The Really Scary Part-Getting Out of Denial
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Your welcome, W.
I've already read (some) of your posts, and threads, you've been on SR awhile, and so I know of you from your shares already.
Good to know you're thinking about the causes and effects of denial and bringing light to bear on those challenges.
I never looked on my own alcoholism and journey in sobriety through a lense of comparing myself to surviving soldiers from wars, such as WW2 for example, but I can understand your intended meaning about guilt. In my own past, guilt suffering was a huge imagined player in my getting drunk. I also struggled with dumping guilt in my early months in sobriety.
Its not for me to judge you. I'll take your expressed word for it that my concerns are over-the-top. I think someone with your length of sobriety experience knows when to call a spade a spade, you know? Good to know, and thanks for letting me know you appreciated my share.
Cheers!
I've already read (some) of your posts, and threads, you've been on SR awhile, and so I know of you from your shares already.
Good to know you're thinking about the causes and effects of denial and bringing light to bear on those challenges.
I never looked on my own alcoholism and journey in sobriety through a lense of comparing myself to surviving soldiers from wars, such as WW2 for example, but I can understand your intended meaning about guilt. In my own past, guilt suffering was a huge imagined player in my getting drunk. I also struggled with dumping guilt in my early months in sobriety.
Its not for me to judge you. I'll take your expressed word for it that my concerns are over-the-top. I think someone with your length of sobriety experience knows when to call a spade a spade, you know? Good to know, and thanks for letting me know you appreciated my share.
Cheers!
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
RobbyRobot:
Thanks so much. It is nice that we recovering alcoholics should be so concerned about one another. In another context I have said that at times I have felt like Coleridge's Ancient Mariner who, having gone on what might be called a spiritual journey, finally reached home, a safe harbor, his sufferings at an end and yet he cannot resist taking his friend by the arm and relating his tale. He is home now, safe and as happy as possible, but he can never be the same. And at the end of that piece I wrote about my journey there is a quote from Martin Luther King, "Free at last! Thank the Lord Almighty! I'm free at last!"
Every good wish to you my friend and fellow traveler. There may be more than one path up Mt. Fuji...
W.
Thanks so much. It is nice that we recovering alcoholics should be so concerned about one another. In another context I have said that at times I have felt like Coleridge's Ancient Mariner who, having gone on what might be called a spiritual journey, finally reached home, a safe harbor, his sufferings at an end and yet he cannot resist taking his friend by the arm and relating his tale. He is home now, safe and as happy as possible, but he can never be the same. And at the end of that piece I wrote about my journey there is a quote from Martin Luther King, "Free at last! Thank the Lord Almighty! I'm free at last!"
Every good wish to you my friend and fellow traveler. There may be more than one path up Mt. Fuji...
W.
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Originally Posted by Rotinaj 
I'm aware that i'm an alcoholic. I've been drinking on a regular basis for years. I quit drinking for one full week and i've never been more depressed in my life. I came to the realization that alcohol was all i had left. How do i fix this?
W.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,279
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Sure, in the early beginning fear of sobriety, fear of alcoholism, fear of living and dying, fears of getting on in our day, etc. are indeed a healthy experience as we mature into our sober lives.
I'm a true recovered alcoholic, and why should I hold on to any shred of fear exactly? Its certainly not fear that keeps me sober. Fears weaken me, and steal and erode my faith away. The only good worth fear has in my life is to ignite and bring to life my experience of courage and bravery in the face of my fears.
You of course can speak for yourself, but as for this truly recovered alcoholic it is not fear which keeps me sober. Spirituality in spite of my fears, surpassing my fears, overwhelming my fears, those experiences keep me sober, as do other life experiences and lessons learned as well too.
Hey, so how do magnets work?
I'm a true recovered alcoholic, and why should I hold on to any shred of fear exactly? Its certainly not fear that keeps me sober. Fears weaken me, and steal and erode my faith away. The only good worth fear has in my life is to ignite and bring to life my experience of courage and bravery in the face of my fears.
