of AA stuff helped me. What's wrong with "One Day at a Time" "Easy Does It" "Don't try to change stuff you can't change", etc. etc. What's wrong with all that stuff? It's sure helped me. I work with some of that stuff every day.

W.

Anna

This will NOT turn into a debate, as per our Mandate.

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice.

soberlicious

I don't think there is anything "wrong" at all with that stuff, but I do understand that much of it was not effective for me, and for many others that I have met here and IRL. It's not a judgement at all for someone to give reasons why something does not work for them. If it works for you then it's not necessary to examine it. If someone finds otherwise, then they should be encouraged to find something they can use successfully.

soberlicious

My message to the newcomer is and always will be "You can do this. I believe in you."

Anna

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