You of course can speak for yourself, but as for this truly recovered alcoholic it is not fear which keeps me sober. Spirituality in spite of my fears, surpassing my fears, overwhelming my fears, those experiences keep me sober, as do other life experiences and lessons learned as well too.
Hey, so how do magnets work?
Congrats on all of the things you have overcome & learned to live with in your life and most importantly your sobriety & happiness. Thank you for sharing your journey with us, it is very inspiring.
Sincerely ~ NB
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 209,178
Hi Rotinaj
Welcome to SR
You'll get more response if you start your own thread - just hit the big blue new thread button on the top left hand side of the page here....
Newcomers to Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
as for how to fix it - support is important I think and coming here is a great start
D
Welcome to SR
You'll get more response if you start your own thread - just hit the big blue new thread button on the top left hand side of the page here....
Newcomers to Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
as for how to fix it - support is important I think and coming here is a great start
D
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
RobbyRobot: I just want you to know that I've reread your posts and want to say how much I admire you for dealing so well with all you've been through. You must have a very powerful higher power. You are blessed. You and I have reached a similar place- you perhaps through a more conventional Christian approach than I. But what you must feel and believe in is there for me too, with every sunset, each poem that I have loved, the music which is dear to me. I have seen it in the faces, in the eyes of those I have loved, some of whom have vanished. I see it in the eyes of my dog as he offers up his toys to me. It is all there. An alternate reality which cries out for our awareness. And it is this, and perhaps the spirit of some vanished friend who, renouncing heaven for awhile, came back to keep me from the precipice into which i might have fallen.
I have no fear now, but as I have said I have memories and from these and from what I know now, I should have been more fearful then, less confident of my recovery. I am confident that I will never drink again but I say this- that without the help I have received I would have been lost and for this I am truly grateful.
W.
I have no fear now, but as I have said I have memories and from these and from what I know now, I should have been more fearful then, less confident of my recovery. I am confident that I will never drink again but I say this- that without the help I have received I would have been lost and for this I am truly grateful.
W.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
W and NewBeginning,
I appreciate your kind words, thank you, friends.
I do have a unique powerful understanding of my higher power, and I only expect my relationship with my HP to yet grow and mature as the years continue to move me forward. My Christian beliefs and background have little meaning in relationship with my sober living. Christianity is something I share as a common classic belief with billions of others, while my higher power relationship and experiences are only for me and me alone. My Christianity is enhanced by my sober spiritual life, and not the other way around. Better for me to be a sober drunk rather than a drunk Christian, so to speak.
For all my sufferings, I've come to see and embrace the silver lining in each challenge before me, and with that comes the humility of knowing that each of us have the same personal challenges before us, although mine maybe somewhat more obvious in a physical manner than is general, we all have our own relative highest mountains and darkest abyss within us, and so to each of us, they are the highest and the deepest in all the universe, respectively, so we share equalities amongst ourselves is my understanding.
I appreciate that my most difficult days are no more difficult that the next guys most difficult days, and so I know equality exists as an essence and not simply as an idea in justice and morality. I too am inspired by other members experiences here in SR, as well as in my f2f life, even as I realize I am an inspiration for others in my turn. Life is what we make of it, and the greatest gift we can give to others is to live a well lived life that we share generously with others. None of us are suited to be islands in the vast seas of humanity, even though loneliness can be comforting at times, and isolating can be an oasis of sorts hidden away from the noise of life, we are at our best when we both love others and are loved by others. When drunk of course, love is meaningless to me. Spiritual Sobriety invites me to be lovable and to love others as I love myself.
My experiences of fear for me has always been my greatest challenge, and so I'm intimately involved with living in the spirit of having a practical resolution in answer to my fears. With that understanding I'm grateful for the illness which is my alcoholism for otherwise I would not have the depth of experience I enjoy and can now earnestly bring to bear against my fears. Truly spoken, as shared by Roosevelt in March of 1933 - "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." I'm a great believer of that powerful motto.
I am touched by your simple examples of the discovery of love in the everyday experiences of your day to day life, W. Thanks for the words from your heart shared in this thread. I'm glad you are not at the mercy of your fears, and you understand and embrace that the everlasting quality of true spiritual sobriety cannot be forsaken, lost, or otherwise destroyed by having the worst of possible and darkest days. Sobriety is not a fragile experience that is easily overtaken by our misfortunes in any day of hardship and sorrow. In sobriety we are blessed. Your in a good place W, and thats a beautiful thing, yes?
Yeah, NewBeginning, awesome for sure. Absolutely awesome, as you know too, is the sober spiritual life! YAY!!
I appreciate your kind words, thank you, friends.
I do have a unique powerful understanding of my higher power, and I only expect my relationship with my HP to yet grow and mature as the years continue to move me forward. My Christian beliefs and background have little meaning in relationship with my sober living. Christianity is something I share as a common classic belief with billions of others, while my higher power relationship and experiences are only for me and me alone. My Christianity is enhanced by my sober spiritual life, and not the other way around. Better for me to be a sober drunk rather than a drunk Christian, so to speak.
For all my sufferings, I've come to see and embrace the silver lining in each challenge before me, and with that comes the humility of knowing that each of us have the same personal challenges before us, although mine maybe somewhat more obvious in a physical manner than is general, we all have our own relative highest mountains and darkest abyss within us, and so to each of us, they are the highest and the deepest in all the universe, respectively, so we share equalities amongst ourselves is my understanding.
I appreciate that my most difficult days are no more difficult that the next guys most difficult days, and so I know equality exists as an essence and not simply as an idea in justice and morality. I too am inspired by other members experiences here in SR, as well as in my f2f life, even as I realize I am an inspiration for others in my turn. Life is what we make of it, and the greatest gift we can give to others is to live a well lived life that we share generously with others. None of us are suited to be islands in the vast seas of humanity, even though loneliness can be comforting at times, and isolating can be an oasis of sorts hidden away from the noise of life, we are at our best when we both love others and are loved by others. When drunk of course, love is meaningless to me. Spiritual Sobriety invites me to be lovable and to love others as I love myself.
My experiences of fear for me has always been my greatest challenge, and so I'm intimately involved with living in the spirit of having a practical resolution in answer to my fears. With that understanding I'm grateful for the illness which is my alcoholism for otherwise I would not have the depth of experience I enjoy and can now earnestly bring to bear against my fears. Truly spoken, as shared by Roosevelt in March of 1933 - "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." I'm a great believer of that powerful motto.
I am touched by your simple examples of the discovery of love in the everyday experiences of your day to day life, W. Thanks for the words from your heart shared in this thread. I'm glad you are not at the mercy of your fears, and you understand and embrace that the everlasting quality of true spiritual sobriety cannot be forsaken, lost, or otherwise destroyed by having the worst of possible and darkest days. Sobriety is not a fragile experience that is easily overtaken by our misfortunes in any day of hardship and sorrow. In sobriety we are blessed. Your in a good place W, and thats a beautiful thing, yes?
Yeah, NewBeginning, awesome for sure. Absolutely awesome, as you know too, is the sober spiritual life! YAY!!
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That's nice, RobbyRobot: I must admit that I have never been a conventional person. That is I doubt that I would qualify as a Christian in the ordinarily accepted sense if I believe also that I am in part a Buddhist, in part of believer in the Tao, or in some of the teachings of Islam. As I grow older I sense increasingly a separate spiritual reality coexistent with our phenomenal world. I think I have said this before but I shall say it again. A separate reality, accessible at times by genius and also ordinary mortals, often inspired by great prophets and teachers who have somehow been able to open a window into that other world. And I sense that the Buddhists may be correct in thinking that there are some who may renounce an entry into Nirvana in order to return to help others, still lost in darkness. I believe that some persons in my family who have been gone now for 40 years or so may have in some way been there to help me. Otherwise I might not have survived.
Are these fanciful thoughts? Nothing more than poetic visions? All that we know is that they have been sensed by others for thousands of years and today we are being told by some cosmologists of parallel universes, infinite in number. If reality is so strange, so redundant then is a belief in a coexisting spiritual world nothing but a poetic fancy?
One thing is certain, we shall find out, find out when we die. And, if we are wrong, if there is nothing there, is that something to fear or is it enough to have lived, to have survived, to have returned from the abyss, to find happiness, to have shared that with others. For however brief a time to have lived in the sunlight...
If I have repeated myself is it any different than a monk in some remote land saying a mantra over and over? If God should choose to repeat himself in multitudes of parallel universes then perhaps I may be forgiven an occasional redundancy.
W.
Are these fanciful thoughts? Nothing more than poetic visions? All that we know is that they have been sensed by others for thousands of years and today we are being told by some cosmologists of parallel universes, infinite in number. If reality is so strange, so redundant then is a belief in a coexisting spiritual world nothing but a poetic fancy?
One thing is certain, we shall find out, find out when we die. And, if we are wrong, if there is nothing there, is that something to fear or is it enough to have lived, to have survived, to have returned from the abyss, to find happiness, to have shared that with others. For however brief a time to have lived in the sunlight...
If I have repeated myself is it any different than a monk in some remote land saying a mantra over and over? If God should choose to repeat himself in multitudes of parallel universes then perhaps I may be forgiven an occasional redundancy.
W.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
I would think you could never be sure. In reality it is the people who are able to drink socially and reasonably are the ones with the peace of mind. Because they are not struggling with anything. They are just living. The one who permanently gives up something that he/she feels they "love" for lack of a better term is the one with the struggle. I have a friend from high school who is entirely and completely sober for 15 years now. He WAS definately a major problem drinker, and should never touch alcohol again ever. But he has an interesting approach. He basically says to me that he "reserves the right to drink again at some point, if he feels like it." Now I now, he NEVER should. And I believe that he knows this as well, and actually won't do it. But for some reason, in his case, it seems to me that having a "I reserve to the right to drink if I want at some point" position actually helps him. I have other friends that used to drink 6 to 12 beers per night, every day in their 20s when they first got out of college. They realized they had a problem, and had to do something. BUT they simply were not going to give it up forever. In their cases they made a hard rule that they would only drink alcohol on Friday or Saturday night, sometimes both but not always. They would have as many as 6 beers but only those nights. Now, unless they are lying to me, they have been able to do that for close to 20 years now. Me, I am kind of a mess. I go years (even ten years at one point) without ANY drop of alcohol. Then I starting drinking and I drink 6 beers every day for years, then I quit for 12 days, start again, etc. Over and Over and Over....
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In reality it is the people who are able to drink socially and reasonably are the ones with the peace of mind. Because they are not struggling with anything. They are just living. The one who permanently gives up something that he/she feels they "love" for lack of a better term is the one with the struggle.
I've moved on from a bad, toxic, relationship I had for 20 years. I've learned a lot of things and grown, I've been given many gifts in my recovery, not the least of which is a lasting joy and a sense of peace in my life no matter what might happen on any given day.
I'm comfortable with how I am and I can look at myself in the eyes in the mirror again.
My life is the best it's ever been. I have peace of mind, I'm not struggling with anything.
And all I had to do was give up drinking
I'm not missing drinking - in any way shape or form.
I hope you'll decide to give yourself the chance to see that perspectives can change LSZ.
D
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LSZ: There was a time, years ago, when I could have written just as you have. As you say "over and over and over". "Giving it up (but temporarily!)" then taking it up again. Over and over and over. Around and around and around for year after year.
If you think this is O.K., then why do you say you're a "mess"? Unless you are different from the rest of us the illness will progress...
W.
If you think this is O.K., then why do you say you're a "mess"? Unless you are different from the rest of us the illness will progress...
W.
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